5 quick operation and Maintenance Qs

-
Serj22

Serj22

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
1,231
Reaction score
59
Location
Benicia, CA East Bay
So, I have been driving my dart EVERY SINGLE DAY for the last 3 months. I have put 6k miles on her so far.

It's the 225 / . 1968. The motor is red, and the head is blue. Assuming the head was replaced sometime.

Lets just assume, since I have no idea - That Original owner did whatever he was supposed to do with the car right before he gave it to me and it hit 81k miles. I have it at 87k, and it's never had the Odo rolled over.

First: I'm assuming an oil change would be necessary, but I figured after giving it a new quart of oil every week, that all the original oil blew out the valve cover and plug tubes already. Maybe a full flush would be warranted though? Unfortunately for me no auto parts stores can find the seals for the tubes, and they are visibly blowing oil occasionally. Also no matter how many gaskets ive put on, the valve cover seems to gain too much pressure and blow oil out the sides. I've tried a variety of different breathers, all with the same result.

Second: How often should one adjust the valves on this motor? I have a feeler set, but would I need different tools for this car? I have only ever worked on newer OHC's.

Third: What else should be done in general? Or am I jumping the gun and need to wait longer for more maintenance? The car still has a miss at idle, which I can not find the cause for, and have installed electronic ign., Checked for vacuum leaks, etc. Still can't pinpoint. The car idles around 680 - 750 and when it gets to 1000, the miss stops, and the shaking subsides.

Fourth: I am still having trouble maintaining a heating issue. I have added a reservoir to the radiator to keep the car from puking on the ground, and somehow still lose coolant in very small amounts. The car runs fine around town, but if you keep to freeway speed (70ish) then the car heats up gradually over time till you let it idle down again. I can only be on the freeway for about 20 minutes at a time before the gauge tilts to hot. There's no steam or anything, but it's still a worry.

Fifth: There is a 5 bladed large fan on the motor, but no radiator shroud. I was thinking of making one out of fiberglass and carbon fiber and have the knowledge and parts to make it. My only question would be - is the fan supposed to sit outside the round opening of the shroud, inside it, or should it be halfway through it? I hope that question makes sense.
 
1--blowing out gaskets--Sounds like you might have the PCV/ breather system plugged. There should be a breather plumbed to the air filter bonnet, or at least an "open" free breather, as well as a PCV valve plumbed to the manifold / carb with 3/8 hose

2--adjusting valves-- Some claim "do it running" but I do not. I ALWAYS use the EOIC method, which works on any pushrod engine from a Briggs to a Pratt and Whitney. EOIC means

(get the engine warm, be prepared, and quickly remove valve cover) then turn the engine until......

The EXHAUST valve just starts to OPEN, you adjust the intake on that cylinder.

then you rotate until................

The INTAKE valve opens, starts to close, and is "nearly" CLOSED and you adjust the exhaust valve on that cylinder. I just go from one end of the head to the other. All you need is simple feeler gauges and wrenches

3 -- A good thurough diagnostic tune up. Inspect cap and rotor, inspect, check resistance or replace plug wires, run a simple "balance" test by shorting out each wire. Pull the dist. boots so you can get the wires in/ out easy, use insulated fuse pullers, and a grounded probe. Remove one wire at a time and slide your grounded probe into the dist. tower to short that spark. Alternatively, insert small nails down beside each plug wire in the cap. Just short each one in turn. Watch a tach, and or vacuum gauge, and listen on each cylinder. The tach/ vacuum should drop the same amount, and the engine should "sound and labor" the same on each

Get yourself a timing light, tach/ dwell meter, vacuum gauge, compression tester, a 12 v test lamp and a multimeter. You can buy most/ all of this stuff (multimeter) at Radio shack, all of it at Sears, parts stores, and find it on Craigslist or garage sales

4-- overheating -- sounds like something is plugged, restricting flow. stat, collapsing lower hose, plugged/ dirty radiator or even the block.

5-- forget that idea. You are likely NOT to gain anything, and could very well create a dangerous condition. Most fiberglas fans are worthless.
 
Because the car is relatively new (to you), you really don't know what you have until you gradually go through it. Personally, one of the first things I'd do is a compression check. This will give you a general reading on some of the internals. You know, rings, valves, that kind of thing. If the slant six valve seals are like the V-8's, that would be a relatively easy thing to do which may help with the oil consumption. Also check the PCV valve which also could help with the oil usage.

