340 damage dilemma

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

I'll say it again...I've set so many sleeves it's silly. My last T/A block came with 8 sleeves in it. First thing I did was machine them out and installed 8 new sleeves that were made form a better material.

Then, I used those up, and set 8 more. When I finally sold it, it was ready for 8 new sleeves. Set those with the latest cool sleeves and that pig is still running and the owner says I made him a smoking deal on that block.

I've done it over and over and over.

Any machine shop doing much race engine building will be setting sleeves without issue. In fact, I've set 4 sleeves in brand new 2.3 Ford blocks many times. They always make more power.

They used to sleeve Ford Motors all the time for competition. NASCAR way back when it wasnt odd to sleave all eight holes ,were talking back in time production blocks. After all 8... square deck and check mains/cam tunnel...things can move around.

 

[yellow rose]

The sleeves aren't the expensive part as you just stated, however it is the TIME to do it right. It takes more than 2 hours per hole to sleeve and FINISH hone/resurface the block if needed CORRECTLY. You must work for minimum wage YR or have some super fast , Star Trek tech machinery which I highly doubt. $125 for the first hole and your'e already losing money--$50 for every one after that and you're claiming bankruptcy. It's just a matter of time. Actually disregard what I just wrote. Can I send you a couple of blocks ? I need 8 sleeves in each-you can even supply the sleeves. J.Rob

LOL. I don't know what takes you so long. It ain't that hard. And I don't include the hone and surface in the cost of setting a sleeve. I don't know anyone who billed setting sleeves like that.

Don't know how you do it, but I can get the block in the machine and have the first hole in and ready to go in about 10 minutes. If I have a rigid machine and carbide tooling you can cut the bore in one pass. Otherwise it's two cuts. Big deal.

Square off the bottom and install the sleeve. That's maybe half an hour. Maybe. So my $125.00 is $250.00 an hour.

Then you repeat. I top all the sleeves at one time and flip the block and do it again.

How you do it, I can't say. Again, it ain't hard.

And of course, you have to finish bore the sleeve(s) and hone them to size and then surface the block.

Again, it ain't hard and it don't take that long.

 

[Phreakish]

2 hours a hole? Maybe if each bore is individually bored, then sleeved, then decked, then bored, then sleeved, then decked etc... definitely make you go broke doing that. Then again, if trying to 'true' every single hole to perfection first I'm sure it can take longer. But there's a difference between 'fixing' and 'improving' or 'perfecting' too...

Had a 360 sleeved recently. $45 for the sleeve itself, $75 to install it. Setup the block, had the sleeve in, finished honed, decked, cleaned and painted by the end of the day. Checking from the mains to the bore and the spacing, position, straightness, finish and roundness were all there.

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

The difference between seasoned old timers and new kids starting machine shops.

The new younger shop wants almost twice what the old times wants and they both check out the same in the end.

10 dollars a rod to resize for instance...80.00

 

[Phreakish]

The difference between seasoned old timers and new kids starting machine shops.
The new younger shop wants almost twice what the old times wants and they both check out the same in the end.
10 dollars a rod to resize for instance...80.00

Those new kids need to get paid for their time to take a bunch of glamour shots and post them to social media..

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

Those new kids need to get paid for their time to take a bunch of glamour shots and post them to social media..

"Tagged" #Truth

Lmao

 

[RAMM]

LOL. I don't know what takes you so long. It ain't that hard. And I don't include the hone and surface in the cost of setting a sleeve.Why wouldn't you include them? You perform those operations don't you? I don't know anyone who billed setting sleeves like that. I've never been asked to install a sleeve and not finish hone it to size or leave it sticking out of the deck either.





Don't know how you do it, but I can get the block in the machine and have the first hole in and ready to go in about 10 minutes. If I have a rigid machine and carbide tooling you can cut the bore in one pass. Otherwise it's two cuts. Big deal. Most use a 3/32" wall sleeve which is about .095" to cut. No conventional automotive boring bar or boring mill can take almost .100" in one cut much less two. My Winona Van Norman boring mill cannot cut more than about .025" per pass without issues. This means it takes a total of 5 passes including a light finish pass and it takes 8 1/2" minutes to travel about 5.5"'s. This alone is 42.5 minutes and I haven't squared the bottom or driven in the sleeve or topped the sleeve and then it is two passes to rough bore the sleeve for finish honing. It also takes longer for the first cylinder with the the initial set up.

Square off the bottom and install the sleeve. That's maybe half an hour. Maybe. So my $125.00 is $250.00 an hour. Good for you, I'll send some blocks to you.

