5.9 stroker build

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RBConvert

RBConvert

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I've been moving along with the teardown of the 5.9 magnum in my Dart, its time I started a thread on my progress.
This is Dart:
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I've owned the car since 2012. It was originally a /6 auto and the previous owner swapped in the magnum 360/380 hp crate motor, Keisler Engineering TKO 5 spd, and -489 8 3/4 SG with 4.11 gears. It's manual brake and manual steering. The PO did a nice job on the swap so for the past 10+ years I've been adding upgrades here and there. In 2017 I rebuilt the front end using PST parts, boxed the LCAs, welded in SFC. In 2022 I updated the interior with ProCar bucket seats, new carpeting, and 3 pt seat belts. At the same time I pulled the IP and did a DIY restore on the gauges and fixed some minor wiring issues. But for the most part, it's just regular maintenance as the car has been new-car reliable.
 
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Back to the engine. Mopar released a handful of 5.9 magnum crate motors in the early-to-mid 2000's. They were all cast iron blocks with cast iron magnum heads. This version was rated at 380 hp and 410 ft-lbs of torque. CR was 9.0:1, with an aggressive 230/234 @ 0.50 duration, .501/.513 lift @ 1.6; 108° LSA. Topped with a M1 single plane intake. Currently it has a Eddy 750 carb and TTI headers. The car has been stone-cold reliable; it's been to Spring Fling twice, camping in the Sierras, and overall driven about 2,000 miles a year and never left me stranded.
I'm a big proponent of the axiom "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I'm disobeying my own rule on this build.
 
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I like the 5.9 Magnums, especially with a stroker kits, EFI and ported heads. I'm putting together a supercharged version for my '68 that has a similar build story.
 
I've been skimming through the "Rebuilding the Mopar small block" books that are available along with watching some YouTube videos on the subject.
Last night I saw one of those shows from the mid 2000s with a couple of guys that never got dirty, they were probably just actors that spoke in proper cadence, stood the way they were supposed to and smiled a lot. Those shows sometimes have the guys talk about the next thing they are going to do , then go to a commercial then return with the task completed....skipping right over some key points.
One was where they took a Magnum series block and put Edelbrock heads on it. I've read that when you switch from the rocker arm/hollow pushrod oiling that the Magnums had to a traditional LA series head, something has to be done to get oil to the rocker shafts. That one video skipped right past that which is a terrible disservice to any newbie that wanted to take their advice on a similar build.
I only learned a couple months ago that the Magnum blocks had a slightly shorter deck height.
I just read recently how small the combustion chambers are in the Magnum heads too. 60 ccs ? That is crazy!
The OP has the great fortune of a rich environment HERE, there are several well informed and helpful members that are sure to chime in with advice with this project.

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Kern Dog said:
I've been skimming through the "Rebuilding the Mopar small block" books that are available along with watching some YouTube videos on the subject.
Last night I saw one of those shows from the mid 2000s with a couple of guys that never got dirty, they were probably just actors that spoke in proper cadence, stood the way they were supposed to and smiles a lot. Those shows sometimes have the guys talk about the next thing they are going to do , then go to a commercial then return with the task completed....skipping right over some key points.
One was where they took a Magnum series block and put Edelbrock heads on it. I've read that when you switch from the rocker arm/hollow pushrod oiling that the Magnums had to a traditional LA series head, something has to be done to get oil to the rocker shafts. That one video skipped right past that which is a terrible disservice to any newbie that wanted to take their advice on a similar build.
I only learned a couple months ago that the Magnum blocks had a slightly shorter deck height.
I just read recently how small the combustion chambers are in the Magnum heads too. 60 ccs ? That is crazy!
The OP has the great fortune of a rich environment HERE, there are several well informed and helpful members that are sure to chime in with advice with this project.

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There are Edlebrock Magnum heads. As well as LA heads.
 
I’m following along as well. I am a big fan of the magnums. I bet that car was a riot to drive with the stick, 4:11 gears, and the 380 crate. Have you ever made a pass in it?
 
