360 block limits

[fishmens67]

Here you go.

Urban Dictionary: Drongo

Well then, Baker must be familiar with the term, as it originated in Aussie land.
I bet he's called it alot.

 

[Rat Bastid]

Well then, Baker must be familiar with the term, as it originated in Aussie land.
I bet he's called it alot.

Among other things I can’t call him here, although they’d be the truth.

 

[fishmens67]

Among other things I can’t call him here, although they’d be the truth.

Seeing how I don't drink anymore, I think I would just pour a beer on him.
That's what I use to do to pokers.

 

[Bakerlite]

I guess you just proved my point as to the content and intentions of your posts, carry on as I concede, a drongo you are lol.

So you couldn't work it out and now I'm the drongo.. LOL...
Oooh, so many triggers pulled today.. Jumping in, joining in on the reach around..LOL

 

[Bakerlite]

I didn’t invite you to a conversation. I don’t discuss things like this with lower forms of plant life, so piss off.


And don’t forget, I’m STILL here, in spite of the rules not being applied equally. Here you are, trolling AGAIN. Yet your mouthy punk *** gets to keep on trolling.

Must be nice to suck up to the moderators.

You can't even keep me on ignore... Who's trolling who?

 

[MMissile]

Man, what a thread.....

 

[Bakerlite]

A subaru or honda cannot be compared to say a 632 with a pro charger and efi.

Sorry, I don't subscribe to that theory.

 

[Arthur Sperotto]

You're not worth the effort.

Bingo. Nailed it!

I love it that when the rodent replies to an elaborate, respectful, long post from Frosty with just "LOFingL" it's okay. But when I reply to his BS with the same exact thing, blasphemy!

 

[fishmens67]

We've yet to find the limit of a 360 block, but we may find the limit of man.

 

[Bakerlite]

One small step for a block, one giant..........

 

[Bakerlite]

Bingo. Nailed it!

I love it that when the rodent replies to an elaborate, respectful, long post from Frosty with just "LOFingL" it's okay. But when I reply to his BS with the same exact thing, blasphemy!

He said once that he had 9 new user accounts all ready to go. So deep down inside, he knows what he is.

 

[pittsburghracer]

Some of you guys need this. Sit back, breathe in, try to relax.

 

[Rat Bastid]

Bingo. Nailed it!

I love it that when the rodent replies to an elaborate, respectful, long post from Frosty with just "LOFingL" it's okay. But when I reply to his BS with the same exact thing, blasphemy!

I have no desire to try and carry on a conversation with a 36 year old “man” who calls himself “punk” and lives up to his name.

You on the hand were given the opportunity to enter a discussion.

You flamed out.

If YOU (not bakerturd or punky or any other wanker from down under) want to have a discussion about EFI and carbs and when to use which system with ME then just say so and I’ll start it.

Or you can just slither away like you did the last time.

You‘re up…

 

[Rat Bastid]

We've yet to find the limit of a 360 block, but we may find the limit of man.

Actually I answered it. But for the OP, who just wants to hit his 360 with a 100 shot the answer is he should clip a plug long before he hurts a block. He should get a piston before hurting the block.

Thats the short answer.

Of course, if it does go out and spit something up it will certainly be the carbs fault.

 

[frosty_the_punk]

@frosty_the_punk , I will respond out of respect to you but I don't want to debate on this thread anymore. It is clear we are coming at it from opposite ends of the spectrum.

I appreciate your engagement, but please don't feel obligated, you certainly don't have to debate with me. We are all sharing ideas and can simply agree on some things, and disagree on others.

I agree that we are looking at things from different perspectives but I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "we are coming from opposite ends of the spectrum"

Are you indicating that you are on the professional end of EFI tuning spectrum since I am only claiming to be an enthusiast?

A subaru or honda cannot be compared to say a 632 with a pro charger and efi.

If we're comparing overall power output between a small engine and another engine maybe 5x larger?

Then yes, Agreed. They're Usually not going to be very comparable.

However.

If we're comparing the tuning process?

Well If they're both running similar boost on the same fuel in a similar rpm range in similar conditions, it's going to be essentially the same process IMO.

To me "big" power now days (especially with a power adder) starts at 1k or better.

In todays world 500hp is the new 350hp, 600hp is the new 450hp and what used to be big power at 750hp is now 1k plus.

That's a fair perspective.

Making power has become more affordable than ever before, as has access to knowledge at consumer level.
and as a result, the level of performance which is considered impressive has increased. Raised the bar, if you will.

