5 quick operation and Maintenance Qs

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67Dart273 said:
That the Pertronix trigger wheel is not damaged physically

Then take a clip lead and jumper 12V direct to coil + and the Pertronix +

And, make sure the COIL wire is not bad.

I like to initially check spark with a grounded probe (clip lead and screwdriver) held "down into" so to speak the entrance to the coil tower.
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Is the trigger wheel the collar that goes around the rotor or the whole rotor assembly? Or is that not it all-together...

I thought the coil wire may be bad... I was on the phone with my dad while I was checking it and he said it would be unlikely, that it would just fail when it ran not long before just fine, but I guess it's a possibility. Is there a way I can jump it with a 12v wire for a short time, or should I just go get a wire that it's supposed to have? Or can I just use one of the other spark plug wires momentarily and it'll just missfire but run (hopefully).
 
You can use just about any wire, including "bare" at the coil so long as it's "suspended" in air far enough not to arc to ground or other components.

"For just checking" you can use about anything, including a plug wire and plug.

The reason I like to use a grounded clip lead is this means the clip lead is not gonna shock the ess ech eye tee out 'o ya
 
67Dart273 said:
You can use just about any wire, including "bare" at the coil so long as it's "suspended" in air far enough not to arc to ground or other components.

"For just checking" you can use about anything, including a plug wire and plug.

The reason I like to use a grounded clip lead is this means the clip lead is not gonna shock the ess ech eye tee out 'o ya
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All good advice. Once I am done working on Joe Dimaggio's boat today around noon, I'm popping the hood open again and getting back into this. The fun part is its all in the mess zone of the engine so I am finding clusters of oil and dirt every time I touch anything.
 
Well, I figured it out. The coil wire that goes from the coil to the top of the cap, was bad. I tried a different wire momentarily and it worked. SO I got a whole new set of wires and it's good to go. Fired right up.

My dad came over with his awesome timing set and tried to work on the carb and the timing. Turns out my timing was about 20 degrees advanced almost :( so we quickly set that down to about 7 degrees advanced, which seemed reasonable.

He tried to get my idle down to 500ish, but it wasn't happening. There's got to be a vacuum leak somewhere... the idle set screw had no effect on bringing the motor back into play when it started to stall out, and all that made any difference was the air adjustment screw. So I have to chase down that leak to help get her running better. Right now she sits at 700rpm in park, and in gear at a stop, idles at 525ish. It was set lower but it stalled every time you stopped at a light. Couldn't have that so I brought it back to 680-700 for now.
 
Actually, if the distributor has been recurved, you might WANT way more than 7*. My little 318, stock pistons and heads, with a mild little cam "about like" a 340 factory cam, runs 15-17* initial.

Of course, again, it has a recurved distributor so that it doesn't over-advance at the top end.
 
67Dart273 said:
Actually, if the distributor has been recurved, you might WANT way more than 7*. My little 318, stock pistons and heads, with a mild little cam "about like" a 340 factory cam, runs 15-17* initial.

Of course, again, it has a recurved distributor so that it doesn't over-advance at the top end.
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What would indicate it has been recurved? I doubt anything's been altered about the distributor before I put the electronic ignition swap in it. The motor is stock as far as I can tell, except the head has pretty obviously been swapped. Or the motors came in two different colors at once - because the head is like a royal blue and the block is red.
 
In general, the more spark advance you can run without pinging (pre-ignition), the better for power, mileage, and lower emissions. You get pinging first at wide-open-throttle, low rpm, like going up a steep hill, when the engine is hotter, and with lower octane gas.
 
BillGrissom said:
In general, the more spark advance you can run without pinging (pre-ignition), the better for power, mileage, and lower emissions. You get pinging first at wide-open-throttle, low rpm, like going up a steep hill, when the engine is hotter, and with lower octane gas.
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So the 18 was reasonable? How do I tell if there is pre-ignition going on? I thought there was an issue with it being that advanced because I thought the vacuum plates would push it further off. Edit: I see. I did some reading on sl6.org. My only problem is how do I figure out what the timing is at while it's running? Just rev her up to 3k rpm?
 
Serj22 said:
So the 18 was reasonable? How do I tell if there is pre-ignition going on? I thought there was an issue with it being that advanced because I thought the vacuum plates would push it further off. Edit: I see. I did some reading on sl6.org. My only problem is how do I figure out what the timing is at while it's running? Just rev her up to 3k rpm?
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Pinging sounds like someone is underneath the hood, taping the engine with a hammer. There was an ad for a fuel company in the 80's with someone driving uphill pinging, as others frowned at them while passing. Slight pinging actually improves combustion, but you wouldn't hear that level in the cabin, so bad if you hear it. At least that was the story when I worked in that field a bit in 1980, though they still argued what pinging really was then.