Kern Dog said:
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TT5.9mag said:
I’m following along as well. I am a big fan of the magnums. I bet that car was a riot to drive with the stick, 4:11 gears, and the 380 crate. Have you ever made a pass in it?
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Not really. In 2018 we took the Dart to Willow Springs track day while on route to Spring Fling. On the front straightaway they started lining up cars for impromptu street drag racing. I lined up next to Dwayne, he's a FBBO member with a stroked 400" in a 68 Sport Satellite. He blew my doors off. That day planted the seed of what is now in full bloom. While 380/410 are decent numbers, they're barely noticeable next to V6 minivans.



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The MP crate engines seemed to follow the common MP practice of favoring long duration with short lift camshaft specs.
The old "Purple Shaft" catalogs showed the Big block cams like the 280/474, the 284/484, the 292/509. Looking at those, compare them to modern grinds that have similar duration numbers with a LOT more lift...
 
Kern Dog said:
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@Kern Dog has already started a thread on his 360 roller build The 360 build that has more turns than Willow Springs. It seemed like good timing to start my build, literally side-by-side to his, and Greg was onboard.
As the pics show, we dropped the engine and trans from the bottom. A few reasons: with headers, its easier to drop than to lift out the top. The hood stays on. And the trans is a 15+ year old TKO, from now-defunct Keisler Engineering. It still shifts fine but at the very least the clutch and pressure plate need to be replaced, plus when adding the internally balanced stroker kit, the flywheel had to be either neutral balanced or replaced. Lastly, even though I went through the front suspension in 2017, in January I ordered tubular UCAs, 1.03" T bars, and adjustable strut rods from PST. It's going to be easier to clean up the K member and R&R the suspension pieces out of the car.
 
Here's a few pics before the teardown.
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Disconnecting everything to drop is fairly straightforward. It's the same hoses, wires, etc. that need to be disconnected to go out on top. Additionally the driveshaft has to be disconnected, transmission mount removed, T-bars separated from the LCAs. There's enough room to lower the engine with the radiator still in, but we removed it anyway as an added precaution. The steering column had to come all the way out as the #3 header would've interfered.
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Greg built a dolly specific for engine pulls.
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Seems like yours is more set up street car stuff than drag racing. I had a buddy with a duster in high school with a 380 crate in it. And it ran bottom 12s high elevens on slicks. No minivan would be a match.
So what’s the goal for your car? What do you want out of it?
 
I drove this Dart once.
Rich had mentioned that it wasn't as snappy at low rpms as he would have liked. When I drove it, I didn't rap it up high enough to see how it ran over 4000 rpms. I didn't feel right pushing his car hard. I agree though, it doesn't have much low end grunt. My own 67 Dart looks like a junkyard turd next to Rich's car but out of the hole, I could be faster to 60 feet! Mine is just a basically stock 360 with '308 heads and a mild cam.
It is impressive the power that one can get with a stroked LA or Magnum build. I'm a bit more familiar with the B/RB blocks so some of this stuff is new to us both.
My rebuild is just a basic stock stroke with a .040 overbore. THIS build is a huge leap up from stock....
Since the OP used a Metric Liter description, what does that make a 408? 6.7 liters ??
 
