20s for the Demon - how low can I go? (big wheel haters don't look)

[valentino automotive]

I think its going to look Sick! when its done man. You might want to think about bagging it depending on your road conditions you live in. 20 can take a beating on the steering components and ball joints. plus you will be surprised how it handles and how smooth the ride can be.

 

[rjsjea]

Hey, I just realized your Demon was one that I looked at while obsessing over the wheel and tire choice. Yours looks so good to me it had a big impact on my decision. Is that the same car in the thread "couple cool pics" with different wheels?

IIRC you're using 255 35 18 with 8" rim and 345 30 19 on 12" rim (I've pored over your thread). Your build is outstanding, way beyond my plans.

I'm planning 18s on the front, and considering a 225/40 which is 25" tall.

.

Same wheels/sizes.....they are just powdercoated now, and covered in tape.

Good luck on the build, stay patient with it.

 

[jefflock]

I kicked around going with 17's on my 68 Dart GTS. Only thing that stopped me was that I couldn't get a Mickey drag radial that I thought would work on the rear.
Thanks for the not toasting your wires tip.

 

[mullinax95]

Drop down to 18s and you will be fine. 20s get into "Yo man" category. Whatever makes you happy however.

 

[Idaho]

I think its going to look Sick! when its done man. You might want to think about bagging it depending on your road conditions you live in. 20 can take a beating on the steering components and ball joints. plus you will be surprised how it handles and how smooth the ride can be.

Hmmm, I assume you're talking about air bag suspension on the front. Does that requires complete aftermarket K member replacement? I'll have 18s, not 20s on the front.

Same wheels/sizes.....they are just powdercoated now, and covered in tape.

Good luck on the build, stay patient with it.

I get it. Thanks. I can obsess and become frustrated. I find the choices are the most difficult part. Working is easy.

dart vader
Dart vader is my build thread. I only have the front mocked um rite now. My four link hasnt arrived yet and there is some other things i need to do b4 i do that. You can see thr 18's i used for mock up in front. It will prob come up an inch in the front. Its at 4.5in of clrarence under front frame rails.

Thanks! Very helpful. Checked out your thread and will be following.

kicked around going with 17's on my 68 Dart GTS. Only thing that stopped me was that I couldn't get a Mickey drag radial that I thought would work on the rear.
Thanks for the not toasting your wires tip.

You're welcome. I've got pans waiting to be welded in too. The plasma sure helps with these jobs. I was using a torch when I toasted the wires and have since purchased a plasma. Great for this tubbing work.

Drop down to 18s and you will be fine. 20s get into "Yo man" category. Whatever makes you happy however.

Here's a couple shots of cars that gave me inspiration. Perhaps you'll agree, with a somewhat more old school wheel its not quite so "Yo man". The second is owned by Ma Snart on this site. Hope he doesn't mind me showing off his beauty. His does not shout "Yo man" to my thinking at all. Both combine 20s and 18s and look very fine to me.

 

[72BBSwinger]

I didnt think your question was "useless" it was just a waste since you are kinda in unchartered territory with that much wheel and tire on this forum so you are gonna have to basically figure it out and let everyone else know what works. My junk is on 18s....

 

[HemiDenny]

What diameter tire you plan on the front? Depending on taste, your front to rear proportion may be odd (tall rears - short fronts). The front is only going to take 24-25.5" tall tire.

excellant point from a "been there" member

big or small...I luv em all!...but that proportion thingy is kinda important when it comes to the overall look

 

[Idaho]

I didnt think your question was "useless" it was just a waste since you are kinda in unchartered territory with that much wheel and tire on this forum so you are gonna have to basically figure it out and let everyone else know what works. My junk is on 18s....

Just razzin you a bit. Your junk looks decent. Hope my junk turns out as well. I suspect your stance could work for me, maybe a little lower in the front. Mind giving out your tire sizes, and do you know your K member and rear frame clearances?

Edit: found it on your thread (275/35/18 front and 335/30/18 rear). Those are some beefy fronts - surprised they fit with stock front end. The 225/40 I was thinking of is 1/2" shorter at 25". I may need something taller unless I can go a bit lower.

excellant point from a "been there" member

big or small...I luv em all!...but that proportion thingy is kinda important when it comes to the overall look

Point taken, will consider. I have not purchased anything yet. I plan to buy one front and one rear tire for mock up and return/change if necessary.

Still hoping for feedback on leaf spring travel - can't go forward with tubbing until I get that established. K-member height for header clearance also factors into my rear stance and tubbing plans.

 

[valentino automotive]

Yes the front and rear. with 20. You can get away with it with after market upper control arms and reinforce the shock towers.

