360 pros & cons vs 318

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7duce swinger

7duce swinger

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So since i have to take my head to the machine shop, to get it fixed and i have to dismantle my engine, i was thinking why not go with more cubes? So.... What exactly is so great bout the 360? I understand you get more cubes, longer stroke etc.. How much more power would you get out of a 360 rather than a 318? Is it a ton of more torque, or not really? Lets say stock bottom end for starters. Rpm air gap, my 596 heads milled to 61 cc's & some porting done. Tri-y headers, a 650 holley spreadbore , 2 1/2 exh. x-pipe, 40 series flow's etc.... Will all of this on a 360 block be better off than a 318? Or will i still be in the same neighborhood??.... Or i have a chance of a 413 (out of a car not rv)for 250$ running. I understand piston availability, theres also some 30 over 413 pistons i can get to, for 200$.. What would be the better route? I want more power. My 318 is fun and all, it just doesnt arouse me all that much when i step on it.. Sorry for the rant, guys.. Please help Thanks!!
 
I want a neck snapper lol, i can get almost any bigblock parts intake, headers etc.. I would also like rolling 30 mph burnouts (just for funnin) any help is appreciated. Ive just been wondering since its outta the car, i could swap in something bigger. Bigger is better (to me )lol. Any pros n cons for a 413cid? Thanks
 
The 360 makes a noticeable and welcomed amount of torque over the shorter stroke engines. It is the choice of most current builders for this reason as well as being a lot cheaper.

A long stroke engine can get a car moving faster, since it is torque that gets a car moving. More the merry. Otherwise, you rely on RPM to get you moving. (AKA-HP)

The long stroke engine will also make peak power in less RPM.

The 413;

Swapping in a big block of this size is IMO, not really worth it unless your going to exploite it fully. Otherwise, you can stroke a 360 to 400+ cubes with less hassle but probably not cheaper overall vs. a big block swap. The hassle
Comes in with the need of a big block trans, possible driveshaft shortening, suspension and brake upgrades. This will cost some good coin as well, so think, price and think again.

If it was a 440 or a stroked 400, then I'd go for it. A regular B 400 or a 413 should be carefully considered since your in a catch 22 area.
 
out of curiousity, what is your trans, trans stall (if applicable), rear end gear and rear tire size?


more bang for your buck with the 360 for sure! more low end torque so it will burn the tires a bit easier at lower rpms.
 
There's no replacement for displacement. All else being equal, a 360 being 13% larger will produce 13% more torque/power. In actual practice, a 360 will produce this and more over a 318.

When you say stock bottom end, do you mean stock 318 cam?!?

The late 360 heads and big runner intake aren't the hot ticket on a mild 318. Without knowing what the rest of your combination is (cam, gears, converter, etc...) it's hard to say how much the 360 would help, but it would.

Forget the 413. By the time you factor in all the things that must be changed for a big block swap, you could probably build a 408 stroker and go faster. That seems to be the current trend, and for good reason.
 
Coming from a blank sheet? 360 hands down. Think about pulling a 5.9 magnum, you also get roller everything and a serpentine accessory system, get a the cam reground to a nice size through bulletcams or hughes. Boom, you've got some thunder. I really dig mine.
 
Thanks rumble so the 413 wouldnt be a good idea then.... No not stock cam i meant stock bore and stroke. I have a comp cams thumper. the smallest of the trio... 486/473 lift flat tappet. Right now i have a 3.23 sg. Was trying to find a 3.55 or 3.91 whats a better choice of rear gears? Tranny is a 904, seller said had a shift kit, (but i think he jus said it to help sell the car). It has no problem of burning the tires at all puts a grin on my face...but doesnt scare me. thanks for the replies guys, just wondering if all those mods would be better on a 360 rather than my 318, or go big block. Shortening of the driveline is not a problem neither is getting a trans for big block. What else would be a big cost factor for a 413? Thanks
 
Sorry forgot to mention the cam in my first post. Tire size is 245/60/14. Spring relocation done, and tubbing in progress. Has coilovers on the rear, and thinking of what i should get for the front?? Has new disk brakes as well( up front) drums on the rear. So i dont know what exactly i would have to upgrade for a big block? Torsion bars good for a big block or would i need bigger ones? Sorry i couldnt tell you the stall if my life depended on it. It burns rubber for a very far stretch of the block. Just doesnt scare the crap out of me like a hot big block car.
 