TT5.9mag said:
Seems like yours is more set up street car stuff than drag racing. I had a buddy with a duster in high school with a 380 crate in it. And it ran bottom 12s high elevens on slicks. No minivan would be a match.
So what’s the goal for your car? What do you want out of it?
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You're right, I enjoy driving my cars on the street. The goal is performance that includes comfort and safety, and reliability.
The goal of this build is to raise the hp and torque minimum into the high-400's, while moving the power band lower in the rpm range.
The block will receive a bore and hone, clean and square the decks. The machine shop will install new cam bearings and the oil pump shaft bushing.
It will be a 408" stroker, TF aluminum heads, Eddy RPM AirGap intake, Eddy 800 cfm AVS2 carb, keeping the TTI headers. Hyd roller cam, within the 230 - 236 duration range, > .550 lift, and minimum LSA of 110°.
We're assembling the engine in Greg's shop. This is my first small block engine build, in fact it's only my second build ever. The 440 in the Coronet was built by the machine shop. A friend and I built a 440 for my Charger back in 1985. Honestly, we didn't know what we were doing. We just followed the FSM and the advice from more seasoned car guys. But the engine ran great, all the way up until I sold the car in 1991, so we did something right, or were just lucky.
Today, with the internet, how-to books, and this forum, I armed with a pretty good understanding of matching compatible parts to achieve my goal. A few resources I'm leaning heavily on is the YT channel JustMoparJoe. He's filmed a multi-part series on building a 360. @krazykuda wrote an excellent series of articles on his 360 build. I'm also reading 'How To Rebuild the Small-Block Mopar' by William Burt. @Kern Dog has a wealth of knowledge on small blocks, and A bodies in general and I'm looking forward to going through the build process with him.
And of course there's this forum. I started this thread not only to document my build, but to invite members to comment and advise, and even question some of my decisions. Thank you in advance.
 
Kern Dog said:
Since the OP used a Metric Liter description, what does that make a 408? 6.7 liters ??
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Hmmm. I used 5.9 to differentiate between the magnum and LA blocks. But reverting back to 408" muddies the waters. I'll have to think about that...
 
RBConvert said:
You're right, I enjoy driving my cars on the street. The goal is performance that includes comfort and safety, and reliability.
The goal of this build is to raise the hp and torque minimum into the high-400's, while moving the power band lower in the rpm range.
The block will receive a bore and hone, clean and square the decks. The machine shop will install new cam bearings and the oil pump shaft bushing.
It will be a 408" stroker, TF aluminum heads, Eddy RPM AirGap intake, Eddy 800 cfm AVS2 carb, keeping the TTI headers. Hyd roller cam, within the 230 - 236 duration range, > .550 lift, and minimum LSA of 110°.
We're assembling the engine in Greg's shop. This is my first small block engine build, in fact it's only my second build ever. The 440 in the Coronet was built by the machine shop. A friend and I built a 440 for my Charger back in 1985. Honestly, we didn't know what we were doing. We just followed the FSM and the advice from more seasoned car guys. But the engine ran great, all the way up until I sold the car in 1991, so we did something right, or were just lucky.
Today, with the internet, how-to books, and this forum, I armed with a pretty good understanding of matching compatible parts to achieve my goal. A few resources I'm leaning heavily on is the YT channel JustMoparJoe. He's filmed a multi-part series on building a 360. @krazykuda wrote an excellent series of articles on his 360 build. I'm also reading 'How To Rebuild the Small-Block Mopar' by William Burt. @Kern Dog has a wealth of knowledge on small blocks, and A bodies in general and I'm looking forward to going through the build process with him.
And of course there's this forum. I started this thread not only to document my build, but to invite members to comment and advise, and even question some of my decisions. Thank you in advance.
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Rich, it might go without saying, but I've only been involved in one engine build myself (the 451 in my 68 sport satellite) and I made a mistake when selecting pistons. As Dwayne Porter told me - be mindful to select your cam first and then your pistons to match, considering California fuel octane and your intended max compression ratio, quench, etc. I only talked to Dwayne after my build when fighting a detonation issue (my motor is currently 10.2:1) and had made the mistake of buying my flat top pistons first and then separately chose a cam. The combo works ok, but if I would have chosen the cam first and then sourced the pistons to match I would have a much better motor combo with a reduced compression ratio closer to 9.6:1, allowing me to run more engine timing. When I reviewed my motor build years later with Dwayne Porter, looking for a cam swap recommendation, he told me the cam I had was what he would run and the only solution to my issue was to also swap pistons if I wanted a different cam. So - cam first, then pistons!
 