However, for me. Because I have a wide range of engines which i take interest in. I see things a little differently, "big horsepower" to me is relative to what it's coming from.

250hp is pretty "big horsepower" output from a turbocharged 600cc sportbike engine.

But 250hp from 318ci mopar small block V8 is certainly not big horsepower.

If a person has never tuned or hung out with someone who tunes a drag car with a v8, power adder and efi making 1khp plus at the track than they have no clue as to the parameters of doing such and should not make assumptions as to what it takes to make good power and make it live.

.
I don't really see why you're this rigid with what you consider as valid tuner knowledge/experience.

I love large displacement boosted V8's as much as the next person
But i'm also sure that a tuner's skill or knowledge isn't somehow proportional to the displacement of their engine.

500hp may be dusmissed as not big power, since "500hp is the new 350hp"

Yet that becomes a bit irrelevant, because If a tuner knows enough about tuning EFI to make a 2.0L four cylinder engine live at 500hp, He's probably going to do just fine with a 6.0L V8 engine at 1000hp.

 

[frosty_the_punk]

if you are referring to me than shockingly you would be wrong again.

Well then, I should just say, in this case I am not wrong. I'm sure you can reverse engineer it from there.

Bakerlite do you have an IT background?

This kind of "if/then" riddle has dev written all over it.

(Also, lead69 he wasn't referring to you but is now messing with you for assuming)

 

[lead69]

Yet that becomes a bit irrelevant, because If a tuner knows enough about tuning EFI to make a 2.0L four cylinder engine live at 500hp, He's probably going to do just fine with a 6.0L V8 engine at 1000hp.

This is where we disagree, it's painting with a broad brush. The guys I mentioned are a good ten to fifteen years younger than me and were running imports before they could afford the "old school" muscle but made the switch as soon as they could. They have done it all the different ways including starting out with cheap ebay turbos. these guys know first hand what it takes to do both and will tell you although the basics remain the same what the engines want is different.

So imagine you with your skill set right now being asked to tune a big inch, 1,200 hp v8 with a procharger and efi at the track tonight for a competitive race -not a test and tune. Are you certain that the experience you have with tuning 2.0s is going to transition over seamlessly to the v8 and allow that car to be competitive after a couple trial runs?. I am splitting hairs but that's what it takes to keep big power alive and performing at the top of their game, it's a very small tune up window. defenitely not talking about a daily here.

 

[pittsburghracer]

Man it would be nice to see the same people that derail a post start their own damn posts. It’s not that hard guys. Hit post, put title in the subject bar, drop down and say what you want to talk about like maybe “what’s better, carbs or fuel injection” them hit the box on the bottom

 

[frosty_the_punk]

This is where we disagree, it's painting with a broad brush. The guys I mentioned are a good ten to fifteen years younger than me and were running imports before they could afford the "old school" muscle but made the switch as soon as they could. They have done it all the different ways including starting out with cheap ebay turbos.

Cheap ebay turbos are a relatively recent thing. How long would you estimate that they have been tuning?

these guys know first hand what it takes to do both and will tell you although the basics remain the same what the engines want is different.

Did the guys you're talking about give any indication of what specifically the engine wanted which was different?

I am interested to know specifics because what you're telling me doesn't align with my own experiences tinkering with engines of various displacements, or what I've heard/read/seen from tuning professionals.

If they have expertise in something which I don't have knowledge of, I'd very much like to know what it is.

So imagine you with your skill set right now being asked to tune a big inch, 1,200 hp v8 with a procharger and efi at the track tonight for a competitive race -not a test and tune.

I wouldn't even attempt to tune to the ragged edge, since i have nothing to do with competitive cars.

Not many people would ask a non-professional to tune their competitive boosted big-inch car, and even fewer would expect it to be ready to race that night. Seems a bit unreasonable really.

Are you certain that the experience you have with tuning 2.0s is going to transition over seamlessly to the v8 and allow that car to be competitive after a couple trial runs?

Will my knowledge transition? I certainly think so.

seamlessly? How exactly do you define that?
Different engines can respond differently based on a number of factors, especially with ignition timing.
The process of getting the AFR where you want it doesn't change much between engines though

as far as i can tell, the displacement and number of cylinders generally aren't prohibiting factors in tuning EFI effectively. I can't fathom why they would be.

Will it be competitive after a couple of test hits?

No, it won't. And you'd have to be hopping mad to expect this.

Absolutely not, a competitive tune would require a combination of dyno time with knock ears and then afterwards many, many trial runs. even for a professional what you're asking for is impossible.