I have limited experience with slantys but I remember adjusting the valves on a Volare made a difference in how the engine ran and the quietness. A factory service manual will detail how to adjust the various links and stuff on the carb step-by-step. Another thing which could be crossed off your list.

The general rule for shrouds is the fan should be half in and half out. Again because you don't know the history, a new water pump may help because the blades deteriorate with age.
 
Sorry bout the blue text :)

Serj22 said:
So, I have been driving my dart EVERY SINGLE DAY for the last 3 months. I have put 6k miles on her so far.

It's the 225 / . 1968. The motor is red, and the head is blue. Assuming the head was replaced sometime.

Lets just assume, since I have no idea - That Original owner did whatever he was supposed to do with the car right before he gave it to me and it hit 81k miles. I have it at 87k, and it's never had the Odo rolled over.

First: I'm assuming an oil change would be necessary, but I figured after giving it a new quart of oil every week, that all the original oil blew out the valve cover and plug tubes already. Maybe a full flush would be warranted though? Unfortunately for me no auto parts stores can find the seals for the tubes, and they are visibly blowing oil occasionally. Also no matter how many gaskets ive put on, the valve cover seems to gain too much pressure and blow oil out the sides. I've tried a variety of different breathers, all with the same result.

It doesn't really mater how much it leaks, the sediment are still building up in the oil. (So it and the filter still should be changed)

Second: How often should one adjust the valves on this motor? I have a feeler set, but would I need different tools for this car? I have only ever worked on newer OHC's.

Third: What else should be done in general? Or am I jumping the gun and need to wait longer for more maintenance? The car still has a miss at idle, which I can not find the cause for, and have installed electronic ign., Checked for vacuum leaks, etc. Still can't pinpoint. The car idles around 680 - 750 and when it gets to 1000, the miss stops, and the shaking subsides.
This could be a bad valve or too tight an adjustment on the valves.
Feeler gauge is fine.

Fourth: I am still having trouble maintaining a heating issue. I have added a reservoir to the radiator to keep the car from puking on the ground, and somehow still lose coolant in very small amounts. The car runs fine around town, but if you keep to freeway speed (70ish) then the car heats up gradually over time till you let it idle down again. I can only be on the freeway for about 20 minutes at a time before the gauge tilts to hot. There's no steam or anything, but it's still a worry.

This is usually a restriction issue (Not enough flow volume)
Could be a bottom hose sucking closed.
Could be a thermostat not working right.
Could be a partially blocked radiator.
Could be failing waterpump impeller.
Could be sediments in the block that need rinsed out.


Fifth: There is a 5 bladed large fan on the motor, but no radiator shroud. I was thinking of making one out of fiberglass and carbon fiber and have the knowledge and parts to make it. My only question would be - is the fan supposed to sit outside the round opening of the shroud, inside it, or should it be halfway through it? I hope that question makes sense.

First, the shroud would make no difference as far as getting hot on the freeway. (Shroud would be nice though if you can do it)
The fan should be about half in, and half out of the shroud opening.
Click to expand...
 
67dart273 that is an excellently simple explanation on how to adjust the valves. I will be able to tear into that myself no problem. The lower hose does not appear to collapse and looks like a newer hose. The upper hose, however - stays relatively soft, and when you put pressure on it, it shoots coolant back into the radiator. I do not know what's normal in that situation.

Thanks so far everyone.

As for the PCV being clogged, there is a right angle part that goes into the back of the valve cover and is plumbed into the intake. What is needed to clear it out; buy a new one? Or can I blow air through it, or use some paint sprayer needles? Etc... It builds a lot of pressure and continuously blows oil. The same problem exists on the tubes, but no one around has them, or can look them up at all. So if anyone knows where to get some offline, that would be awesome. So far coming up no results. I also don't know what they look like so I would be uninformed in buying the correct part. I'd rather not pop them out because I need to drive it everyday and don't want to risk breaking them further.

So a fan shroud would not help on the freeway?
Also 1/2 in 1/2 out was what I thought it would be. Thanks for clarification.

I'll go ahead and ditch the oil and filter, and replace it as well. I was uncertain if there was a point due to the oil just leaking all onto the ground anyway, but the filter makes sense, as would the sedimentation.

My dad has a Snap-On timing light that has a couple other features on it besides being a timing light (not sure what they are) and was made in the 80s. I have access to that as well as everything else mentioned, so hopefully I am good to go.