If ambitious, take a knock sensor and module from a GM TBI engine (85-95 trucks), like I did for all 3 Mopars. The knock sensor screws into your block drain, using a 3/8 to 1/4" NPT bushing (recall) for a slant, or direct for a SB or BB. 1-wire runs to the module and 1 wire from the module has a 5 V signal to indicate knock. You could wire that to an LED on your dash. If you later get an ECU like Holley Commander 950, it can adjust spark timing based on that knock signal.
 
Well the timing was all set correctly and was advancing close to 30 degrees under vacuum. The other day I lost all power and the motor was running like junk and dumping unburnt fuel out the pipe. I drove it home at about 40 mph flooring it. Cylinder 3 and 5 I removed the plug wires and the motor did not change (if cylinder 1 is the closest to the grill) . All the others dropped the speed (as they should). my dad came over and did a compression test on them. I got this:

1: 130 Grill
2: 140
3: 70
4: 130
5: 25
6: 130 Firewall

His, mine, and a good mechanic friend suggest the valves are obviously burnt, or the seats are gone. I believe i bought it with the issue on cylinder 3, which is why it never idled. Either way, I'd like the quickest way to get her up and running again. (cheapest would be great too.) I would like to find a head with the valves and all mounted ready to be popped onto the motor, resurfaced or whatever and then pull the old head off and swap it on, or would a shop of some kind have some kind of ready to go head with a core swap? I have minimal (ok none) experience with this kind of issue. Never experienced a bad valve yet. Or perhaps someone has a nice rebuilt slant for sale. I'd take that too. I drive her to work everyday.

I feel like an idiot cause everyone suggested to check the comp, and now that I was able to, it's broken, and it was obviously bad to begin with.
 
This is a long post, so I'll break it up with pictures.

Well I wound up taking the head off and there was a busted pushrod on cylinder 3 and the lifter was popped out of its hole and sitting up on the little ledge there. I took the head to a local machine shop owned by a friend of the family, and he took the head, took it apart and said the seat was gone on the exhaust side of cylinder 5, and the whole thing looked like *** and needed to be redone. He cleaned the rocker arm assembly up and replaced all the studs for the intake/exhaust and painted the head black and didn't charge any more (all I asked for was a valve job and resurface).


He gave it back to me 2 days later, and had a set of brand new lifters and push rods ready to go for $275 cash. I thought it was a decent deal. I put the head back on after buying all the top end gasket set. I got everything back together in an hour and the valves adjusted to .010 and .020 respectively.



Then I rebuilt the carb. That cost $40 and there was really not much to it. I've never done one before and was surprised at how few parts there were in this one. The only thing I had difficulty with was remembering which notch the fuel pump hook sat on, since there were 3 choices.


The car idles beautifully now, and I am averaging about 18-19MPG.



The problem with overheating (well, running too hot) is still there, which probably fried the valves originally. I pulled the water pump and it looked like it was recovered from the wreck of the Titanic. I felt fish could be living in the barnacle junk on it and it was incredibly difficult to turn. I got a brand new pump for $24 and put it all back together again. The car still got hot. I drained the entire cooling system again, and jammed a hose down the radiator and ran it at full blast with the bottom hose detached for about 20 minutes and let it sit and went to work. I refilled the car with water and some cleaning junk for radiators I bought at the auto store. It does not get to the ppoint where it no longer cools down any more. I can let off the gas, or idle, and the temp will drop. Before it heated up and did not go down (after the new head was on).



I'm guessing at this point I just need a new radiator. It does not overheat anymore, but still running too hot for my comfort. I tried 1-800radiator and they wanted close to $400 for a radiator for the car. I do not care if it's original and would prefer whatever works best as a daily driver, so if anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears. I looked at some of the american radiators stuff, and a lot seems like it will fit, and has the built in tranny cooler, but I'm trying to keep cost down. I don't mind if it's aluminum or chrome plated, as long as its functional.

 
Since you don't care about original, many radiators will work. Look for one with a 1.5"D bottom hose on the passenger side. 71+ small-block Mopar radiators have a 1.75"D lower hose which would be harder to fit. Most all radiators have a 1.5"D upper hose like yours. Since you don't have an AC compressor, anything from center to driver's side would work. I bought an Autozone radiator for a 72 Dart, or whatever was the oldest they had in the book. It fits my 65 small block, but appears it was for a slant since a 1.5"D lower tube (passenger side). Cost $200. My 64 Valiant slant has a non-Mopar radiator from who knows what, but it works.

Before that though, try flushing your radiator better. Take it out and turn it upside down. Flow water from the bottom tube to the top. That is a "reverse flush". Your flush just pushed the junk deeper in. I connect a garden hose w/ plastic pipe fittings, to build up pressure by holding my hand over the top tube then releasing to get a gush of water. A guy here posted great tips on using a citric solution to dissolve crud, with great photos, so search for that.
 
67Dart273 said:
I just priced a replacement through O'Reallys and it was nowhere near that much

I wasn't sure what model your car is so I used '68

190 bucks:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/s...ap?model=Dart&vi=1087736&year=1968&make=Dodge

Also check out Champion radiator
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Mine is a '68 slant. I called Oreillys and they told me it was $275 or something like that. But you're right, online says different.

