4 speed ka-booom !

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Good times. Really want to make one of these
scrp_0506_floorjack_modifications_10_z.jpg


it isn't until it hits your chest that it becomes heavy hahahaha
I have Yukon axles. They are 1/4 too short. Ripped the splines off the ends of the axles. Which is fine with my new single spline side gears. (Thanks again dr diff)
I thought it was the trans as well.
 
So as all now know the tranny ismostly blown apart. I juat bought a manual. I see on brewers where they talk about counter shaft end play. I haven't been able to get any reference in the manual.
My question is - what are the factory tolerances?
I assume (and I don't like too!) That tolerances are adjusted with different thicknesses of brass shims?
And lastly could I pre check with a dry run ? It doesn't seem the counter shaft would get longer or shorter with needle bearings - lol but I'm asking because I'd be assuming :D
 
Yup, can check without needle bearings. Just set box on it's head. I've never seen selective washers. I've never seen one not dial in with new washers.Or with good used ones for that matter.
Endplay is .015 to .029

From post 15; But 30 passes on a small 8.75, and a noisy one at that; I would be looking into her. Especially since you say it worked in reverse, which drives the pinion backwards. I suspect the pinion nut worked loose and it climbed into the ring-gear.

When you drive the pinion backwards, as in reversing, the pinion if loose will be forced forwards out of the ring gear, making movement possible. When driving it in a forward gear, the pinion will walk into the ring gear, jamming it up.
 
^^^ Thank You AJ its just when I look at the new transmissions that Brewers performance they make it sound like they're doing something special to the countershaft in their advertisement. They're great and all, I'm going to buy my rebuilt kit from them and anything else that I need. I'm sure I'm going to put new shifter levers and some other things. maybe synchros if need be I need to finish taking it apart and getting things inspected. While I have you here I'd also like to ask about taking the synchro gears off. the manual stressed making sure all that went back together exactly the way it came out as far as the gears off the synchro it seems like or the slider I guess is what I'm saying. I had obviously the brass ring between the main shaft and the input shaft fall out as it seems to just hang in there and they were making a big thing in the book about making sure that stuff goes back in the way it came out. But I'm not sure it doesn't seem like they're saying anything more than to make it fit in those three grooves? I don't know if it has to fit in those three grooves the way it came out which is lost information now it just fell out.

I talked to dr.dif (cass) yesterday and he said if the ring gear and pinion have chewed off the teeth then I'm pretty toast. If one of the caps broke that Maybe something else. But it's looking like Dana 60. I let a friend come over and listen to the rear end and he just laughed and said it's toast.
 
j par, I'm sorry, I'm just not understanding you post
Ok, I think I'm getting it.
The brass rings go in any old way, as long as the struts are engaged in the proper areas. You will want to swap those brass rings all around anyway. Typically, the 2nd ring wears out the fastest, and the 4th hardly wears at all. What I do is grab the input gear in one hand, and drop a brass ring on it. I eyeball the distance between the flat face of the ring, and the front face of the clutching teeth. I check them all like this and line them up from the highest sitting to the lowest sitting, highest on the left. Then I go back and make sure every one grabs the cone with just the lightest amount of pressure. The brass should lock on to the cone with just a bit of pressure.If it doesn't lock onto at least one gear, it's junk. If any ring wobbles on the cone, it is oval, and junk.Replace it. Any ring that has fallen is suspect. Now the rings are lined up from highest sitting and locking, to the lowest. The leftest is the best one. Now take that best ring and place it lightly on each other gear. Line the gears up the same way, except from the one on which the ring sits the lowest, to the highest, again from left to right.If the input gear is not on the far left, make it so. Now, slide the brass rings over, one at a time, so that each ring lines up with a gear below it. The best ring goes on the worst cone, and so on. In this way, the rings can be reused. Brand new rings are not guaranteed to work. They must be checked for wobble and their locking ability. If you have a lathe, I would chuck each gear on it and rough up the cones with 100grit emery cloth. Just a light touch. There's no spec(at least I've never come across one) for the distance between the flat face of the brass ring, to the clutch teeth face. If it get's to be too small, then the struts like to flip out the backside after a shift, making it impossible to get the tranny out of that gear.When it gets to zero, it no longer works.... I would estimate, thats estimate, that .020 is approaching the limit on 4th, and the other gears could be a little less, maybe .008-.012. The 4th cone needs the extra cuz it sits quite far away from the slider, so it needs all the help it can get. But honestly, gaps this small, just mean you'll be pulling the tranny again soon to put new rings in. How soon?can't say. Depends on how you drive, and the oil quality, I guess.
-Another long-winded AJ answer
 
skep419 said:
Good times. Really want to make one of these
scrp_0506_floorjack_modifications_10_z.jpg


it isn't until it hits your chest that it becomes heavy hahahaha
I have Yukon axles. They are 1/4 too short. Ripped the splines off the ends of the axles. Which is fine with my new single spline side gears. (Thanks again dr diff)
I thought it was the trans as well.
Click to expand...

That is genius!
 