When I popped the cap off the dizzy to do the EI install, I cleared quite a bit of oil out of it, which im assuming the plug tubes dripping on it may have caused, or the gear, but the contacts were very clean, so it may already be a new cap. The rotor I installed recently with the EI about 2k miles ago.

Also Kosmickuda, I'm assuming the water pumps are readily available at Napa or similar for these? Looking at the pump itself it seems like it would be a super easy install, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is. It's pretty rusted, but probably been replaced in the last 40 years. If it's cheap I may just go ahead and replace it just for the sake of doing it.
 
I'll second the importance of doing a compression rest. Blowing oil could be a stuck pcv valve, but it could also be bad rings which would mean a full rebuild. (I just went through this on mine)

Change the oil. Get a wix filter. I believe part 51515 but someone correct me if im wrong.

Since you have electronic ignition make sure your spark plugs are gapped to .045

My radiator was doing the same thing. I installed a new spectra one (a 22" a/c one) at the same time as the engine swap and it runs way cool now. No fan shroud or fancy electric fan necessary.
 
I forgot to add my "usual rant." There's a mountain of info in the factory shop manuals. You can download one here for free Thanks to AbodyJoe

[ame]http://www.abodyjoe.com/pictures/Misc.%20car%20info/69%20dodge%20service%20manual.pdf[/ame]
 
Otateral said:
I'll second the importance of doing a compression rest. Blowing oil could be a stuck pcv valve, but it could also be bad rings which would mean a full rebuild. (I just went through this on mine)

Change the oil. Get a wix filter. I believe part 51515 but someone correct me if im wrong.
Click to expand...
You are correct, the filter is 51515. Avoid orange can fram filters whatever you do. Also use 10w-30 motor oil, it is sufficiently slippery and your oil pump drive gear will apreciate it. Use a zinc additive too.

I also am leaning torwards the compression check because for some odd reason my head tells me you have a blown head gasket and thats your cooling issues.
 
/6 Matt said:
You are correct, the filter is 51515. Avoid orange can fram filters whatever you do. Also use 10w-30 motor oil, it is sufficiently slippery and your oil pump drive gear will apreciate it. Use a zinc additive too.

I also am leaning torwards the compression check because for some odd reason my head tells me you have a blown head gasket and thats your cooling issues.
Click to expand...


Found the Wix filter and drained her. Thanks for the P/N because they were having difficulty finding it. No white build up or anything that suggests coolant mix, and nothing up under the valve cover suggested it either. I went ahead and drained all the coolant and ran clean water through it. The coolant that came out was just green, and looked exactly like the stuff I put in; no brown or sludge. I ran clean water through the system, drained it out, and besides a couple dead lady bugs and maybe 1 or 2 specs of dirt - there was nothing. I pulled all the hoses off and cleaned the electro build up off, and replaced all the hoses (except for the little short 3 or 4" one that goes from the pump to the block - that will be done when I get the pump off), and ran a couple longer heater hoses away from the VC (just looks nicer).

On top of that there is no white smoke. I've blown a few head gaskets and replaced them in my time. All had the giant plume of white smoke coming out the pipe, but maybe not all of these are indicative.

Tomorrow I will be driving out to my dad's shop where he has a whole line-up of tools to check compression, timing, etc. and see what's up. I also got a cheapo gapper so when we pop each individual plug out, I can check it for the correct space mentioned earlier, and probably wind up buying new plugs anyway. Thanks for all the help so far everyone. I'd like to get this miss sorted out so the motor doesn't rock at idle. There's not much point building a nice shroud if the fan is going to rock sideways and smack it.

Also, on top of that I ran the car and pulled the pcv elbow thing out of the valve cover. I put my hand over it and the valve compressed, and the idle speed dropped. Let go and it went up, put hand over - compressed, vacuum, and dropped. I'm guessing it's functional?

And yes Trailbeast, you're correct. It's a pertronix kit and is just EI, not the HEI system. When it still had points, the bad idle was a lot worse - A LOT worse. After swapping it it's more of a gentle rock, but the miss is still apparent. I've also been told by a few people that the carbeurator I have just sucks at idling. Could also need to be rebuilt.
 