Then you repeat. I top all the sleeves at one time and flip the block and do it again.

How you do it, I can't say. Again, it ain't hard.

And of course, you have to finish bore the sleeve(s) and hone them to size and then surface the block. Yes this is factored in to my price--why isn't included in yours?

Again, it ain't hard and it don't take that long. Never said it was hard, just a lengthy operation that requires far more precision than you are leading many to believe.

J.Rob

 

[Krooser]

The shop that has my 388 (383, 386, 409 depending upon your calculator) has a new Rottler F88(?). If they run it at speed (they don't) they can bore the block, install one sleeve and deck both sides in less than an hour so I'm told.

They don't like using up the cutting tools...and they seem to wear out those tools faster in a Mopar block...

 

[yellow rose]

J.Rob

I'm not reading all that, but if you THINK there aren't machines and tooling out there that will cut a thick wall sleeve in one cut you're nuts.

Like I posted, I billed it out separately. You can bill the way you want.

To try and make out setting a sleeve as this big, time consuming project is silly.

If you are half assed good you can set a sleeve, top it and file it flat and not surface the block. Done it many times.

Don't make it out to be a big science project.

 

[yellow rose]

The shop that has my 388 (383, 386, 409 depending upon your calculator) has a new Rottler F88(?). If they run it at speed (they don't) they can bore the block, install one sleeve and deck both sides in less than an hour so I'm told.

They don't like using up the cutting tools...and they seem to wear out those tools faster in a Mopar block...

Depends on the tooling. If they are using carbide, they should be able to run it wide open and get "good" tool life.

No matter what they do, a Chrysler block and any aftermarket block will always be harder on tooling than anything else.

How do you think GM made their junk so cheap? Ultra soft blocks and heads so you can just smash the tooling through the material and things like open bolt holes (rather than blind like they should be) to make the junk as fast and cheap as they could.

And then there are things like compacted graphite cast iron.

That stuff is stupid hard and is hell on tooling. Great for power though.

 

[RAMM]

I'm not reading all that, but if you THINK there aren't machines and tooling out there that will cut a thick wall sleeve in one cut you're nuts. See below

Like I posted, I billed it out separately. You can bill the way you want. I can and I do

To try and make out setting a sleeve as this big, time consuming project is silly. It is a big time consuming project if you do it right. I consider press fit, surface finish, bore geometry, accuracy etc... I've seen many many sleeves done by other places that we're poorly done and even some leaked coolant and or combustion pressure. Like I said if its so quick and easy I will send you all my sleeve projects-but they better be done properly.

If you are half assed good you can set a sleeve, top it and file it flat and not surface the block. Done it many times. I've done that too but it still takes TIME. The last sleeving project I did was a BBC and I timed it.
This involved preliminary wash cuz it was filthy, set -up on boring mill, take a test cut to ensure roundness and straightness, machine bore to final size about .002" press fit, machine step square, cut sleeve in lathe to leave +.100" above deck, put sleeve in freezer, clean bore WELL, drive sleeve in bore, set up and machine protruding sleeve to about +.002" protrusion, hand file flat, hit it with an orbital sander to remove file marks, rough bore sleeve to -.005" final bore size, remove from boring mill, set up block in CK-10,torque the torque plate on, rough hone bore, finish hone bore, move block to jet wash, rinse block with hot water and soap , wipe cylinders down with lint free white cloths and Lucas 30 break in oil until cloths have no grey on them, bag block in engine bag, and make the invoice. Resurfacing both sides would have added about 2 1/2 hrs. Don't know about you but you have to charge for every hour or you will not be in business very long--then again I get the feeling you've BTDT and are no longer in business.

Don't make it out to be a big science project.[/QUOTE]

You're a complete tool. I never said a machine tool that would cut .100" in one cut didn't exist--I said MY boring mill sure as **** wouldn't--doesn't have the HP or clamping or rigidity. If you wanna talk machine tool technology I doubt you could hang, and the Mazak Integrex 1850-V in my shop (look it up)that features a 50 HP 10,000 rpm spindle with an 80 pocket ATC--that you can bury an insert with says so . Don't preach to the choir.

I was questioning the time it takes you so now I have to ask---What kind of cylinder boring rig do you use? I'll wait and I bet I'll be waiting a long long time. J.Rob

 

[RAMM]

Depends on the tooling. If they are using carbide, they should be able to run it wide open and get "good" tool life.

No matter what they do, a Chrysler block and any aftermarket block will always be harder on tooling than anything else.

How do you think GM made their junk so cheap? Ultra soft blocks and heads so you can just smash the tooling through the material and things like open bolt holes (rather than blind like they should be) to make the junk as fast and cheap as they could.