If you want it to scare you, shoot it with a 250 shot of nitrous THAT should scare the crap out of ya., my 74 duster came with a 318 and 904, put in a 360/727 (now 412) in 1983 and never looked back, I have 3:55's and it runs 3500@ 70 mph, I would leave the 3:23's in if you are going to drive it on the highway, if not then go 3:91.
I also agree go 360.
 
Swap out the front disks for 9" drums. THAT should scare you without adding any power. :)

The cam you have is pretty mild, and on a 318 you have more head than you need. There are certainly better 318 cams out there (XE 268, Voodoo 60403) I agree with the 5.9 Magnum idea. Junkyards are full of them, they have roller cams, and the heads are already better than you'll ever make 596's.

To swap in a big block at a minimum you'll need an A727-B transmission (getting costly as newest one is 33 years old.) Conversion mounts or rare big block K-member. New expensive headers. Big block engine. Bigger radiator. Also keep in mind those 413 heads are among the worst B/RB heads out there. But, spinning the tires (if that's really important to you) will certainly be easier after adding another 200# to the front end. If you're heart is set on a big block, start with a 440. Weigh's the same and makes more power.

No idea what your budget is, but figure $3000+ to get the 413 in and running. For the same cash you can probably freshen up a 5.9 Magnum, buy a good converter, low gear set for the 904, and run 13's.
 
Lol the drums would do it... Well id make my own headers before i payed in upwards of 500-900... The trans problem, and parts would be no problem. B-block trans? The rb and b block trans are different? I only thought it would be good, at 200$ and then pistons 30 over at 200. My bro in law has some 452 heads. Im leaning over to the 360 though. Especially the magnum as its already a roller set up. So whats a good running 318 with milled 360 heads intake and eddy carb with comp cams thumper cam go for these days. I figure if i go magnum i wont need my old block anymore. So anyone know what i should sell it for?
 
pass on the 413 unless you have a pre '66 car, 440 is close to the same thing just BIGGER! could maybe source one from someone parting out a '70s RV for cheap, i search individually each year between 70-80 "dodge" a few times a week on craigslist and there's tons!
 
Well i found a couple of 360's and a magnum which is out of my range for 1800 and needs total rebuild. So since im going with a 360. Which engine mount is it thats different? Or am i mistaken? I thought you needed a different mount for a 360. A different dampener ? I will be going 4 speed maybe 5 speed if i find a bellhousing for a t5 to mopar, cheap but definately manual transmission. So since im going the 360 route how much can i sell my 318 for? Any suggestions on where to price it?
 
I would go 360, and yes, it will make quite a bit more torque than the 318 with the parts you described.

The 413 would be a waste of time and money (in my opinion) unless you just wanted the "wow" factor of saying "it has a big block". If you don't dump a fair amount of money into the 413 it would be relatively slow.

I can't tell you the number of times I have raced people that touted their big blocks and thought my car MUST be slow because it has a "small block"......:eek:ops:.....:D:D:D I love watching them in my rear view mirror in agony. What you need is the total package. If you build it right (big block or small block) with a well thought out combination of power/suspension/traction, your car will boogie.

Long story short, either can make good power, but from what you described (the goal being burning rubber), you would be fine just doing the 360.
 
7duce swinger said:
Well i found a couple of 360's and a magnum which is out of my range for 1800 and needs total rebuild. So since im going with a 360. Which engine mount is it thats different? Or am i mistaken? I thought you needed a different mount for a 360. A different dampener ? I will be going 4 speed maybe 5 speed if i find a bellhousing for a t5 to mopar, cheap but definately manual transmission. So since im going the 360 route how much can i sell my 318 for? Any suggestions on where to price it?
Click to expand...

It's to bad your on the other side of the continent. I have my 360 for sale right now and it will definitely do what you want and would be a drop in and go.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=204980
That being said, a 360 is the best way for you to go for dollars per thrill.

Jack
 
3.91 / 4.10 can be run all day @ 75 mph but it sure eat up the fuel

For real punch 4.30 - 4.56 gears are needed. People don't want to run steep gears today and then they need extra the extra stroke.

