318 low-rpm performance ........... for the NEWBE
- Thread starter AJ/FormS
- Start date
-
- Status
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2005
- Messages
- 2,924
- Reaction score
- 4,590
right?
let's say a 5.9 drops in your lap?
so, you've got a cam re-grind at what? $250, gaskets & seals let's call that $150, intake? let's stay cheap with an offshore unit at like $175 and choose your own adventure with a carb, and since we're cheap, why not a swapmeet special eddy/carter 625 for a princely $100
all off that you need. there's $675.
oh, and throw another $150 for the flexplate, how about a car oil pan? let's do that kit from mancini that you get a pick up and dipstick with, there's $130. oh, and a magnum doesn't have a fuel pump provision. so reuse your old cover with the hughes adapter for $30 or cough up for a pump. duh, we need an oil pump and timing chain, there's another $200 out the door.
okay, i think we've got most of the parts and we're at 1185, that we can call 1200 all day. so let's add $200 in budget overrun for whatzits, thingamajigs and doohickeys. and tack on another, $200 for tax, shipping, and general skull duggery.
$1600
this surmises everything in the motor is useable. and you can reuse major components from your existing small block- distributor, motor mounts (maybe), exhaust, accessories.
how far does $1600 go on a 318 that you have, is known to be in good working order and is reasonably outfitted?
i woudnt take a 625 for free well i guess i would and sell it i hate those pos carbs ma mopar dropped the ball with that pos on the 340
if using a carter or settlebrock better be a 750
Last edited:
Oh definitely following others successfully builds is a good thing, not knocking it.
My point was you shouldn't need someone to build eg.. a 400 - 500 + hp 318 to know it's possible or it's gonna take some Nascar level of a build to do so. If your able to build a decent 340/360/408 etc.. Shouldn't take to much imagination on how to do a 318.
Wooo-Hoooo!!!! My fav sb street engine.
Well, being that there are many ways to skin a cat, obviously the bigger displacement wins. The only issue with the above is;
What many are calling BS on. Sometimes, money IS the issue.
So if we are working on just what we have, and no 360 drops in your lap, you have $2K and that’s IT! What do you do? Get and build half a 360?
I don’t know what the power difference would be other than significantly noticeable between them. I’m sure there’s a few fellas here that could run a few calculations and/or use there desk top dyno. It would be interesting to see what that prediction is.
If a Magnum 5.9 falls into my lap…. And so funny that one has a few years ago…. This is what I did and will do later on.
All prices kind of remembered from years back so… an adjustment will have to be done for anyone reading today.)
A 2000, 5.9 on am using required a B&M flex plate to mate to the transmission. I forget what it costs. $100? And - $15 for ARP bolts! A couple of gallons of trans fluid? Perhaps 1 gallon? I don’t remember. I just got what was needed and moved on.
So… to carry on…. I did this first. (After the flex plate and …..)
The engine got a junk yard distributor I have had for ever. $25.
Ballast resistor and Chrome box, wiring harness and coil.
$2 resistor, $60 Chrome box, $15 wiring harness, $25 coil.
It’s hard to remember the prices & even more so when you don’t give a crud.
(but for today will say what ever price it is to get a full ignition kit.)
(Though now it has a Edelbrock 750…)
625 AFB, Carter Comp model ($200), a RPM-AG ($240-ish) Hooker Super Comps for a B body, ($330) ‘79 Magnum. Trap door air cleaner though an inexpensive aftermarket unit would be cheaper. I scored the trap door unit 30 years ago or so for $45.
That’s a 300 HP engine. It’s going through a 727 down to a 9-1/4 w/3.55’w on 245/60/15’s. The he Magnum weighs in over the Reggie listed 3675 dry weight.
Today, if I was to do this as a on the cheap build……
Same flex plate IF I needed it.
Car oil pan, oil pump and pick up new.
Search classifieds relentlessly for the rest.
The worst part is dual fold with the inflation and the “MoPar Gold” attitude people have on their used parts. Whether they’re good or not.
Any cheap 4bbl intake. OEM is actually good for mild applications.
If you can find a good TQ or rebuild one yourself, make it a large primary unit. Small primary for an318. Or a Carter/Edelbrock/Holley, whatever you favor, just at 750cfm.
