3 holes for a Swinger trunk emblem?

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Here is another 71 non Swinger deck lid.

20200923_093541.jpg
 
In the event I have to drill holes and correct the lid emblem situation, can anyone tell me if the lid needs access holes to line up with the studs for nuts or do I just push those studs in with the plastic sleeves for the two "Dart" and "Swinger" emblems?
 
moparmarks said:
Here is another 71 non Swinger deck lid.

View attachment 1715599743
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The the holes are for the "Dodge" emblem as mentioned before. The measurements confirmed it

I did some straightening on the mounting flange, which is behind the bumper, for that side below the trunk for the rear valance. Maybe there was a collision? It must have been replaced at some point. The only other possibility is that Dodge assembled it with "Dodge" only but the consensus seems to be that the trunk should have the two emblems so I will rectify it.

Thanks for all the responses and patience with a first time A Body man.

If anyone can tell me a drill size that worked for them that would be great.

I would also like to know if the emblems push in or I need access for nuts from the inside.

Thanks again.
 
So it looks like the swinger emblem was used on the 70's. I have an unmolested original 71 here and it has only the dodge emblem as seen in post #10.
 
Just to add to the information, the original Dodge cursive emblem on the trunk in 1970 is identical to the one on the hood EXCEPT THAT IT HAS 2 POSTS none of which are in the same place as the 4 posts on the hood emblem. I'm sure many have ghosted their tired original emblems onto the lid with primer and closed the old holes and drilled new ones to match the 4 post hood emblem - once in place no one would ever know.
trunk and hood emblems
DSC00798.JPG


original trunk emblem
DSC00799.JPG


4 post hood emblem
DSC00800.JPG


SEALER AROUND THE POSTS - YOU DON'T WANT WATER SEEPING INTO THAT PROBLEMATIC BOTTOM TRUNK LID SEAM!!!
 
str12-340 said:
Just to add to the information, the original Dodge cursive emblem on the trunk in 1970 is identical to the one on the hood EXCEPT THAT IT HAS 2 POSTS none of which are in the same place as the 4 posts on the hood emblem. I'm sure many have ghosted their tired original emblems onto the lid with primer and closed the old holes and drilled new ones to match the 4 post hood emblem - once in place no one would ever know.
trunk and hood emblems
View attachment 1715600066

original trunk emblem
View attachment 1715600067

4 post hood emblem
View attachment 1715600068

SEALER AROUND THE POSTS - YOU DON'T WANT WATER SEEPING INTO THAT PROBLEMATIC BOTTOM TRUNK LID SEAM!!!
Click to expand...
Yep

20200923_093316.jpg


20200923_093328.jpg
 
Dicer said:
70 Dart Swinger trunk lid. I used barrel clips to install.

View attachment 1715599987
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This is a great help.

I am going to make templates for both the quarter panel and trunk hole locations. The template will start with a new AMD quarter panel and reference both the top profile edge and horizontal body line.

I have started with old emblems but want to wait until I receive new emblems to check the dimensions to make sure the studs are the same with the reproductions. Also I want to start with straight studs. Comparing three original Swinger emblems I discovered they are molded with some variation.

Between the drafting board and CAD software it should hopefully be very accurate when finished.

If I use barrel clips I would think I will need some clearance for sealer?
 
I saw that Dicer sent you a pic with measurements for the trunk lid emblems. Do you have the information that you need to locate the quarter panel emblems?

You are right about the straightness of pins issue, but if you try to straighten them up permanently you might just snap them off. The place that is critical is where the pins contact the emblem body. if you have to flex things to get all the pin tips in that's ok if when you GENTLY push it in it get progressively easier. I tried to install a DART sign by using the tips of the new emblem to mark the hole locations, since the pins weren't exactly straight, when I pressed it in it put more and more pressure on the little link between the A and the R and it snapped just before it was in place (((sigh))). I would suggest that if you have old pitted emblems that you snip off the posts 1/8 inch from the emblem, that way you can accurately locate the emblem on the sheetmetal and use the clipped points to mark hole locations in the old paint. If you can get the old originals to fit, my experience is that repops will slide right in.

There is a plastic version of the barrel clip that might be just a tad more forgiving. If you want a couple pitted Swinger and Dart emblems to help your project as test fits, let me know and you can have them for postage.
 
str12-340 said:
I saw that Dicer sent you a pic with measurements for the trunk lid emblems. Do you have the information that you need to locate the quarter panel emblems?

You are right about the straightness of pins issue, but if you try to straighten them up permanently you might just snap them off. The place that is critical is where the pins contact the emblem body. if you have to flex things to get all the pin tips in that's ok if when you GENTLY push it in it get progressively easier. I tried to install a DART sign by using the tips of the new emblem to mark the hole locations, since the pins weren't exactly straight, when I pressed it in it put more and more pressure on the little link between the A and the R and it snapped just before it was in place (((sigh))). I would suggest that if you have old pitted emblems that you snip off the posts 1/8 inch from the emblem, that way you can accurately locate the emblem on the sheetmetal and use the clipped points to mark hole locations in the old paint. If you can get the old originals to fit, my experience is that repops will slide right in.

There is a plastic version of the barrel clip that might be just a tad more forgiving. If you want a couple pitted Swinger and Dart emblems to help your project as test fits, let me know and you can have them for postage.
Click to expand...

Great idea. I do have 3 old ones to work it out. Thanks for the offer.

Is there a drill size you remember that worked?