I would build the 360 since the trans and other parts in there now would work. Spend the bucks on getting the short block done right so it hold together wringing it out to 6,500 daily

A 360 with 4.30 gears - for non freeway use - would kick it right back. If you gonna do 70 - 75 a lot, then 3.91 gears. 3.55 won't do it, might as well stick with the 3.23 vs 3.55

If MPG matters, stay with 3.23
 
7duce swinger said:
So since i have to take my head to the machine shop, to get it fixed and i have to dismantle my engine, i was thinking why not go with more cubes? So.... What exactly is so great bout the 360? I understand you get more cubes, longer stroke etc.. How much more power would you get out of a 360 rather than a 318? Is it a ton of more torque, or not really? Lets say stock bottom end for starters. Rpm air gap, my 596 heads milled to 61 cc's & some porting done. Tri-y headers, a 650 holley spreadbore , 2 1/2 exh. x-pipe, 40 series flow's etc.... Will all of this on a 360 block be better off than a 318? Or will i still be in the same neighborhood??.... Or i have a chance of a 413 (out of a car not rv)for 250$ running. I understand piston availability, theres also some 30 over 413 pistons i can get to, for 200$.. What would be the better route? I want more power. My 318 is fun and all, it just doesnt arouse me all that much when i step on it.. Sorry for the rant, guys.. Please help Thanks!!
Click to expand...

A 250 dollar running 413?
If it's out of a 62-65 car, runs good, has good compression, and possibly 915 closed chamber heads, picking the 413 would be a no brainer for me, because the cost of everything you would need to upgrade for a 360 (including chassis mods like big torsion bars) is going to be similar (with the possible exception of a big block transmission case or bell housing) and you save the 1500 to 2000 dollar cost of a stroker kit.
Makes installing the mega inch big block stroker a simple bolt in, for when you get the money to be really horsepower mad, too.
 
7duce swinger said:
Thanks rumble so the 413 wouldnt be a good idea then....
Click to expand...

Now that I'm home instead of on the phone........


IF you want to do a 413, far be it from me to say don't. The above post is what I would do. Even if cost is not a consideration. Doing a big block is a hassle in upgrading arts. I know, I'm in the middle of one now. A "B" block 400/727/8-3/4 in a 71 Duster.
 
twofosho said:
A 250 dollar running 413?
If it's out of a 62-65 car, runs good, has good compression, and possibly 915 closed chamber heads, picking the 413 would be a no brainer for me, because the cost of everything you would need to upgrade for a 360 (including chassis mods like big torsion bars) is going to be similar (with the possible exception of a big block transmission case or bell housing) and you save the 1500 to 2000 dollar cost of a stroker kit.
Makes installing the mega inch big block stroker a simple bolt in, for when you get the money to be really horsepower mad, too.
Click to expand...


I don't know why you would have to upgrade the torsion bars. A 318 and a 360 weigh pretty much the same. :scratch:

Jack
 
If you can find a good 413, Snatch it just to have..Thats a damn good deal. They go for more than that every day..

I got my '84 W150 a few months ago, and it has a 360... Ive just driven it fairlly short distances, because it burns close to 1/4 a tank driving 40 miles... That's a downside to a 360. 4MPG before all of the stroking stuff.. Haha.
 
I had a chance to get a 413 wedge for 500 bucks. Everybody told me no though??? That it would be too hard to install.... It needed the intake dist and exhaust manifolds Or headers.. yea too bad im far lol.. found a few motors so im pricing everything out. I also found a 69' 440 for 500 bucks so at the moment im still planning. Do i have to go with manual steering since my car has ps, or will the big block work with my ps pump? Im just asking as most know and have done it before me i know the 360 is a bolt in deal nothing too much. What would be cooler, 413 or 360 lol? The little 5.0's get put to shame when they rev there little "crap point oh" engines and try to race me. Already proved to two of em, and an ex-chp mustang he couldnt touch me lol im just looking for the best bang for the buck. Im already set on swapping motors, just dont know if i should go straight for the big block now. Thanks guys, for all the help!!
 
Also if someone could help me out on wheat vehicle i could swipe the drums off of, i want to change my bolt pattern. The car has 2 different bolt patterned axles, right now i have chevy 4 3/4 pattern with 14" westerns, i want to change back to the 4 1/2 pattern to get some better wheels. I was about to do it, then remembered it has 4 3/4 drums on it :( lol is there any way i can find out what brand the axles are? They look like the moser etc but i cant see a part # or brand, any help is appreciated. Thanks for all the great info n help
 
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