Can’t find used headers in good shape, check out Summit racings header with 3/8 flanges. Yes, it’s the crappy 3 tubes under the steering linkage design but there inexpensive and they have always fit super good for me. Now you can ether add a Summit racing exhaust kit or just get two mufflers from AutoZone or where ever and 2 hangers and get 2 lengths of 2-1/2 exhaust pipe. End it at the axle and call it a good (and cheap!) day.
I doubt it can happen longer than 5 minutes. I get over crap really quick and laugh about it. Hopefully, someone else here will do the same IF there pissed off.Hope i never make rumble mad
I’m just backing people with a lack of funds
(A REAL THING! IDGAF what you think about that, it’s a real thing. Most of my life is just that for this hobby!)
IF - key word there, your engine is running good as is, why not just stuff in a small cam and add on the rest?
Speed costs money, How thick is your wallet?
There’s no doubt starting with a bigger engine is better. I suggest that route of possible. But if it’s not….. there’s more than one way to skin a cat. While a 9 second slip probably won’t be possible, just have fun with what ya got.
I have a question!!!!!!
What if someone wants the challenge of going fast with a 318?
Or smaller engine?
What if there in a class with cubes per pound of car?
You get weight breaks with smaller engines.
This was a thing years back for sure. I don’t know about today.
Bob Glidon used a small displacement MoPar for a bit with ridiculously crazy ported W2 heads. Won the championship with that small engine. IIRC…..
What if someone wants the challenge of going fast with a 318?
Or smaller engine?
What if there in a class with cubes per pound of car?
You get weight breaks with smaller engines.
This was a thing years back for sure. I don’t know about today.
Bob Glidon used a small displacement MoPar for a bit with ridiculously crazy ported W2 heads. Won the championship with that small engine. IIRC…..
That's my favorite of his cars
I was born in 70 and nhra was on tv every weekend and i still love bob just the best.. i would like to try something with a short stroke and stupid high RPM but i worry too much and try to stay under 6k..
Oh I hear ya!
I just started taking apart this ‘67-318 to see what is good or not just because I want to see what I can do with the small engine.
I also needed the fuel pump centric.
Am I throwing money away? IDGAF
I’m having fun, don’t worry about my wallet, worry about yours. I’ll worry about mine.
To me there's two main way to look at a build, build for X power or Y rpm, to build for X power these engines are generally gonna take the same parts but the 318 needs more rpm gear stall etc..
For Y rpm the 318 gonna make less power but need parts that make less power but probably gonna work at same rpm and need similar gear stall but be slower than larger engine.
1st one should be similarly fast but 318 less streetable 2nd both should be similarly streetable but 318 be less fast, the larger engine is generally seen as getting the better results in both of these situations.
But if in 1st one you don't care about driveability or 2nd one speed then it don't matter.
A lot of people have vague goals/wants leaving discussions wide open and sometimes it's easier to argue the exaggerated to prove/make your point.
But most are looking to make 200-300 hp, few 350-400 hp at best with a 318 and the arguments are generally about 400 plus hp.
It's where I too see the dividing line, especially in the 340/360 cid area. Above this you start to see peak torque really move up in rpm trading low for top. Below this you generally don't see too much change in the 2500-3000 rpm or so range and overlap is generally still fairly tame even at narrower lsa.
Oh ****, almost forgot……
I’ll be adding a Howard’s HFT cam @ 220@050 - 108 LSA - .505 lift with the 1.5, .539.7 with the Magnums 1.6 rocker. So, since I already have the lifters, I figure just get a cam.
Also a MP shift improved kit.
I’ll re mess around with the distributor to try and maximize its use.
That’s my current state with the ‘5.9 in the ‘79.
I have some as cast 2/02 Magnum R/T heads. IIRC, there flowing 250cfm @ .500/.550 lift.
That’s my limit for messing around with this engine as it is. If I do anything down the line, I’ll give it a 4.00 arm & a proper hyd roller cam for its new size. I’m sticking with the 3.55’s.
Possible OD transmission but who knows.
My pockets have limits to the amount of money they hold.
Last edited:
When I first started on this site my goal was to build my rusty 65 Cuda into a Time Attack car, we have a fairly big road course near by Mosport Park guess it's called Canadian Tire Motorsports Park now.
I Wanted 375-425 hp 273 (hence my name) around 6500-7000 rpm + cause the rules seemed to value factory rated hp more and heavily penalize it, while most mods got very little in penalties.