My biggest concern is I don't want to drill holes after priming or painting if I can help it. That would promote rust. Also if I have to correct something it's a mess.

I could use a link for the emblems. There are many people selling them but I don't know if they are all made by the same manufacturer or are some better than others?

In your opinion is there an advantage using barrel clips over the plastic sleeves?


Here are some links I found:

K & S Performance

https://www.moparonlineperformance.com/ShoppingCart.asp?
 
I have some original emblems with the metal barrels and some with the plastic ones. I've used both repro ones. Both work.
 
For sure you want to drill all the holes (and close unneeded holes) before paint. Like I said earlier, I think the plastic ones are more forgiving when you don't have factory holes. Sources for emblems - Layson's Restorations (they have a vendor link here), Year one, Classic industries should have the Swinger and Dart emblems and the cursive Dodge for your hood and even the gold pentastar for the bottom of one front fender. Sometimes the emblems come with the plastic barrel clips. I'd get some new clips, put them on an old emblem and do some test fitting on a scrap piece of sheet metal. The plastic ones should slide, with no resistance into the hole until you get to the swell at the end (see earlier poster's picture).
 
str12-340 said:
For sure you want to drill all the holes (and close unneeded holes) before paint. Like I said earlier, I think the plastic ones are more forgiving when you don't have factory holes. Sources for emblems - Layson's Restorations (they have a vendor link here), Year one, Classic industries should have the Swinger and Dart emblems and the cursive Dodge for your hood and even the gold pentastar for the bottom of one front fender. Sometimes the emblems come with the plastic barrel clips. I'd get some new clips, put them on an old emblem and do some test fitting on a scrap piece of sheet metal. The plastic ones should slide, with no resistance into the hole until you get to the swell at the end (see earlier poster's picture).
Click to expand...

Very good idea

Thanks

You think there is a difference between a later hood and the original Swinger trunk? I know Chrysler was good at using up everything and making parts interchangeable.

There's three holes on the inside of this hood that don't line up with any measurements. They don't measure up the same as the Dodge emblem but you would think they are there for a purpose.

There are punched locations to use in case of a wing.

I'll post a picture later.
 
When you say "hood" you mean trunk lid right? If you are talking about the holes in the inside trunk frame, I think two of those line up with the two posts in the old Cursive Dodge emblem (see first picture in post 35 above) and since they were not seen, they probably didn't bother to delete them between 1970 and 1971 (when they changed to the block letter Dodge emblem (post 10).

Your hood (over the engine) should have 4 holes for the 4 post cursive Dodge emblem with provision for retainer nuts on all four posts via holes in the hood frame. One of those holes is slotted. The emblem that you buy will be flat and the first time it is installed you tighten the nuts and bend the emblem to conform to the curved hood. You always tighten the nut at the slotted hole last. It allows that pin to move a bit as you bend the emblem.
 
str12-340 said:
When you say "hood" you mean trunk lid right? If you are talking about the holes in the inside trunk frame, I think two of those line up with the two posts in the old Cursive Dodge emblem (see first picture in post 35 above) and since they were not seen, they probably didn't bother to delete them between 1970 and 1971 (when they changed to the block letter Dodge emblem (post 10).

Your hood (over the engine) should have 4 holes for the 4 post cursive Dodge emblem with provision for retainer nuts on all four posts via holes in the hood frame. One of those holes is slotted. The emblem that you buy will be flat and the first time it is installed you tighten the nuts and bend the emblem to conform to the curved hood. You always tighten the nut at the slotted hole last. It allows that pin to move a bit as you bend the emblem.
Click to expand...

It is the trunk.

Thanks for the explanation. Especially the tightening sequence.

I do have the four holes along the front trim piece on the front edge of the hood. I guess that lines up with the fender moldings?

The hood scoops are sublime green like the car. Is that the usual paint combo? I see some Darts with black scoops with colored bodies and some with complete black hoods next to painted colors. Just curious....
 
Originally all the scoops were painted body color on the top, flat black primer on bottom for the same reason you black out behind the grille. With this exception: the is a V21 (fender tag option) that painted the hood and cowl like I painted my Dart Custom, but in organisol black - a kind of very lightly textured semi-gloss black. Hardly anybody still uses organisol except for 100 point concours restorations because if you get even a little wax on it while waxing the adjacent body color paint it will never be right again. That's why I did mine in gloss black 20 years ago. There is somebody here that uses a specific mix that looks almost identical to organisol without the draw backs. If you go that route - on a Sublime green car it sure would look wicked, especially with the trimmed hood edge!
CIMG1505.JPG
 
str12-340 said:
Originally all the scoops were painted body color on the top, flat black primer on bottom for the same reason you black out behind the grille. With this exception: the is a V21 (fender tag option) that painted the hood and cowl like I painted my Dart Custom, but in organisol black - a kind of very lightly textured semi-gloss black. Hardly anybody still uses organisol except for 100 point concours restorations because if you get even a little wax on it while waxing the adjacent body color paint it will never be right again. That's why I did mine in gloss black 20 years ago. There is somebody here that uses a specific mix that looks almost identical to organisol without the draw backs. If you go that route - on a Sublime green car it sure would look wicked, especially with the trimmed hood edge!
View attachment 1715600941
Click to expand...


That does look cool...

So the underside (inside) of the scoops were flat black so if you look inside the scoop you see flat black?
 
The idea is you don't really "see" anything, it's just a black hole... I'll take some pics on Monday.
 
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