360 block limits

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frosty_the_punk said:
There's a group on Facebook called "RWD BOOSTED MOPAR MUSCLE" where quite a few people share details about their high hp small blocks.

Many over there are pushing their stock block beyond what is conventionally considered "safe" or "reliable".

On the other hand there is also a lot of anecdotal info on forums of people who have had/seen blocks fail at around 600hp too.

To me this indicates that there is no definitive answer as to what works and what doesn't, or how reliable you can expect X combination to live at Y horsepower.

But IMO if you push your OEM 360 block past 600hp you should anticipate that at any moment it could potentially suffer an instantaneous unscheduled disassembly.
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Yep, it will work until it pops. With nitrous, it's usually not the block that fails, it's a piston that takes out the block.
 
Many people overlook an adequate fuel delivery system and this often leads to fails. Creating a separate fuel supply for the engine and nitrous can help. Use a mechanical pump to feed the engine and an electric one to feed the nitrous can help. Just verify they each can provide the needed pressure and volume for each....
 
CNC-Dude said:
Many people overlook an adequate fuel delivery system and this often leads to fails. Creating a separate fuel supply for the engine and nitrous can help. Use a mechanical pump to feed the engine and an electric one to feed the nitrous can help. Just verify they each can provide the needed pressure and volume for each....
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Did I miss something? The NOS is pressurized. There is no pump for that.
 
toolmanmike said:
Did I miss something? The NOS is pressurized. There is no pump for that.
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I think he's saying you can run a higher octane in the stand-alone fuel cell for the system to draw from. A lot of guys do this with wet kits.
 
pittsburghracer said:
Nos and fuel have to be delivered by a fuel pump tuned by pressure
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Thanks for the clarification. Never messed with the stuff. Not even at the dentist office. :lol: I don't have any engines I want to blow up so I will stay away.
 
Rat Bastid said:
Dont get offended. I just told you a FACT. Deal with it.
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I'm not offended. At all, actually. But if you think that carburetors are superior in this particular application you're absolutely wrong. And that's a fact.

Go talk to anyone that's building the fastest motors in the 21st century and ask them what they're using. I don't see Noonan, Steve Morris, Anderson advancing their carb depts. And if you think you know more than they do, what are you doing on this website? Go start your own shop
 
Just Send It said:
I'm not offended. At all, actually. But if you think that carburetors are superior in this particular application you're absolutely wrong. And that's a fact.

Go talk to anyone that's building the fastest motors in the 21st century and ask them what they're using. I don't see Noonan, Steve Morris, Anderson advancing their carb depts. And if you think you know more than they do, what are you doing on this website? Go start your own shop
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I didn’t say any of that. What I said was a fact and you’re sniveling. GTF over it.

If you want I can post a link to a video where Anderson prefers carbs. Line too. And some circle track guy who’s name I can’t think of.

Stop acting like a cry baby. Go start your own shop.

EDIT: just to be clear, your post blamed carburation for distribution issues. I said it’s not the carb’s fault. And that’s a FACT because the carb gives each cylinder what IT wants.

Thats my point. Had nothing to do with carb verses EFI or what was better in what situation. You did that. And one of the wankers from down under.

Don‘t blame a carb for distribution issues.
 
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Rat Bastid said:
I didn’t say any of that. What I said was a fact and you’re sniveling. GTF over it.

If you want I can post a link to a video where Anderson prefers carbs. Line too. And some circle track guy who’s name I can’t think of.

Stop acting like a cry baby. Go start your own shop.
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This isn't an EFI thread. This is a nitrous thread. And you'd know that if you could read. Just like you'd know I was perfectly okay with you using a carb until you started puffing your chest and pulling an attitude.

You don't know me. How fast I've gone. Or what I do. So you can keep the crybaby and sniveling **** to yourself.

There are different ways to do things. EFI is my way. Carbs are yours. All that matters is who gets to the stripe first.
 
Just Send It said:
This isn't an EFI thread. This is a nitrous thread. And you'd know that if you could read. Just like you'd know I was perfectly okay with you using a carb until you started puffing your chest and pulling an attitude.

You don't know me. How fast I've gone. Or what I do. So you can keep the crybaby and sniveling **** to yourself.

There are different ways to do things. EFI is my way. Carbs are yours. All that matters is who gets to the stripe first.
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Damn dude, I could say the same to you

I didn’t say switch to a carb. I corrected your bullshit error.

Get over it.
 
justinp61 said:
Please explain this John.
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Honestly I don’t know enough about it to probably explain it right but many guys have a stand alone pump and fuel cell for their nitrous system. Especially guys running alcohol as many spray race fuel for their nitrous side. When I bought my Sledgehammer 700 horsepower system I bought a pressure kit because Steve gives you nitrous and fuel pills and a tuning spreadsheet to get you started. X amount of pressure on the nitrous side at X amount of fuel pressure. With a big pump like I’m using on my heads up car it would have fuel going to a fuel log then regulated after that for the engine and nitrous system. Like I said I’ve never used it or finished plumbing my system so don’t hold that as Gospel.
 
CNC-Dude said:
They make a flow tool to set the fuel pressure so it will provide the correct pressure with the system under load as its spraying fuel....
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Just Send It said:
I don't know if there's a golden number, but I plan on spraying the piss out of my 421 this season. To the MOON, baby!

I have my own torque plates, which I think is a huge benefit when it comes to quality machining. Good hardware. Light rotating assemby. Correct ring gap and plugs range. And I have Ross add extra material around on the crown of my pistons. I also build my nitrous motors loose.

