360 vs 383

[junkyardhero]

LOL .. i get it, although I might . I'm just saying, are both engines 100% up to snuff? Any updates on one vs the other? It's very hard to hold 50 year old vehicles to a standard of 50 years ago, so many changes between then and now. And were those changes equal? I guess that's why I said there is a lot of property there to cover, but I get your comparison.

i'd say they're on very equal ground.

the 383 is all OG and low-ish mileage. has a 70's holley 2bbl (prob off a 360!) and mopar electronic. that's it. still running (cracked) manifolds and a full dual two miles long back over the axle and kicked out the side with ginormous RV mufflers.

i did the rebuild on the 360 in the early 2000's and it got stock slugs .020 over, i forget what heads at the moment, but they're non-smog port regular *** 2bbl 360 heads that got a 3 angle, stock 2bbl manifold and a melling cam. i *might* have put thinner headgaskets on it, but i can't remember seeing as that i've slept since then. but other than that, nothing special. it was and always has been a work truck. so, it's still tight and right, runs good. same thing, mopar electronic thru factory manifolds, full exhaust over the axle kicked out at the rear tire.

the biggest difference between the two besides nine miles of exhaust pipe, is the gears. little boy is running a 8.75 with 3.55's and fat man is running a D70 turning 4.56's but the tire height puts them within the same realm.

 

[318willrun]

The 383 is every bit as easy to install in an A body, so what's not to love? Plus, it has the distributor staring you in the face when you open the hood, instead of having to reach for it.

I love them both... equally... and some say "you can't" ... LOL
They both have "plus sides" to them. But my choice IF we are talking A-body and in the 300-400 HP range (where I mostly play), I would personally take the 360 mated to a 904. As I stated earlier, for header options, and the 904.

 

[rumblefish360]

Yeah, that makes no sense to me either. Clutching at straws maybe?

He often writes and asserts convoluted ideas and what he thinks are facts. He is a keyboard warrior and thinks he knows what he’s talking about.

The only person I put on ignore multiple times because I get tired of his ridiculous idiotic statements. I could spend all day correcting him over and over again it’s insane.

He read a ton of stuff here and miss applies it all the time. Rather than nicely getting out and changing a cam or swapping a rear or upgrading a converter, he reads stuff here and lives, vicariously through others, and then has the nerve to correct them with completely wrong information.

Perhaps one day he’ll actually turn a wrench.

I stand by the fact that 383s are pretty much useless. An oversquare engine should be able to rev like crazy but the factory 383 redline is like 5,200.

What's funny about that though is the '74 360 redline is probably even lower. Without looking it up I'd bet it's 4,500 at the most.

Both are pathetic in factory form. That's not necessarily the engine itself but the restrictions that were placed on them for normal people that don't care about max performance. Factory hydraulic cams are the antithesis of performance.

True, held down by smog items.

'74 factory cam was the 340 cam (268/276), and rated HP peak was at 4800 rpm. At least per the AMA spec on the Hamtramck historical site.

The 1970 Hamtramck Registry - 1974 AMA Specifications - Barracuda

That’s the 4bbl cam.

 

[OldmanRick]

I grew up ''car wise'' in the late 60'/70's and there were quite few 68/9 Road Runners around at the time. While they were a great performance value then, i think they also contributed to the lack of respect for the 383. Most dealers ordered the basic models that were column shift auto's with 3.23 gears. Those cars in decent factory tune were 14.80 to 15.00 qtr. mile capable. I personally know of 2 and a 69 Super Bee that was about the same. Not to mention the 340 cars, but 400 GM's with 3.55/3.73/3.90 gears around and the 383's just never gained the ''street cred'' they probably deserved.

I did have a neighbor with a 68' 383 Bee that had all the bolt-ons, a .509 cam, 3500 ish converter and still took 4.56 gears to get into the 12's.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I love them both... equally... and some say "you can't" ... LOL
They both have "plus sides" to them. But my choice IF we are talking A-body and in the 300-400 HP range (where I mostly play), I would personally take the 360 mated to a 904. As I stated earlier, for header options, and the 904.

Or a 318. LOL

 

[fishmens67]

The fact is the 360 was a smog pig from the factory. 400's and 440's of the smog area were gutless pigs too.
The 5.7 Hemi would walk all over these gutless wonders, Mopar did good with the modern 5.2 and 5.9 very respectable.
Stick a pre 71 383 or 440 magnum with headers in an A-body and get back to me, after you change your undies. lol It ain't your daddies 360 Factory Duster.

 

[318willrun]

I grew up ''car wise'' in the late 60'/70's and there were quite few 68/9 Road Runners around at the time. While they were a great performance value then, i think they also contributed to the lack of respect for the 383. Most dealers ordered the basic models that were column shift auto's with 3.23 gears. Those cars in decent factory tune were 14.80 to 15.00 qtr. mile capable. I personally know of 2 and a 69 Super Bee that was about the same. Not to mention the 340 cars, but 400 GM's with 3.55/3.73/3.90 gears around and the 383's just never gained the ''street cred'' they probably deserved.