 

[blown71duster]

I think if you were going to run 20's on the back then 19's would look better in the front . Here is a chevelle with 20s and 19's I think if you had the right stance like this it could look great !

 

[rjsjea]

I'd do coil overs or an air ride set up at the ride height your looking for. Easier to make finite adjustments since your pushing the limits on fitment. Your probably going to look at notching the rear rails as your building your tubs.

 

[Idaho]

I think if you were going to run 20's on the back then 19's would look better in the front . Here is a chevelle with 20s and 19's I think if you had the right stance like this it could look great !

That is a sweet looking car. I'm finding the big wheels somewhat intoxicating. Hope I don't completely lose my senses

rjsjea I'd do coil overs or an air ride set up at the ride height your looking for. Easier to make finite adjustments since your pushing the limits on fitment. Your probably going to look at notching the rear rails as your building your tubs.

If I can fabricate something without huge cash layout it could happen. Excuse my ignorance... Not sure what frame notching is about.

 

[rjsjea]

Tucking the wheels that high in the tub will bring your axle tubes right up to the frame rails. On a hard corner or bump The axle tube will hit

 

[Idaho]

I see what you're getting at. Notching a frame for that does not seem like a great idea. I thought maybe you were referring to the relocation of springs which I do have planned. I figured on assembling the diff, springs wheels and tires during the process to get the positioning just right. I'll be measuring for travel. I'm reading about progressive bump stops.

 

[swisswill]

Tucking that much tire is going to wreak havoc depending how low you go. I'm running 18's/19's, 5" ground clearance to the rocker and a stock tube wouldn't even come close to fitting my 345/30's in the rear. Don't even think about the front. Definitely can not go too low without losing the front inner fenders and raising the wheel tubs in the rear. Best thing to do, set it on the ground at the ride height you want, test fit the wheels and see what you need to do to make it work. You should plan for at least 3" of compression, plus an extra 1/2" or so clearance. Coil-overs or air can make setting ride height easier, and using an RMS kit or HemiDenny's front end kit can make it easier on the inner fenders by eliminating the need to mount the shocks there. Proportion will be key for 20's in the rear and I would say, like others, no smaller than 19 up front. Can be done and done well, but will take some planning. I have to say though, I'm surprised at how well I like that wheel in there. I have to keep looking at that wheel, looks REAL tough. I like it!

Here is where I'm at with my setup.

 

[blown71duster]

Here is a pic of a duster with 20's on the rear and 18's up front. I think 19's would look better up front .Or run 19's rear with the front 18's. JMO though.

 

[johnparts]

I'm running a 285/40/20 and I'm slammed to the gound. if your gonna go low I would run a Hemidenny superslammer K Member up front and I would recommend airbags otherwise you are not gonna make it into most driveways.

 

[dodge71demon]

LOL I just knew the big wheel haters would come calling.

ocdart, the finger was just for you (kidding).

Hotlines, I'm totally in that mode. In fact I wasn't expecting to go so big in fact I was planning 15" steelies with white letter tires but couldn't find a wide enough white letter tire. So I went looking, saw a Chevelle that looked killer with 20s and 18s, decided to try the look and it got to me.

72BBSwinger thanks for good advice on my useless question
Coilovers crossed my mind as a way to reduce rear travel but I don't know enough about it. Something to reasearch I guess.

Cody, do you have a build thread? I'd like to see what you're doing.

Can I join the haters club?
But I'm an old man

 

[Idaho]

Tucking that much tire is going to wreak havoc depending how low you go. I'm running 18's/19's, 5" ground clearance to the rocker and a stock tube wouldn't even come close to fitting my 345/30's in the rear. Don't even think about the front. Definitely can not go too low without losing the front inner fenders and raising the wheel tubs in the rear. Best thing to do, set it on the ground at the ride height you want, test fit the wheels and see what you need to do to make it work. You should plan for at least 3" of compression, plus an extra 1/2" or so clearance. Coil-overs or air can make setting ride height easier, and using an RMS kit or HemiDenny's front end kit can make it easier on the inner fenders by eliminating the need to mount the shocks there. Proportion will be key for 20's in the rear and I would say, like others, no smaller than 19 up front. Can be done and done well, but will take some planning. I have to say though, I'm surprised at how well I like that wheel in there. I have to keep looking at that wheel, looks REAL tough. I like it!

Here is where I'm at with my setup.

That's some helpful input. If you compare, you are way lower than where I placed that wheel. Look at the wheel nuts, I'm maybe 3 to 4" higher. I kinda think people see it as lower than it really is. Love how you got the front down. I can be happy with less than that. My plan, for now at least is to see what I can do with leaf springs and factory front susp. Not sure yet but I think I can do something that makes me smile without gettin into mega bucks. I'll scale back from 20s if I decide it's not feasable.

blown71duster Here is a pic of a duster with 20's on the rear and 18's up front. I think 19's would look better up front .Or run 19's rear with the front 18's. JMO though.