I think just because you are paying attention to it, it'll live longer but...
If you ever do hear a bottom end knock, shut it down. These engines are notorious for poking the #5 rod right through the left side of the block.
Clogged PVC is very often carbon build up in the steel tube at base of carb where rubber hose is attached. Replacing hose, valve, all is good but also use a drill bit to clean out that steel tube.
Adjusting valves while running is a fun experience. Get'er warmed up then idle down low as it will go, Snatch the cover off and ride the rockers, long goose neck end wrench in one hand, feeler gauge in the other. By the time you get the hang of it you'll wish there were a dozen more in there to adjust.
 
Had my kids watching me while I adjusted my valves, and they couldn't stop laughing at my elbow bouncing up and down while I made the adjustments.
 
No reason in the world to adjust 'em while running.......................
 
Serj22 said:
Found the Wix filter and drained her. Thanks for the P/N because they were having difficulty finding it. No white build up or anything that suggests coolant mix, and nothing up under the valve cover suggested it either. I went ahead and drained all the coolant and ran clean water through it. The coolant that came out was just green, and looked exactly like the stuff I put in; no brown or sludge. I ran clean water through the system, drained it out, and besides a couple dead lady bugs and maybe 1 or 2 specs of dirt - there was nothing. I pulled all the hoses off and cleaned the electro build up off, and replaced all the hoses (except for the little short 3 or 4" one that goes from the pump to the block - that will be done when I get the pump off), and ran a couple longer heater hoses away from the VC (just looks nicer).

On top of that there is no white smoke. I've blown a few head gaskets and replaced them in my time. All had the giant plume of white smoke coming out the pipe, but maybe not all of these are indicative.

Tomorrow I will be driving out to my dad's shop where he has a whole line-up of tools to check compression, timing, etc. and see what's up. I also got a cheapo gapper so when we pop each individual plug out, I can check it for the correct space mentioned earlier, and probably wind up buying new plugs anyway. Thanks for all the help so far everyone. I'd like to get this miss sorted out so the motor doesn't rock at idle. There's not much point building a nice shroud if the fan is going to rock sideways and smack it.

Also, on top of that I ran the car and pulled the pcv elbow thing out of the valve cover. I put my hand over it and the valve compressed, and the idle speed dropped. Let go and it went up, put hand over - compressed, vacuum, and dropped. I'm guessing it's functional?

And yes Trailbeast, you're correct. It's a pertronix kit and is just EI, not the HEI system. When it still had points, the bad idle was a lot worse - A LOT worse. After swapping it it's more of a gentle rock, but the miss is still apparent. I've also been told by a few people that the carbeurator I have just sucks at idling. Could also need to be rebuilt.
Click to expand...
Well that rules out the head gasket.

Btw, gap the plugs at .035"
 
When you pulled out the PCV did you feel for puffing out of gases at the valve cover hole? Strong "blow by" is an indicator of worn rings. It sounds like most of the oil loss is seepage from the valve cover and the spark plug tubes of your "drool head" engine. The rubber seals for the spark tubes are very cheap and available, so change those. When you remove the valve cover, make sure the surface is flat and no bulges from over-tightening the nuts. Hammer those flat. Those are common leaks. Read up on valve cover gaskets. Most like rubber, some cork, and I think some just use straight RTV "for a gasket". If you use the later, you will spend hours removing it next time you need to adjust the valves.
 
the tube seals should come with the valve cover gasket....
 
Overheating on the freeway-do you have a hood-to-radiator bulkhead seal on it? It's the one that goes on just behind the hood latch. I didn't at first; even with a big Champion radiator my slant would get hot....then I figured out that air was bypassing the radiator over the top. Now, it doesn't give me any problems even in summer. No shroud either.
 
I like how there is always information available from everyone here on this site. It really helps narrow things down.


BillGrissom said:
When you pulled out the PCV did you feel for puffing out of gases at the valve cover hole? Strong "blow by" is an indicator of worn rings. It sounds like most of the oil loss is seepage from the valve cover and the spark plug tubes of your "drool head" engine. The rubber seals for the spark tubes are very cheap and available, so change those. When you remove the valve cover, make sure the surface is flat and no bulges from over-tightening the nuts. Hammer those flat. Those are common leaks. Read up on valve cover gaskets. Most like rubber, some cork, and I think some just use straight RTV "for a gasket". If you use the later, you will spend hours removing it next time you need to adjust the valves.
Click to expand...

