200R4 update

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darndart said:
Any paticular reason you chose the 200R4 over the 700R4?
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The 200R4 is smaller then the 700R4, 727, and 904. This means you can install the 200R4 without have to cut the tranny tunnel (only mod need so far is extending the transmission mount, the bolt in one to the car, closer to the engine). However the 700R4 (are really expensive to rebuild) is much like the 727 and needs more horsepower to power then the 200R4. The 200R4 is like the 904 takes much less hp to power but needs to be built up internally to take a bunch of horsepower. I've personnaly seen/know of a 87 Grand National that has 1300HP drag car with a 200R4 (which has been built up) and live quite nicely in that car. Plus the 700R4 is bigger then the 200R4 and would need tranny tunnel cutting inorder to make it fit and at that point, you might as well find a new wrecked Camaro SS, pull the 6-speed Auto (or 6 speed manual) and install it. The 200R4 is a great way to gain an overdrive tranny/gear without doing tranny tunnel surgery.
 
Good luck with the install,let us know any issues you run into.You know how some of us like to help figure problems out.Been there/done that kinda things.:D
 
Just at first glance I would say there is not enough room in the tunnel. If it clears, it won't be by much. The crossmember will have to come out and be replaced, no question. It is a very short piece and it will have made and moved a bit rearward and maybe a bit down. I will know more in a couple days.
 
Today was the big day. I got stuck working the front counter so my friend Tom did most (all) of the work. I got back to help when I could which wasn't often. He pulled the motor and I took pictures for the most part. Everything came out pretty smoothly - no problems. We bolted the motor, adapter plate and 200R4 together on the floor as a test fit. Thus begins problem #1. One of the starter bolts that is pressed into the adapter plate interferes with the transmission and it would not mount flat to the adapter. It was close, but no dice. We didn't want to grind a bit off the stud and have less strength to mount the starter, so we ground off a bit of the bell housing. It wasn't much, it overlapped about 1/8 inch. The left bottom mounting hole does not line up with the hole in the block and will have to be drilled. There are two transmission mounting holes at the top that have no holes or studs to mount to the plate. Probably doesn't need them, but I'm going to drill them and bolt it on anyway. Can't hurt. We did mark the adapter plate so we can cut it more to shape. We wanted to try a first test fit, but the square, uncut adapter plate is 1 1/2 inches wider than the torsion bars, so it won't fit until we cut it. It is being cut tonight and hopefully the initial test fit will be tomorrow. Here are the pics so far.

Car on hoist, and my new dual snorkel roof scoop.
View attachment Car on hoist.jpg
View attachment New roof scoop.jpg

Engine disassembly before removal.
View attachment Engine disassembly - front.jpg
View attachment Engine disassembly - front 1.jpg
View attachment Engine teardown.jpg
View attachment Under car disassembly.jpg

A close up of my Hooker Competition Skid Plates.
View attachment Aftermarket skid plates.jpg

Looking up into empty engine compartment, and Tom sleeping on the job.
View attachment Looking up into engine compartment.jpg
View attachment Tom sleeping on the job.jpg
 
Here's a few more.

Motor and transmission coming out.
View attachment Motor and trans coming out.jpg
View attachment 318 and 904 out of car.jpg

Motor with adapter plate.
View attachment Motor with adapter plate.jpg

Motor and tranny test fitting.
View attachment Motor and tranny with adapter.jpg

Transmission hitting stud.
View attachment Transmission hit starter stud.jpg

Size difference - sorry not side by side. 200R4 shorter, but wider at the rear. That is where the challenge of fitting the tunnel will be an issue. The centerlines of the transmissions are way different.
View attachment 904 transmission.jpg
View attachment 200R4.jpg
 
I'm watching very intently here! From the pictures I got from wilcap, I think that issue is this with the tci version of the adaptor.
 
I guess they couldn't be bothered to cut down that adapter plate any before selling it. Cheese and rice that's a lot of extra material.
 
I would guess they did that in case you wanted to use it in a race/ hotrod application. Seems to me for the money that stuff cost, they could have a "motor plate" and a "street" version all right.
 
Wildcap does offer, at least on there site, the adapter that can be used as a midplate as well as one that is not intended to be....looks like you might have gotten the one intended as a mid plate.....
 
Wilcap was well over $100 more. I ordered it through Art Carr and didn't know I would be getting this type from TCI. It's not a real big deal. I am a little worried about the strength of the adapter near the starter when I cut it down. I think we are going to make a starter brace to strengthen it. We are discussing ways to make the existing crossmember work, but I think the tail of the 200R4 is so wide and fat compared to the 904 that if it fits at all it will not fit with that crossmember. We talked about the need for flexibility from motor torque, but I am using a torque strap so that will be minimized. I'm not sure if Tom will get here today. He cut the adapter last night. I am going to clean things up, put on the Softseal kit while it's in a warm shop and finally get sealed doors and trunk, and probably put on the front cross drilled rotors so they match the rear. Hopefully Tom will come down after church and we can try a test fitting and see how everything lines up.
 
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It may be a little more money, but it looks a bunch nicer than a flat, square piece of aluminum. Looks like it's worth every penny. Looks like this type runs $550 here:

http://www.riley-auto.com/ADAPTERS.html

And the TCI is $471.38 here:

http://www.race-mart.com/TCI-TCI-149160.html

I think the Wilcap is $80 nicer.
 
rednesss said:
318350SM.JPG


It may be a little more money, but it looks a bunch nicer than a flat, square piece of aluminum. Looks like it's worth every penny. Looks like this type runs $550 here:

http://www.riley-auto.com/ADAPTERS.html

And the TCI is $471.38 here:

http://www.race-mart.com/TCI-TCI-149160.html

I think the Wilcap is $80 nicer.
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First of all, I ordered everything I needed from Art Carr and didn't know I would be getting this style. Cutting it down to the shape I want isn't hard. I paid $375 for my adapter through Art Carr. That is $175 difference and I only had to shoot some paint for an outline and spend 20 minutes cutting. That's $175 extra I can put into something useful, like the new driveshaft of the new exhaust. Had I known I needed to cut, would I have done it differently? Maybe. But I'm not going to ***** about it now because it is a pretty minor detail. Since when has anything been perfect or gone the way we want on our cars? We drive Mopars. We are born to suffer. The end result is worth it.
 
Nope, we always need to compromise since we own Mopars and not Chevy's

Why I'm keeping my 904 trans for the time being, overdrive would be great but it all adds up and its too much for me, lol

Once the trans-adapter is all install I doubt it be very noticeable, this job isn't cheap, why make it even more expensive

Me, I would try to make homemade adapter--then again I'm not doing sh*t right now, lol

Hope this pays off for you, the higher gas prices go, the more sense it makes
 
This makes more sense to do if your building the car the first time and don't have a tranny yet or if the tranny you have currently is need of a rebuild
 
inkjunkie said:
If it were easy would it be any fun??
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No, but right now it's not fun or easy. I am leaving the shop now. When I get home I will post pics of the 408 and 200R4 in place with the beautifully cut down adapter plate. Then I will show where the fat *** tail of the 200R4 hits the upper crossmember and show you what I plan to do about it and maybe get different opinions. Right now I am not real happy but I did get all the body seals on and also the front cross drilled rotors so they match the rear. Stay tuned!
 
Mopar to ya said:
We drive Mopars. We are born to suffer. The end result is worth it.
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Amen to that. I'm really interested in your install as I'm weighing doing this or buying a Gear Vendors unit. I think I'd rather swap tranny's since a new Gear Vendors is $3,000+. But tunnel surgery doesn't sound too fun either. I was hoping you'd have room in there.
 
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