When it comes to carbureted nitrous motors, detonation is the killer. Because ultimately, it's impossible for a carb to distribute fuel equally to each cylinder. So eventually, the carb/intake is going to pick on a cylinder, and if you're not careful you'll window your block. On the big SHOT nitrous motors (300+), I much prefer EFI because each cylinder has its own dedicated fuel source and it's more controllable.

But if you have a quality motor with good parts, quality machining, adequate fueling, and you follow the golden rules, it should live for a while. If you f-up, it'll bite you. That's the game
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A couple local guys run carbs with nitrous and e85 they did drag week a few years ago never had any issues and were running low 8's and 9's it's more of your tuning capabilities with a carb both are good and bad.
 
Fuel pump has zero to do with the delivery of the nitrous.

Fuel can be regulated by pressure, although, fine tuning using pressure is a PIA. Easier to use the pills to regulate the amount of fuel provided to the system. Is there a desired pressure for tuning, yes. Can a system be tuned with less or more fuel pressure, absolutely. It's a math equation to get the proper ratio of fuel and n2o into the engine.

If a system has a fuel jet equal or larger than the nitrous jet, it's typically a FAT tune. Almost always the fuel jet should be smaller than the nitrous jet.
 
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thesiren74 said:
A couple local guys run carbs with nitrous and e85 they did drag week a few years ago never had any issues and were running low 8's and 9's it's more of your tuning capabilities with a carb both are good and bad.
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E85 is awesome. And it's good insurance so long as you're not using winter blend.

I'd be interested to see if their systems were direct port or using a plate. I trust TPI with a carb and using kits that are +500hp. To me, plates can be sketchy above that level. That's just my experience.

There are plenty of guys going 8s with nitrous and a carb. Tons. But I've been doing this long enough to know that big horsepower kills parts. EFI allows the mill to live longer because I'M telling it what I want it to do. I can manipulate almost every function with the touch of a button and data log everything. I can also program it to shutdown in the event of a lean condition or a knock to save itself. Traction and wheelie control. The benefits far outweigh the negatives.

Technology is our friend in this case. It just costs more and there's a learning curve.
 
I’ve run 100hp kits on junkyard ****. I’ve also run a 300 shot on a 4 cylinder bonneville car. The OPs engine will be fine on a 100 shot. The strength of the components is a non issue. 200-250 I’d start to worry about your cast crank. System set up and tuning will be key to making it live. Do NOT run it lean and DO NOT let it detonate. I always suggest (lots of threads here) a dedicated fuel system for the nitrous and some way of pulling timing on the hit. Don’t just pull a few degrees by cranking the distributor. Make sure your off the bottle tune up is tits before you ever hit the button.
Carbs and EFI both have their place with each having benefits and downsides. Jason line and Greg Anderson are two of the smartest dudes racing and both of them prefer carbs because their intake manifolds have design and testing that rivals NASA. The intake has more to do with distribution than what’s on top of it. Carbs pull a lot of heat out of the air charge and there’s lots of power there. On the flip side efi has individual cylinder tuning to combat distribution issues. BUT ask a few of the LS guys how many engines they’ve scattered with NOS because they spray right into their long runner dry manifold, the answer is lots of them. It all comes down to tuning your particular combo and not getting greedy.
 
pittsburghracer said:
Honestly I don’t know enough about it to probably explain it right but many guys have a stand alone pump and fuel cell for their nitrous system. Especially guys running alcohol as many spray race fuel for their nitrous side. When I bought my Sledgehammer 700 horsepower system I bought a pressure kit because Steve gives you nitrous and fuel pills and a tuning spreadsheet to get you started. X amount of pressure on the nitrous side at X amount of fuel pressure. With a big pump like I’m using on my heads up car it would have fuel going to a fuel log then regulated after that for the engine and nitrous system. Like I said I’ve never used it or finished plumbing my system so don’t hold that as Gospel.
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Thanks John. The way your post was worded was what made me ask for clarification, "Nos and fuel have to be delivered by a fuel pump tuned by pressure". I have a buddy that ran nitrous heads up cars for years and I knew he didn't have a nitrous pump on the cars. Thought maybe it was a recent development.
 
Rat Bastid said:
You’re not one of those guys who thinks you are smarter than Greg Anderson and Jason Line are you?

I‘ve read posts. You’re not.
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As usual you didn't answer a very simple question directed at you.

There are certain things which EFI can do which a carburetor can't
One of those things is have precision control of fuel metering directly to each individual cylinder.

I would imagine that any conversation where Greg Anderson or Jason Line discuss the virtues of carb over efi would probably be with regard to their respective field of expertise. Pro Stock drag racing. And no, I wouldn't disagree with them.

But I seriously doubt either of them have ever made any specific recommendations in regards to adding a 100 shot of nitrous to a mild street engine which wasn't specifically built for it.
 
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frosty_the_punk said:
As usual you didn't answer a very simple question directed at you.

There are certain things which EFI can do which a carburetor or not.
One of those things is have precision control of fuel metering directly to each individual cylinder.

I would imagine that any conversation where Greg Anderson or Jason Line discuss the virtues of carb over efi would probably be with regard to their respective field of expertise. Pro Stock drag racing. And no, I wouldn't disagree with them.

But I seriously doubt either of them have ever made any specific recommendations in regards to adding a 100 shot of nitrous to a mild street engine which wasn't specifically built for it.
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You talk about all this ability but I see guys giving up on fuel injection or taking it to someone to tune THEIR car. What good is that. Maybe ok for a street cruiser that keeps his hands off stuff but most of us don’t. I’ve never had to have a guy come tune my carb for me and then retune it after I add some more horsepower or a different cam I’ve been itching to try. Ohhh wait I can’t go racing this weekend I have to take my car to the dynojet to get a tune done on it. Lmao.
 
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