Nothing noticable coming out of the open hole where the pcv was removed during checking. The valve cover is definitly leaky. I now have oil on top of it, and all over the pcv hose that goes from the valve to the intake area. I am going to try and kick the vc into shape. I want to put the old one back on, and adjust everything flat. I moved the heater hoses out of the way to monitor it for now and try to figure out where oil likes to shoot out. It appears to mostly be coming out of the bolt holes under the bolt heads and washers, and the lower edge that is closest to the spark plugs, but the oil on top of the pcv hose I still dont understand. I've tried both rubber and cork. They yeilded the same result.

bad440 said:
the tube seals should come with the valve cover gasket....
Click to expand...

I've bought 3 gaskets, and none came with the seals. Parts stores I go to can't find the tube seals at all.

"Overheating on the freeway-do you have a hood-to-radiator bulkhead seal on it? "

No. There's nothing to seal the hood at all. The hood itself likes to "bounce" a little at speed, so it's pretty obvious air is picking up under it. What is a good remedy for this? Or do I just need to find the seal? was there one to begin with?
 
So, where are the "quick" questions?
 
Serj22 said:
. The hood itself likes to "bounce" a little at speed, so it's pretty obvious air is picking up under it. What is a good remedy for this? Or do I just need to find the seal? was there one to begin with?
Click to expand...

Where the hood leaks is between the radiator support and the hood. The way it works---air goes into the grille area, (allegedly) instead of being forced through the radiator, which is of course a restriction, the air goes up over between the bottom of the hood and the top of the radiator support without going through the hood.

I'm not sure either the 67 I drive, or the spare body ever had one

The photo is a B body...........

https://www.google.com/search?num=4...3674.12j21.33.0....0...1c.1.19.hp.JLbr-j4CNS8

https://www.google.com/search?num=40&newwindow=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=_5TgUaejKKOtigLL1YHwAg&q=mopar%20a%20body%20hood%20to%20support%20seal&biw=1138&bih=555&sei=K5XgUY38E-WQigLx-IDYDg#imgdii=_

mSWEYJM_Y52K02kCA9DA4Xw.jpg
 
in addition to the compression test ,do a leakdown test. your Dad will know. you probably have a pre72 head and maybe suffering a burnt valve, maybe. but its . something to check. Good luck
 
Otateral said:
Had my kids watching me while I adjusted my valves, and they couldn't stop laughing at my elbow bouncing up and down while I made the adjustments.
Click to expand...

You did not video it so we could be entertained as well?? Some friend you are..:D
 
Well I'm not going to open a new thread for this issue, but today:

I drove the car this morning for about 15 miles, parked it in the same place I always do, then went inside. I decided to go get lunch around noon, got in the car, and got a constant crank, but no start. First time its ever happened in about 8 or 9k miles to me. So, I listened, then got out, fuel filter has fuel in it, and seems ok, I think. I am going to go ahead and assume it's getting air, so I went for spark. I unplugged one wire from the dizzy, and set it on the valve cover with the sleeve rolled back. I attached a wire from the starter and then tapped the other end to the battery with the ignition set to "on". I used my other hand to grab a rubber handled screw driver and try to arc the spark plug wire. Nada. I set the wire next to an unpainted bolt and gapped it as close as possible - nada.

So I went and bridged the ballast, and then tried to start- still no power. I pulled the center wire off the dizzy, and then set that on the valve cover, took the negative wires from the pertronix off the coil, and then attached a ground wire to negative and then left the ignition on. I took the wire from the coil that normally goes to the dizzy cap and attached it to the strut tower (if its called that) bolt, and different places on the engine and then rapidly pulled it away from said object over and over. I didn't see anything. My immediate thought was that coils are $20, so I went and got one. It's 9 at night, and I just replaced it and there is still nothing. I probably did that particular test wron and the coil was fine... either way - now it's new. My only thought is it could be the pertronix electronic ignition... I still have the points, and my next thought is to go ahead and put them back. It would be stupid that the electro ign. lasted only about 2,000 miles, but it's not unheard of I guess.

Am I missing something crucial in my investigation? Also, how does one go about putting the points back in? Is it plug and play? Gapping involved? Have to use the old rotor? (still have) etc...
 
With a Pertronix, there's only so much you can check

You've replaced the coil, and even though a "new" coil can be defective, that's probably a good gamble.

Only other checks are to make absolutely sure the distributor is actually turning

That the Pertronix trigger wheel is not damaged physically

Then take a clip lead and jumper 12V direct to coil + and the Pertronix +

And, make sure the COIL wire is not bad.

I like to initially check spark with a grounded probe (clip lead and screwdriver) held "down into" so to speak the entrance to the coil tower.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top