Hard to see from pic's, but that trans look's good from here, buy the rebuild kit from Wayne at Brewers, and reassemble the tran's. Oh, just out of curiosity did you check the splines on the main shaft? If there good I'm thinking your barking up the wrong tree. Get an interior snap ring pliers, and dissasemble that main shaft, take pic's so you have a good reference when putting it back together. If you have any questions just shoot me a message, there not very complicated.
Jeff
 
AJ/FormS said:
j par, I'm sorry, I'm just not understanding you post
Ok, I think I'm getting it.
The brass rings go in any old way, as long as the struts are engaged in the proper areas. You will want to swap those brass rings all around anyway. Typically, the 2nd ring wears out the fastest, and the 4th hardly wears at all. What I do is grab the input gear in one hand, and drop a brass ring on it. I eyeball the distance between the flat face of the ring, and the front face of the clutching teeth. I check them all like this and line them up from the highest sitting to the lowest sitting, highest on the left. Then I go back and make sure every one grabs the cone with just the lightest amount of pressure. The brass should lock on to the cone with just a bit of pressure.If it doesn't lock onto at least one gear, it's junk. If any ring wobbles on the cone, it is oval, and junk.Replace it. Any ring that has fallen is suspect. Now the rings are lined up from highest sitting and locking, to the lowest. The leftest is the best one. Now take that best ring and place it lightly on each other gear. Line the gears up the same way, except from the one on which the ring sits the lowest, to the highest, again from left to right.If the input gear is not on the far left, make it so. Now, slide the brass rings over, one at a time, so that each ring lines up with a gear below it. The best ring goes on the worst cone, and so on. In this way, the rings can be reused. Brand new rings are not guaranteed to work. They must be checked for wobble and their locking ability. If you have a lathe, I would chuck each gear on it and rough up the cones with 100grit emery cloth. Just a light touch. There's no spec(at least I've never come across one) for the distance between the flat face of the brass ring, to the clutch teeth face. If it get's to be too small, then the struts like to flip out the backside after a shift, making it impossible to get the tranny out of that gear.When it gets to zero, it no longer works.... I would estimate, thats estimate, that .020 is approaching the limit on 4th, and the other gears could be a little less, maybe .008-.012. The 4th cone needs the extra cuz it sits quite far away from the slider, so it needs all the help it can get. But honestly, gaps this small, just mean you'll be pulling the tranny again soon to put new rings in. How soon?can't say. Depends on how you drive, and the oil quality, I guess.
-Another long-winded AJ answer
Click to expand...
Thats not long winded, that's informational and thank you !! I was planning on getting 4 new synchro brass rings and the little slide tab synchro tabs. I would like to get the little tabs that come out of the transmission for the first and second and third and fourth shifters there a little boogerd up. I will heed your warning to check everything that is new to make sure it's actually correct. I think I'm going to be able to have time to take it apart tomorrow. Again everything's out but I haven't taken anything off the main shaft.
 
The late style struts may look ugly, but they go nearly forever. The early style are a lot more likely to need replacing. When you get to taking those sliders apart, grab all 4 springs and stretch them open until the ends are a good half inch further apart than what they started at.Try to get them close to the same.

I don't get "tabs". Are you talking about the shift levers that are located in the cover? The only time I might consider changing them is if the stud threads are stripped, or if the flats that locate the external levers are severely rounded.
It would help if you could find a picture and learn the names of all the parts.
 
AJ/FormS said:
The late style struts may look ugly, but they go nearly forever. The early style are a lot more likely to need replacing. When you get to taking those sliders apart, grab all 4 springs and stretch them open until the ends are a good half inch further apart than what they started at.Try to get them close to the same.

I don't get "tabs". Are you talking about the shift levers that are located in the cover? The only time I might consider changing them is if the stud threads are stripped, or if the flats that locate the external levers are severely rounded.
It would help if you could find a picture and learn the names of all the parts.
Click to expand...

Yes , the shift levers. Stripped - rounded . I'll do some play by play pictures tomorrow as I get more deeply in trouble #-o lol
 
Earlier in the thread I refered to the slider shoe, this is what I was talking about, they get pretty banged up, and I always swap out the strut key's, and spring's too, there the little tab's your talking about, and there about $9 on ebay, you will need to know what you have, the early or late style, the early ones are narrower, 71 on up would be wider ones, which I'm assuming you have. I taper the ends of the slider shoe, and get them hardened, also these are the snap ring pliers I use, and they work awesome!
View attachment IMG_0901.jpg

View attachment IMG_0908.jpg

View attachment IMG_0920.jpg

View attachment IMG_0921.jpg
 
Thank you for the pictures and tips. And reminding me I need to get better pliers .
 
This is 99% dragstrip use. It would be nice to straight shift and not unload the rearend when shifting.
 
jtkaaa07 said:
Noted in pic is where I taper them back so there not a flat, straight edge, which help's tremendously, while shifting!
View attachment 1714847715
Click to expand...