. I am splitting hairs but that's what it takes to keep big power alive and performing at the top of their game, it's a very small tune up window. defenitely not talking about a daily here.

I haven't done a procharged V8. But the linear boost curve of a blower is much more predictable and repeatable than a turbo.

I'm confident I could dial-in a decent reliable tune with my current abilities, a professional tuner with a dyno might get 5-6% more output.

Most of the people I know would be extremely happy with a reliable 1130hp in their non-competitive street car, and could live with leaving 70hp on the table.

 

[Bakerlite]

Cheap ebay turbos are a relatively recent thing. How long would you estimate that they have been tuning?

Did the guys you're talking about give any indication of what specifically the engine wanted which was different?

I am interested to know specifics because what you're telling me doesn't align with my own experiences tinkering with engines of various displacements, or what I've heard/read/seen from tuning professionals.

If they have expertise in something which I don't have knowledge of, I'd very much like to know what it is.

I wouldn't even attempt to tune to the ragged edge, since i have nothing to do with competitive cars.

Not many people would ask a non-professional to tune their competitive boosted big-inch car, and even fewer would expect it to be ready to race that night. Seems a bit unreasonable really.

Will my knowledge transition? I certainly think so.

seamlessly? How exactly do you define that?
Different engines can respond differently based on a number of factors, especially with ignition timing.
The process of getting the AFR where you want it doesn't change much between engines though

as far as i can tell, the displacement and number of cylinders generally aren't prohibiting factors in tuning EFI effectively. I can't fathom why they would be.

Will it be competitive after a couple of test hits?

No, it won't. And you'd have to be hopping mad to expect this.

Absolutely not, a competitive tune would require a combination of dyno time with knock ears and then afterwards many, many trial runs. even for a professional what you're asking for is impossible.

I haven't done a procharged V8. But the linear boost curve of a blower is much more predictable and repeatable than a turbo.

I'm confident I could dial-in a decent reliable tune with my current abilities, a professional tuner with a dyno might get 5-6% more output.

Most of the people I know would be extremely happy with a reliable 1130hp in their non-competitive street car, and could live with leaving 70hp on the table.

All good points Frosty. I don't think anyone here is going to be telling you something you don't already know or something you can't figure out.
One thing I will say is that the more power you make the more attention you have to pay to how that tune is applied, depending on what track you are at, conditions etc.
I used to see Larson, go check the track surface, get on his phone, open up his laptop and make changes .
Just putting your engine on "kill" doesn't always guarantee the best results.. and things tend to go wrong when people get a little too greedy.
Baby steps, best results.

 

[Bakerlite]

Bakerlite do you have an IT background?

This kind of "if/then" riddle has dev written all over it.

Ah, well done, you are no "Drongo"

 

[lead69]

Man it would be nice to see the same people that derail a post start their own damn posts. It’s not that hard guys. Hit post, put title in the subject bar, drop down and say what you want to talk about like maybe “what’s better, carbs or fuel injection” them hit the box on the bottom

Yeah, It's getting so common anymore that it seems normal lol, obviously I'm guilty of being caught up in it even though I know better.

 

[pittsburghracer]

Yeah, It's getting so common anymore that it seems normal lol, obviously I'm guilty of being caught up in it even though I know better.

I think the gentleman found out the info he needed. After that it turned into a trash feast. Shame is most of us would love to sit down with each other and talk cars and engines.

 

[lead69]

If they have expertise in something which I don't have knowledge of, I'd very much like to know what it is.

I wouldn't even attempt to tune to the ragged edge, since i have nothing to do with competitive cars.

Will it be competitive after a couple of test hits?


No, it won't. And you'd have to be hopping mad to expect this.

Absolutely not, a competitive tune would require a combination of dyno time with knock ears and then afterwards many, many trial runs. even for a professional what you're asking for is impossible.
a professional tuner with a dyno might get 5-6% more output.

Most of the people I know would be extremely happy with a reliable 1130hp in their non-competitive street car, and could live with leaving 70hp on the table.

These guys have the experience and you could do it too, all it takes is hundreds of hours with similar combinations and equal if not more trips down the quarter mile. If you are serious about learning more I can get some videos and possibly put you in touch with them in a few months but pm me as I'm done with the subject on here lol,
sorry to pbr and fellow fabo members.

 

[Bakerlite]

I think the gentleman found out the info he needed. After that it turned into a trash feast. Shame is most of us would love to sit down with each other and talk cars and engines.

Let me ask you this. How long have you been using forums, or notice boards?