And then there are things like compacted graphite cast iron.

That stuff is stupid hard and is hell on tooling. Great for power though.

There are FAR better cutting tools besides carbide-I don't think I've used a carbide in about 11 years. Carbide--lol.

I find it hard to believe you've had the opportunity to machine a CGI block. I would wager that you have never laid hands on one let alone machine one. J.Rob

 

[yellow rose]

There are FAR better cutting tools besides carbide-I don't think I've used a carbide in about 11 years. Carbide--lol.

I find it hard to believe you've had the opportunity to machine a CGI block. I would wager that you have never laid hands on one let alone machine one. J.Rob

You'd be wrong. Again. It sure was nice when you went to your hole and didn't post here.

You just like being a prick. Go ahead. Your just one prick in a long line of pricks.

 

[fishmens67]

I wouldn't bother with a sleeve in a factory block.

 

[RAMM]

You'd be wrong. Again. It sure was nice when you went to your hole and didn't post here.

You just like being a prick. Go ahead. Your just one prick in a long line of pricks.

Like I said, I knew I'd be waiting a long long time for a straight answer.

In case you forgot because youre old ( self admittedly)- What boring rig do you have and it regularly use? Again I will wait a bit longer for. J.Rob

P.s. Do you know what a Mazak Integrex 1850 even is?

 

[yellow rose]

Like I said, I knew I'd be waiting a long long time for a straight answer.

In case you forgot because youre old ( self admittedly)- What boring rig do you have and it regularly use? Again I will wait a bit longer for. J.Rob

P.s. Do you know what a Mazak Integrex 1850 even is?

Blah blah blah. When you can hone a cylinder, let me know.

Same old prick. Different day.

 

[RAMM]

Blah blah blah. When you can hone a cylinder, let me know.

Again no answer to what I asked. Typical liberal douche. Easy to spot these days. You types are always all talk and run and hide from real world things like numbers , data and facts. Hope I hurt your feelings , maybe that will jar you back into the real world.
Same old prick. Different day.

 

[yellow rose]

Like I said, when you can hone a cylinder, let me know.

Until then, I don't answer to you and the **** you build. No ring seal junk and then blame the manufacturer.

Bye *****

 

[RAMM]

Like I said, when you can hone a cylinder, let me know.

Until then, I don't answer to you and the **** you build. No ring seal junk and then blame the manufacturer.

Bye *****

Knew you wouldn't answer, because you more than likely live vicariously through YouTube spending your days watching people actually do things. Never have you posted anything to back up your claims. You are just full of hot air and I have warned others to beware of your "advice" . Bye name dropping douche, please go and give your advice on some other forum. Maybe a gardening or knitting forum would be safe. J.Rob

 

[69_340_GTS]

There are FAR better cutting tools besides carbide-I don't think I've used a carbide in about 11 years. Carbide--lol.

I find it hard to believe you've had the opportunity to machine a CGI block. I would wager that you have never laid hands on one let alone machine one. J.Rob

"Carbide" can refer to any number of types/grades of cutting tools. Based on 40 years as a manufacturing engineer, mostly in the machining area, as of today the best replaceable inserts for cutting most cast irons are something like Sandvik GC3210 or GC3225 CVD-coated cemented carbide. It can go by different names, made by different tool companies, but the tools are basically carbide. The only other tool material to consider for cast iron is ceramic, and it's doubtful any of your machines can run fast enough to make that type of tooling work.

 

[yellow rose]

Knew you wouldn't answer, because you more than likely live vicariously through YouTube spending your days watching people actually do things. Never have you posted anything to back up your claims. You are just full of hot air and I have warned others to beware of your "advice" . Bye name dropping douche, please go and give your advice on some other forum. Maybe a gardening or knitting forum would be safe. J.Rob

LOL.

 

[yellow rose]

"Carbide" can refer to any number of types/grades of cutting tools. Based on 40 years as a manufacturing engineer, mostly in the machining area, as of today the best replaceable inserts for cutting most cast irons are something like Sandvik GC3210 or GC3225 CVD-coated cemented carbide. It can go by different names, made by different tool companies, but the tools are basically carbide. The only other tool material to consider for cast iron is ceramic, and it's doubtful any of your machines can run fast enough to make that type of tooling work.

You know, I just said indexable carbide because I figured the majority of the people reading this would get what I was saying.

You always have one dick head who has an inferiority complex who has to run his mouth.

I could name the machines I've run, but the slow thinker would just call me a liar and a name dropper, so why bother?