How far do you taper them back? Do you have a picture of a modified hub?
Just to be sure are you talking about the sides of the "teeth" or the front and rear flat area or the top (the arrows point at the corner so I'm not 100% sure)?

what do you use for tapering and how do you get them hardened (nitrating, cryo-treatment, heating/cooling)?
 
j par said:
This is 99% dragstrip use. It would be nice to straight shift and not unload the rearend when shifting.
Click to expand...

Cheapest option, look into the old "slick shift" modification. Its a poor mans transmission mod. Better than that would be send your gears to liberty gear and have them "pro shifted" Even better YET...........buy a jerico. But, with that clutch you have, your just going to keep breaking center sections and axles until you go dana 60......Its fun as hell tho!
 
ChargerST said:
How far do you taper them back? Do you have a picture of a modified hub?
Just to be sure are you talking about the sides of the "teeth" or the front and rear flat area or the top (the arrows point at the corner so I'm not 100% sure)?

what do you use for tapering and how do you get them hardened (nitrating, cryo-treatment, heating/cooling)?
Click to expand...

I'm talking about the front rand rear edges of the slider, sorry for the arrow placement, kind of in a hurry when I did it. I taper the back about 30 degrees, but only from the middle of the edge up to the top of the edge, not a whole bunch, but just enough to make a smooth transition. I don't have any pic's of one done at the moment, I have the guy that does my axles harden them for me, I'm not 100% sure which method he uses.
 
Well I was hard pressed to find much wrong so far. I got the reverse out of the case and a couple things out of the tail housing. I took all 4 of the cast parts to the machine shop and they're being hot tanked tonight. I also took the input shaft with fourth gear to get the bearing pressed off and also the tail shaft to get its bearing pressedd off. I brought my counter gear and third gear all to be looked at and all was given the go ahead. So it'll be a couple days before I get that stuff back. Of course I'll get the rebuild kit, 4 new synchros and new shift arms.
 
jtkaaa07 said:
I'm talking about the front rand rear edges of the slider, sorry for the arrow placement, kind of in a hurry when I did it. I taper the back about 30 degrees, but only from the middle of the edge up to the top of the edge, not a whole bunch, but just enough to make a smooth transition. I don't have any pic's of one done at the moment, I have the guy that does my axles harden them for me, I'm not 100% sure which method he uses.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation! So you cut the red part in the picture.

This is the first time I hear about this mod. What does it actually do? As far as I know the synchro rings ride against this edge. The slider/sleeve is always in contact with the drum/hub so it wouldn't be effected by the taper - and the synchro rings aren't effected as well..
or am I wrong?

I attached a picture for clarification:
 

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The brass rings may appear to ride against that surface, but in fact, they park against the little struts, or rather float there. The slider, has the struts pressed up into it by the energizer spring. When you initiate a shift the slider carries the struts forward which then push the ring forward against the coneclutch of a gear. This squeezes out the oil and begins the braking action, synchronizing the speeds between the two. When the speeds are reasonably close the slider overpowers the strut spring, and slides all the way forward and over the clutch teeth.The points on the teeth help to guide the slider over, during the final travel. They are now locked up and the shift is complete. The entire procedure takes but a moment, and depends on the brass braking the cone, and the energizer springs pressing the struts into the slider. If either are lazy, the shift will be slow, sloppy or grindy. I always marvel at how well that system works.

If you drop the hub into the slider, on the bench, you will see that the area that you have outlined with a wedge cut, only comes close to the slider. I have never cut that area in any box, and my trannys shift like lightning, as high as 7200(or more).I'm not saying it won't help, I just never saw the need for it. IMO it would be more beneficial to ensure the slider doesn't stick to the hub, as it's moving forward. If you examine the hub, you will see all the wear marks that the slider has made on it, from transmitting torque through it, from the slider to the mainshaft. Those areas I cut or poish, as may be required. Remember that during this sliding action, the clutch is disengaged and from the sliders viewpoint the tranny is in neutral.There is no torque being transmitted at this time. However, if this area is smoothed the shift effort may be decreased. Which is important if you have a really short stick like I have,(don't even think it),or you are a girl.
For street driving, you can't beat the H-pattern shifter. I tried the V-gate;at the track it was dynomite. But on the street, back-shifting was such a pain, literally, I pulled that thing, and it's been on the shelf ever since. And yes, I reworked that thing every which way possible to improve it's workings. In the end, I went back to what I knew worked.
There are way more important other areas to cut.
 
AJ/FormS said:
I tried the V-gate;at the track it was dynomite. But on the street, back-shifting was such a pain, literally, I pulled that thing, and it's been on the shelf ever since.
Click to expand...
I bought a v-gate and have been looking for someone who has the bracket so I can get a copy on a piece of paper.
have you been holding out on me?

View attachment $_3.jpg

$139 for that? I don't think so !
 
Hey, another thing you can do is talk to Jamie at passon transmission, they offer a "slick shift" kit, which would be a improvement over the factory synchos, but still streetable. They also sell all the small parts, including "selective" washers for your endplay. I think you can replace those brass shift forks with steel ones, much stronger........
 
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