I did have a neighbor with a 68' 383 Bee that had all the bolt-ons, a .509 cam, 3500 ish converter and still took 4.56 gears to get into the 12's.

About the same numbers as a Little Red Express

 

[RustyRatRod]

The fact is the 360 was a smog pig from the factory. 400's and 440's of the smog area were gutless pigs too.
The 5.7 Hemi would walk all over these gutless wonders, Mopar did good with the modern 5.2 and 5.9 very respectable.
Stick a pre 71 383 or 440 magnum with headers in an A-body and get back to me, after you change your undies. lol It ain't your daddies 360 Factory Duster.

I would be willing to bet a lot of these guys have never seen a bonafide real 383HP equipped car.

 

[318willrun]

The fact is the 360 was a smog pig from the factory. 400's and 440's of the smog area were gutless pigs too.
The 5.7 Hemi would walk all over these gutless wonders, Mopar did good with the modern 5.2 and 5.9 very respectable.
Stick a pre 71 383 or 440 magnum with headers in an A-body and get back to me, after you change your undies. lol It ain't your daddies 360 Factory Duster.

Not to sidetrack, but a 3.6 V6 2015 Challenger will run 14.6 and keep up with 80% of the "muscle cars" of the 60's/70's. But again, for the time and era, I think the 383 and 360 did well.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Not to sidetrack, but a 3.6 V6 2015 Challenger will run 14.6 and keep up with 80% of the "muscle cars" of the 60's/70's. But again, for the time and era, I think the 383 and 360 did well.

Yes, that's very true, but remember, they have technology on their side, too. They're measured using NET HP, not gross. I'd like to see some gross numbers on the newer engines. There's no denying technology has really made a big difference. I bet the gross numbers would be at least 25% more. Possibly more than that.

 

[273]

Not to sidetrack, but a 3.6 V6 2015 Challenger will run 14.6 and keep up with 80% of the "muscle cars" of the 60's/70's. But again, for the time and era, I think the 383 and 360 did well.

My Avenger RT goes pretty good, there impressive little engines, got to be decently into the 300's gross hp, plus there geared to take advantage of the power they make.


That's a 12.39:1 Total 1st gear

Gear Ratios1ST 4.127, 2ND 2.842, 3RD 2.283, 4TH 1.452, 5TH 1.00, 6TH 0.69 Reverse 2.21 Transfer Ratio 0.95 Final Drive Ratio 3.16 w/ 3.6L engine, engineOverall Top Gear 2.06 w/ 3.6L engine.

 

[S'cuder]

My '69 383 Super Bee was a lightweight bench seat coupe with a 4-speed and 3:91 gears. The only options were sure grip, power steering with a cooler, and a radio. It ran pretty good, but when I put on headers, Crane Cam, lifters and springs, Edelbrock Torquer and a 750 double pumper I dipped into the 12s with 8" street legal cheater slicks. Revved to 6500 with no trouble. It probably would've run a better time if I could have driven worth a darn.

 

[33IMP]

5200 was rated horsepower peak for a 383 magnum, not the redline.
440 magnum hp was rated at 4600. Do you think it quit at 4700? Original Sixpack motors rated at 4700 were failing when owners spun them to 6000 in 69, so Mopar beefed them up in 70.
(and i dont for a minute believe a stock 74 360 Duster ran anywhere near a 13.50. 15.50, I would absolutely believe. Those "pure stockers" are NOT stock!)

 

[Killer6]

5200 was rated horsepower peak for a 383 magnum, not the redline.
440 magnum hp was rated at 4600. Do you think it quit at 4700? Original Sixpack motors rated at 4700 were failing when owners spun them to 6000 in 69, so Mopar beefed them up in 70.
(and i dont for a minute believe a stock 74 360 Duster ran anywhere near a 13.50. 15.50, I would absolutely believe. Those "pure stockers" are NOT stock!)

For sure, I know somebody that has run a bone stock '73 360 Duster many many times, best times in good air 14.80-14.90's.

 

[Killer6]

Didn’t realize that the ‘71 383 was detuned that much. I apologize to all for posting incorrect info, makes the comparison a little more skewed. If the engine in that Challenger was truly built to factory ‘71 specs that would definitely account for the lower performance.

It also would make sense the converter was detuned to match.

I would bet the 383 was saddled w/a 625cfm AVS, the TQ&Intake on the SB was far superior, betting with cam regs & starving for air the 383 didn't have a chance.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I would bet the 383 was saddled w/a 625cfm AVS, the TQ&Intake on the SB was far superior, betting with cam regs & starving for air the 383 didn't have a chance.

The 383 got a Thermoquad option in 71. I've had a 71 383 TQ intake in my hand before. I shouldda kept it.

 

[rmchrgr]

I would be willing to bet a lot of these guys have never seen a bonafide real 383HP equipped car.

I drove one regulalry for years and for 1,000s of miles so I do in fact have a good deal of first hand experience with that particular combo. The car was 1 of 934 383/4bbl equipped Coronet 440s so it was basically a Super Bee. I posted a quick video of it, see post #80. Sounded OK.