I remember you had a thread on that also titled “Time Attack” didn’t you?!?!
Yeppers, didn't workout car is gone, I haven't 100% decided but probably want the Valiant to be able do 1/4 and parking lot atuox, know it's complete opposite suspension setups, still got the suspension upgrades I bought for the Cuda. Definitely 1/4 mile this year.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Uh oh
.. "yeppers" just entered the conversation..
It's easy to make power if you know how. The Cid / bore size is just the limitation you'll eventually face.
These threads are clownish in that it's just a nerdfest for those with attachments to particular Cid.
Slant guys do this all the time.
The root of it are guys who always push for more Cid instead of helping with what's there at hand... the other is people with the little prik mentality who can hit the g spot 2" in and think they have it all figured out. Lol
More with less, brain flexing and little underdog syndrome. Pick one that fits.lol
There all fun to play with imo, who care what cid you could have if what Cid you do have is enough for your goal.
I've run them all... if you can build, modify a tune.. you're going to do well with any of them with respect to their cid.
.. "yeppers" just entered the conversation..
It's easy to make power if you know how. The Cid / bore size is just the limitation you'll eventually face.
These threads are clownish in that it's just a nerdfest for those with attachments to particular Cid.
Slant guys do this all the time.
The root of it are guys who always push for more Cid instead of helping with what's there at hand... the other is people with the little prik mentality who can hit the g spot 2" in and think they have it all figured out. Lol
More with less, brain flexing and little underdog syndrome. Pick one that fits.lol
There all fun to play with imo, who care what cid you could have if what Cid you do have is enough for your goal.
I've run them all... if you can build, modify a tune.. you're going to do well with any of them with respect to their cid.
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2005
- Messages
- 2,924
- Reaction score
- 4,590
HR Cat says: hello. thank you for coming, please take a seat. we have to talk...
I so wish the 318 bashing would just STOP already! there are smaller CID engines of the same time frame that make plenty of power.... I've had plenty of 360s that were turds....
that engine is NOT the end all/ be all.... no matter how much you wish it was.....
that engine is NOT the end all/ be all.... no matter how much you wish it was.....
Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
Yup, must have the 27 8 × 10 glossies with circles and arrows.What no pictures or graphs?
You can have anything you want, - at Alice’s restaurant!Yup, must have the 27 8 × 10 glossies with circles and arrows.
Walk right in it’s around the back - just a half a mile from the railroad track -
You can get anything you want - at Alice’s restaurant….
Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
Nothing wrong with teens as a base to work with. Yup the open chamber heads are prone to detonation if the SCR is raised to 10:1. Now ask why? The quench of closed chamber heads provides mixture motion in the combustion chamber at TDC to aid a quick burn, to be complete before cylinder pressure and temperature rises high enough to cause any unburned air/fuel to autoignite. This can be allieviated at least to some degree by port and bowl porting on the cylinder wall side to generate swirl. You do have to exercise caution or get access to a sonic thickness tester so you do not get into the cooling system.
Another aid is water injection. Water has a pretty much infinite octane. Using this with 87 gasoline will stop detonation and reduce NOx, even with 11:1 or 12:1 CR. At low load with small throttle openings the vacuum is high. Mixture density in the cylinder is low, so the engine does not have a tendency to detonation.
All this yip yap of ICA is confusing for most hobbyists that want to build their own engine. For them I highly recommend to use David Vizard's 128 formula described in his How to Build Horsepower book or explained in a Powertec 10 youtube video. Pick the correct LSA by this method and control overlap with duration. The longer the duration, the more overlap you will have, unless you widen the LSA but you will likely forfeit performance. Use as much valve lift as you can with respect to where head flow maximises out at. Cut the piston reliefs for clearance and port the intake reliefs to aid airflow during the overlap period when intake piston to valve clearance is closest. Cut the sharp corner down on the cylinder center side to aid swirl. DV describes this in his BBC building book.
Last edited:
Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
Basically you are speaking of advancing the cam. You do have to watch piston to valve clearance as you advance the cam. "RV cams" had a bit more duration and lift and installed generally with no difficulty. Now add to that a .1 increase in rocker ratio, you will also benefit torque across the RPM band. As with any change in cam and valvetrain the PV clearance must be checked.
- Status
-
