440 blocks stroked/bored to 528 @ 13-1?

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that's too bad on your buddy's Dad. Eventually all these are really is just cars. People matter.
Jeg's has an MP that's $2900 that will ship tomorrow. I'm sure it's limited in terms of capability and quality - some of the MP stuff is basically no better than a factory in terms of wall strength the machining needs to be checked - on everything... Part of the reason for a better block is good rigid walls. The thing is, factory blocks will make power, and will last to some extent. But you have to buy the parts and pay to have them fitted properly after you pay to buy the core, have it cleaned, and have it sonic tested. For a bracket car my feeling is you dont want to need to raise the hood or freshen or worry and there's almost always a need to go faster. just my opinion on that tho. MRL's right that filling and aluminum caps are the cheapesst way out.
 
airwoofer said:
So the root cause of the #2 web in the stock block failing was the dampener was worn out? Was it then allowing the crank to vibrate (harmonics) and that failed the #2 web? What were the cockpit symptoms of the web cracking? Oil pressure dropped? I doubt it would make much noise due to being constrained and the lack of mufflerage.

Is this the first block to fail of the one that had a blower on it with alum rods? I see cross bolted steel caps kinda like the ones I saw being installed into a 440 block locally.

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That KB block looks nice, same with the alum World block.
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that pic is of the orange mega block. it was the first one with the supercharger on. lasted just long enough to get my comp license then came apart when we took it out to get a good tune-up on it. this is a pic of the kb stg 10. from my experience as you can see in these two pics the mega block was $2700+ or - the kb was $5000. i am on a budget like almost everyone so i went with the mega first, broke it into an unrepairable piece of high nickle cast iron. now i have to buy another block and went to the best repairable one out there, the kb10 is solid aluminum. so if it's in your budget spend $5000 first and don't take the chance and have to spend $7700 total later.
 

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moparlover said:
how about the blower behind the block to the right?
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top pic is a friends mooneyham 14-71 and buzzard. it had a standard large bottom opening and was used. the mega block is under it. my friend had a disagreement and left.

the bottom pic is my littlefield 14-71 and buzzard, the one setting behind motor in the other pic in another post. this supercharger has a delta opening and front discharge and it was rebuilt, a much better blower by far. the kb 10 is under it.
 

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airwoofer said:
I am salivating over thet KB block. Like those Oberg filters too.
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The KB is looking like the best option for this build. I really only want to do this once and race instead of build/rebuild engines. Besides, it's nice to have "room to grow". Thanks for the advice guys. Love FABO.

They are using forged blocks on the top fuel motors now. I tried to talk them into a technology development program with laser sintered titanium (has forged properties) at near net shape like the military and aircraft manufacturers are doing, but no luck. Heck, I was even gonna volunteer to be the guinnie pig.
 
My buddy crews a Ford on the west coast. It's currently running a Chrysler Hemi as I understand it, but previously it was running a billet block and billet heads in some Ford configuration. Again - MRLs dead on. Money, and more money...lol.
 
Great thread,some serious hardware on display .I love learning,the good stuff.Thanks!
 
airwoofer said:
Yeah, Bob isn't fooling around. Check out his photos on his sig link.

I only need 750-800 for what I want to run (6.0)
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reading about the 6.0 you posted brings me to my next to the last try at a full 1/8th mile run. the hotrod started out just fine and pulled it's self out of the hole pretty dang good i thought, actually it sacres me it's so dang quick. pulled the fronts off about 2' which is about perfect for me. hooking up just right but for some reason it was missing a tad. anyway it took off and i felt the pump sizer open up and then it started to make more power and was pullin even harder but was still missing. when i got it in high gear it was still missing so i left out of it and coasted across the finish line. my buddy "ed" came and towed me and the hotrod back to the pit area and i checked the time ticket under the stadium lights, it had a 6.0 on it. i can't recall the mph right now but i was pretty happy with the et as i think the old hotrod might have a 5.0 in it, which is what i'm shooting for when i finally get her sorted out.
 
Darn, it takes that much motor to get a 6.0 1/8 ET? I am new to this sport and have never ran a money race, just TnTing with buds learning how to get down the track and building track cred. BTW, that cred is important and some guy showing up with fancy stuff can lose it all in one pass. Saw a red Mopar pro mod do just that as his wife couldn't get him into the lights and the other lane had to let off after getting his car up and running twice. Broke his blower belt the third time. Track also at fault there.

I will be running my old junk Demon that was basically stripped and left for dead, now pretty'd up and getting rebuilt, with my street SB engine/conv/tranny combo that should do a little under 7 since it is lighter, now more stuff under the throttle, and better rear end. Will be using the same 275/60 DRs I had on the fish (but on 10" wheels instead of the 8" I had on the fish) to keep that baseline.

The big block will probably be eased into the low 7's and below as I build confidence in me and the car and also buildup said creds. Later this summer at the earliest.
 