RBConvert said:
You're right, I enjoy driving my cars on the street. The goal is performance that includes comfort and safety, and reliability.
The goal of this build is to raise the hp and torque minimum into the high-400's, while moving the power band lower in the rpm range.
The block will receive a bore and hone, clean and square the decks. The machine shop will install new cam bearings and the oil pump shaft bushing.
It will be a 408" stroker, TF aluminum heads, Eddy RPM AirGap intake, Eddy 800 cfm AVS2 carb, keeping the TTI headers. Hyd roller cam, within the 230 - 236 duration range, > .550 lift, and minimum LSA of 110°.
We're assembling the engine in Greg's shop. This is my first small block engine build, in fact it's only my second build ever. The 440 in the Coronet was built by the machine shop. A friend and I built a 440 for my Charger back in 1985. Honestly, we didn't know what we were doing. We just followed the FSM and the advice from more seasoned car guys. But the engine ran great, all the way up until I sold the car in 1991, so we did something right, or were just lucky.
Today, with the internet, how-to books, and this forum, I armed with a pretty good understanding of matching compatible parts to achieve my goal. A few resources I'm leaning heavily on is the YT channel JustMoparJoe. He's filmed a multi-part series on building a 360. @krazykuda wrote an excellent series of articles on his 360 build. I'm also reading 'How To Rebuild the Small-Block Mopar' by William Burt. @Kern Dog has a wealth of knowledge on small blocks, and A bodies in general and I'm looking forward to going through the build process with him.
And of course there's this forum. I started this thread not only to document my build, but to invite members to comment and advise, and even question some of my decisions. Thank you in advance.
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Sounds like a good plan and it also sounds like you’ve got your head screwed on correctly. And I’ll second the post above by @68ss and add to pick your octane first, that gives you compression, and that gives you piston with your chamber size. Then camshaft to set the rpm window you’re after.
 
The best that we get here in California at the pump is 91 octane. Adding booster, water injection, E85, reducing timing is all bullshit "fixes" that are not practical or convenient for what is a 100% street car.
For my 440/495, I used dished pistons to stay below 10 to 1. I settled at 9.8 but I also built mine with quench in mind which does add some measure of detonation tolerance.
I was told that a wider bore is more prone to detonation. The 360/5.9 bore is much smaller than a 440 so I'm wondering is you can get away with a bit more squeeze before risking the knock.
 
Kern Dog said:
The best that we get here in California at the pump is 91 octane. Adding booster, water injection, E85, reducing timing is all bullshit "fixes" that are not practical or convenient for what is a 100% street car.
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I’m intimately familiar with our junk 91 octane. I’ve tuned around it for years. It’s not as bad as we all ***** about. I have two turbo charged big block chevys making good steam on junk California 91 currently. It does take some effort to keep ‘em out of detonation. But it’s all in the tuning.
 
TT5.9mag said:
Sounds like a good plan and it also sounds like you’ve got your head screwed on correctly. And I’ll second the post above by @68ss and add to pick your octane first, that gives you compression, and that gives you piston with your chamber size. Then camshaft to set the rpm window you’re after.
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68ss said:
be mindful to select your cam first and then your pistons to match, considering California fuel octane and your intended max compression ratio, quench, etc.
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Both points well taken. I'm ordering this stroker kit from Hughes:
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TF heads measure 60cc combustion chambers, which lowers the CR to 10.3 or 10.4:1, depending on which calculator you use. That's right in the ballpark where I want to be with 91 octane and aluminum heads.
Thanks for reminding me about Dwayne Porter. He has serious street cred both here and on FBBO; I know he's a member on both. I need to start with him on my cam selection.
 
That compression ratio can still be adjusted with the many thicknesses available in head gaskets.
 
RBConvert said:
Both points well taken. I'm ordering this stroker kit from Hughes:
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TF heads measure 60cc combustion chambers, which lowers the CR to 10.3 or 10.4:1, depending on which calculator you use. That's right in the ballpark where I want to be with 91 octane and aluminum heads.
Thanks for reminding me about Dwayne Porter. He has serious street cred both here and on FBBO; I know he's a member on both. I need to start with him on my cam selection.
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I would steer clear of Hughes. Lots of places to get stroker kits. There's a guy in here selling them. Hughes customer service is terrible. Unless you enjoy a guy treating you like you're an idiot over the phone.
 
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