Pistons in that particular 383 were above deck, I think .018". The OE 906 heads needed guides so they were replaced with a set of 452 heads that had been milled. Those later castings are usually 90-92 so figure 88cc chamber after being cut. Steel shim head gasket. Math says 9.8:1 compression.The existing valve train parts were swapped between the castings. This was all done with the short block in the car.

No windage tray but it had a double roller timing chain. Electronic distributor, clutch fan. Eventually it got a set of full length Hooker headers and an Edelbrock Performer intake which is essentially a copy of the stock intake in aluminum so no real advantage to it other than weight. So OK, not 100% bone stock but not a race motor or even a hot street machine since the OE cam was in it. 16º initial timing and if I recall correctly 34º total.

Again, it was just not impressive even with the 4 speed. It was tuned pretty well so maybe just chalk it up to the fact that some engines just perform better than others.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I drove one regulalry for years and for 1,000s of miles so I do in fact have a good deal of first hand experience with that particular combo. The car was 1 of 934 383/4bbl equipped Coronet 440s so it was basically a Super Bee. I posted a quick video of it, see post #80. Sounded OK.

Pistons in that particular 383 were above deck, I think .018". The OE 906 heads needed guides so they were replaced with a set of 452 heads that had been milled. Those later castings are usually 90-92 so figure 88cc chamber after being cut. Steel shim head gasket. Math says 9.8:1 compression.The existing valve train parts were swapped between the castings. This was all done with the short block in the car.
View attachment 1716247910

No windage tray but it had a double roller timing chain. Electronic distributor, clutch fan. Eventually it got a set of full length Hooker headers and an Edelbrock Performer intake which is essentially a copy of the stock intake in aluminum so no real advantage to it other than weight. So OK, not 100% bone stock but not a race motor or even a hot street machine since the OE cam was in it. 16º initial timing and if I recall correctly 34º total.

Again, it was just not impressive even with the 4 speed. It was tuned pretty well so maybe just chalk it up to the fact that some engines just perform better than others.

I saw it. Sounded good to me.

 

[318willrun]

So I had a few key things in mind when I created this thread..... I'll throw one of them out there...

360 allows the choice of either 904 or 727. I am a huge fan of the 904 in A-bodies. Lighter, fits better, more room around the headers. 904 is not an option with the 383 without a very expensive adaptor.

Besides the ability to run a 904 ......
I'll offer that the LA 360 was offered in a roller cam, which can be a pretty big deal. So back to the A-body scenario, a roller 360 with a 904 in a Duster per say?? That's a nice set up!

 

[318willrun]

My brother had a '69 Charger with a 383 4-speed. Very solid car, but terrible interior and paint (should we say no paint?). "If I could turn back the clock"... as we all say..

 

[sr71mopar]

Rockers cost about the same. So we are talking about carb, intake, cam, and headers. All things being equal, in my experience, the 383 will destroy the 360. Just don't over cam it.

 

[junkyardhero]

Besides the ability to run a 904 ......
I'll offer that the LA 360 was offered in a roller cam, which can be a pretty big deal. So back to the A-body scenario, a roller 360 with a 904 in a Duster per say?? That's a nice set up!

i'll poist that roller cam'd 360's were in such a narrow window that it shouldn't be included unless you also include the magnum.

 

[318willrun]

i'll poist that roller cam'd 360's were in such a narrow window that it shouldn't be included unless you also include the magnum.

Well, the 5.9 magnum is a 360. But I'm just saying that even the LA roller 360's are not all that hard to nab. Every LA360 made for at least a 4-year stretch was a roller block, and that dates about 20+ years after the 383 deceased. Certainly not a needle in the haystack. Think of all the Vans, Pickups, Dually's that came with 360's in those years.....

 

[junkyardhero]

i feel ya there. i just don't see them out in the wild all that often. and if i'm going thru the rigamarole of a roller, might as well go another that full step further and just go magnum. but that's just me.

no argument on the availability of clapped out vans vs 383's

EDIT: challenge accepted

1990 Dodge Ram Van B250 for sale by owner - Covina, CA - craigslist

1990 dodge ram 150 El captain. Good engine, was put on 2016. Runs good. Transmission is good tires are good. Interior is clean. The window to the passenger side is not working

losangeles.craigslist.org

383 Mopar 1968 for Sale in Long Beach, CA - OfferUp

Used (normal wear), Complete motor and trans out of an all original 68 charger , ran when it came out , but its all original and tired , will need a rebuild to freshen up as expected, only 42000 miles on motor and trans . Make an offer!;

offerup.com

 

[318willrun]

i feel ya there. i just don't see them out in the wild all that often. and if i'm going thru the rigamarole of a roller, might as well go another that full step further and just go magnum. but that's just me.

no argument on the availability of clapped out vans vs 383's

EDIT: challenge accepted

http://[URL][URL]https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/d/covina-roomy-van/7743777974.html

[/URL][/URL]

http://[URL][URL]https://offerup.com/item/detail/1ea43153-371d-3695-ade1-4efa01c14c73?q=mopar+383

[/URL][/URL]

I just opened marketplace and immediately see this... LOL
mopar 360 v8

LA roller in good shape they say... 200 bucks