OK, lets now consider another thing - piston speed. Is it a limiting factor in a build when durability is desired (and who doesn't want their junk to be durable)?

http://www.csgnetwork.com/pistonspeedcalc.html

http://hpwizard.com/mean-piston-speed.html

There are some numbers out there that suggest that the speed should be kept under 4000 FPM (20 M/S) or so. So for my 416 with a 4" arm that would be 6000 RPM, about where the power starts falling off per the dyno. On the 520 BB (4.375" arm) that RPM at 4000 FPM is only 5500 RPM. What's the point of a big cam and big flowing heads?

The following maximum piston speeds are from the book, Performance Tuning in
Theory and Practice, by A.G.Bell.

Stock Motor - 3,500 fpm (cast crank, stock rods and cast
piston)
Heavy Duty Motor - 4,000 fpm (forged crank, peened rods w/ good
bolts, forged piston)
Drag Racing Motor - 5,000 fpm (forged crank, alum rods, lighweight
pistons, etc.)

So FABO engine gurus, what say ye?
 
i think of a few things when i think durability
-good build, all clearances/balance/squareness checked
-external oiling / proper oiling mods
-rev limiter (for when you miss a gear or something breaks)
-proper fuel for compression:ratio
-proper tune a/f ratio
-right heat range for plugs (not too hot)
-good cooling
-h-beam rods

piston speed is secondary to all those things
 
I don't thing rod length affects the speed of the piston as that is a function of crank arm and RPMs. Speed is max at the rod throw 90* from TDC/BDC, as the piston accellerates from 0 through max speed, then back to 0, twice per revolution. That is why high revving engines have short strokes.

H beams - cause the pile of parts I bought has the 440 source H beams in it. I always thought H beams were stronger for the weight anyways. But now I have to deal with the freakin 440 source crank. I kinda feel like waging an online war on their quality reputation for this one:

It has the hole they drill through the rod throw pin to lighten the crank, screwed up! Drill was not centered on the rod pin like the other 3 throws, and it does not go all the way through! It went through their complete process that way including a "Balance by Bob", who they seem to be proud of. Called 440 Source and they don't believe it and besides, it was sold 4 yrs ago to the guy I bought the parts from, not them.

So now I have to either run something that is questionable (not my style), or get another crank and balance it with the parts I have. Damn...
 
In terms of engine design piston speed is critical. The faster the piston speed, the better the induction and exh systems (assuming they are optimized) work. RPM is king because regardless of the engine size, the more firing events per minute the more power to the crank. Remember HP is torque over time.
It's getting way into theory - but yes, rod length and stroke both affect mean and peak piston speeds, and yes the parts chosen have to meet those performance expectations or things come apart - quick.
Because of the angles between the rod and crank and piston max piston speed occurs at around 70° ATDC on the intake and IIRC it's closer to 80 ABDC on the exh stroke. You might think it's 90 but I think that would be the case only if the piston was straight on the rod. Trig was never my strong point but that's what the pros say...lol.
As far as reasons a shorter stroke might rev better: less friction, lower pumping losses, and more effective use of the intake and exh systems (again - assuming they are optimized). There are plenty of 600" engines that run to 7 or 8K rpms and a Formula One V8 will rev to 20K... So it's not a limitation of parts.
 
here's a few of the motor waiting for oil and i still need to treat the slicks. the last pic is the new caps/condensers i install on the mag.
 

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That thing is pure eye ****!!

Here is a recent article with a similar build to what I am working. Teo things that struck me is how different the Indy heads look now than they did when they CNC'd the ones I bought, which were done late 2007/early 2008. The ones in the article are the 345 CNC 440-1 and the chambers look as cast while mine have very visible maching remnants remaining. They are so rough around the spark plugs that they will need to be cleaned up to remove the coarse material to avoid detonation. That will increase CCs. My ports also show the as-machined finish and probably will get smoothed up a tad also. So this build has more stroke, same bore, similar heads, about the same cam but with 0.050 more lift with the same 1.6 rocker ratio... and it has similar CR. Only made a little over 700 HP. Wonder why, maybe not enough carb or the cam was put in too advanced/retarded which is hard to determine cause they couldn't make up their mind in the story.

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http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...211_building_a_bracket_big_block/viewall.html

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...racket_big_block_monster_indy_cylinder_heads/
 
in one artical they use a 4.50" stroke and in the other one they use a 4.25" stroke.
you mentioned the rough spots around the spark plug holes causing detonation but wouldn't the aluminum melt before that happened?
 
Well, I am gonna dump the 440 source 520" rotating kit. Just don't like the long stroke for the piston speeds. Now looking into a 528 with 4.500 bore x 4.150 stroke. This will be similar to the Indy 500" 800 HP crate motor but with a tad more bore and maybe a 7.100 long rod to keep the ratio up. The 500" crate motor uses the same heads and cam and carb I will be using, so with a tad more bore it should run about the same.

Bob, any idea why that alum rod let go? Nobody I have talked with likes water alum blocks unless you fill them. The bores are not stable enough "they" say. What kind of RPMs were you turning the motor at when the rod let loose?
 
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