Thanks, that's the first I've seen with 20s on a Duster/Demon. I'd want the front an inch or two lower. If possible... Any chance you know more about the suspension on that car???

johnparts I'm running a 285/40/20 and I'm slammed to the gound. if your gonna go low I would run a Hemidenny superslammer K Member up front and I would recommend airbags otherwise you are not gonna make it into most driveways.

I'd love to see pics. I'll search your threads later.

Can I join the haters club?
But I'm an old man

By all means. I've got some gray hair too. Not much anymore.

 

[mullinax95]

Idaho

I took some pictures at work today for you. I've got to upload them first and all that good stuff.

 

[cody.bourgeois]

you can't fit a shock wave air ride with his kit with out frame mods and moving the track width. i have tried with a double convuluted bag. it will not clear. you would need a wider front track to work like the Alterkation but then you have to chop it up and weld it in to get as low as a Denny k member. i dont know about u but if i spent $4000 on the alterkation then have to mod it, its really not worthnit. A 104 shockwave may work out on dennys k member. if the 8000's would lift the car (i dont see y not) it would be the way to go.???? i may get one to check and see how it fits... all in all if you tucking rim and ultra low with coilovers and still can turn with the right wheel the car will be bad ***.

 

[mullinax95]

Ok this is a Nova we are working on at the shop. We're doing the interior work and glass. It has 20s on the rear and 18s on the front. The car has air bag suspension on it and the first pics is with it lifted then towards the bottom it is with it lowered (parked). This is a high end build here going on. Much money has been sank in her.

Now I like the way this car sits with the 20s on the rear and 18s up front. I don't think it would look as good with 20s all the way around. To me it wouldn't what you think?

 

[cody.bourgeois]

thats sex rite there....

word of advise--- Please take that sander on the back deck and put it in the car, wouldnt want it to fall and scratch the paint:banghead:

Ok this is a Nova we are working on at the shop. We're doing the interior work and glass. It has 20s on the rear and 18s on the front. The car has air bag suspension on it and the first pics is with it lifted then towards the bottom it is with it lowered (parked). This is a high end build here going on. Much money has been sank in her.

Now I like the way this car sits with the 20s on the rear and 18s up front. I don't think it would look as good with 20s all the way around. To me it wouldn't what you think?

 

[Idaho]

Absolutely beautiful. Those are the wheels im looking at but with black centers (Boss 338 or Coys).
I have to see on this car to be sure but I think 20s and 18s go well together. They certainly do on that car, and others I've seen. Thanks for posting these. Definitely more inspiration. I have no thoughts of anything that trick but hope I can pull something off on a budget.

 

[swisswill]

you can't fit a shock wave air ride with his kit with out frame mods and moving the track width. i have tried with a double convuluted bag. it will not clear. you would need a wider front track to work like the Alterkation but then you have to chop it up and weld it in to get as low as a Denny k member. i dont know about u but if i spent $4000 on the alterkation then have to mod it, its really not worthnit. A 104 shockwave may work out on dennys k member. if the 8000's would lift the car (i dont see y not) it would be the way to go.???? i may get one to check and see how it fits... all in all if you tucking rim and ultra low with coilovers and still can turn with the right wheel the car will be bad ***.

I haven't looked closely at Denny's k member or control arms enough to know, but one option to make an air bag work "could" be to lower the mount in the LCA. I don't have a good picture on photobucket but I dropped my mount between the two tubes on the LCA which keeps the top of the shockwave from "trying" to squeeze through the upper control arm. Another option "could" be, to pull the lower mount in closer to the chassis, making the shockwave as vertical as possible, while using the shortest shock RideTech has. By pulling the bottom mount in, you still maintain wheel/suspension travel but would want to calculate exactly how much. Can then locate bumpstops to ensure the shocks do not bottom out on compression, though they now have internal bumpstops. RideTech recommends a total of 5" of travel, 3" compression, 2" extension. A final option "could" be, to invert the shockwave and use there external level sensors rather than internal. This "should" keep the convoluted bag below the UCA so just the shock comes through.

In terms of which bag, a double convoluted is necessary up front given the weight of the engine. A rolling sleeve bag is not sufficient. Per RideTech's encouragement, I'm even using a double convoluted bag in back to account for the added weight of my chassis and the IRS center section being fixed to the chassis. Based on estimated weights, it shouldn't be necessary, but RT preferred it to be on the safe side.

This pic isn't the best at demonstrating what I'm talking about by lowering the mount in the LCA, but you can see the shockwave does not come through the UCA.