As for the other post, can a reverse flush actually fix the clog? I mean, I can only drive about 20 minutes on the freeway before the radiator doesn't catch up with the cool down. All other cooling components are replaced. The heater core is the only thing that saves it on long drives. If a reverse flush is effective, I'll unbolt it and flip her upside down, and I got a place to do that kind of thing. I used a solution from the auto store that looked to be citric based and was $3.00. The first flush brought my operating time from 2 minutes, back to 20. The needle used to just shoot all the way up instantly when I fixed the head, and I did check all the water pathways and cleared them when I did it.
 
Certainly worth a try. You "didn't hear this from me," but what is commonly used to clean heat exchangers is hydrochloric acid (muratic). If you go down this road, do some research and be damn careful
 
67Dart273 said:
Certainly worth a try. You "didn't hear this from me," but what is commonly used to clean heat exchangers is hydrochloric acid (muratic). If you go down this road, do some research and be damn careful
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Hell yeah, that works! I did my Mazdas and it came out as gold as an anodized valve cover inside. Get some rubber gloves! Turn it on its face so the hose bungs face up. Fill with pool acid and let sit for 10 minutes. Dump into bucket or somewhere where it wont etch the concrete. Mine tuned out to have a leak in it (it actually split a tube) that the acid exposed as it ate through the stop leak, so bummer. I bought a new one at Oreilly for 110. But for yours, I would try it for sure. BUT before you do that, get it up to operating temp and feel the radiator for cold spots. You could have many tubes blocked or corroded or pinched off (poor mans field expedient leak repair) If its cold spot riddled, clean it. If its still not working, look for a radiator out of a Mustang. I got an aftermarket AL radiator for a Mustang for CHEAP and it fit like a glove with 2 more holes drilled in the bracket. The lower hose was not correct but I had to use a different hose anyway.
 
pishta said:
Hell yeah, that works! I did my Mazdas and it came out as gold as an anodized valve cover inside. Get some rubber gloves! Turn it on its face so the hose bungs face up. Fill with pool acid and let sit for 10 minutes. Dump into bucket or somewhere where it wont etch the concrete. Mine tuned out to have a leak in it (it actually split a tube) that the acid exposed as it ate through the stop leak, so bummer. I bought a new one at Oreilly for 110. But for yours, I would try it for sure. BUT before you do that, get it up to operating temp and feel the radiator for cold spots. You could have many tubes blocked or corroded or pinched off (poor mans field expedient leak repair) If its cold spot riddled, clean it. If its still not working, look for a radiator out of a Mustang. I got an aftermarket AL radiator for a Mustang for CHEAP and it fit like a glove with 2 more holes drilled in the bracket. The lower hose was not correct but I had to use a different hose anyway.
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I heated it up and felt the side facing the fan. None of it seemed very different in temperature. It all felt the same to me. Where does one get this chemical, or rather what "exactly" do I want to get. I have a place to do stuff like that over a bunch of gravel, so it wont hit concrete. Which year mustang fit in place? I don't care if I have to drill out mounting holes.

And olmanmopar, thank you. I had a thread up a while ago in /6 discussions where I showed everyone as I painted it all.
 
I have not kept up on the availability, but basically it's hydrochloric or muratic acid. Since you are in a large city, you might look around for industrial chemical suppliers or HVAC parts suppliers. Some of those are wholesale, and there may be licensing or EPA restrictions.

You also might try an industrial refrigeration service outfit, maybe they can provide you with a small amount. We used to buy it in gallons, and I'm not sure how you'd get less

I just got back from RSD (Refrigeration Supplies Distributor) and could find no such thing, so I donoooo

Here's a page (or three) on "how"

http://constructionmanuals.tpub.com/14279/css/14279_252.htm

http://constructionmanuals.tpub.com/14279/css/14279_253.htm

http://constructionmanuals.tpub.com/14279/css/14279_254.htm

Here's one product I found

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parker.com%2Fliterature%2FAftermarket%2520AC%2520and%2520Refrigeration%2520Division%2FCatalogs%2FPDF%2520fies%2FWL1%2520and%2520AF1%2520Virginia%2520Form%2520%2520P-378%2520Product%2520Bulletin.pdf&ei=5FUhUtnsIcWIiwKE44C4DA&usg=AFQjCNFD0hwtybhZ7OLBTxl0TrYF1MZVeA&sig2=gJQK5F7JsHnUj9YNIguyxw

and I believe this is the very stuff we used

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/storefront/product-view.ep?pID=B85-997
 
Serj22 said:
Where does one get this chemical, or rather what "exactly" do I want to get.
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pishta answered that - "pool acid". Go to any pool supply store, or even Ace Hardware, and ask for "muriatic acid". It is a mild mixture of HCl acid and water. Most radiator cleaners, like Prestone Super Flush use citric acid. One guy posted here on using an industrial version, with photos showing excellent results. If the chemical flush causes pinhole leaks, that is probably good since they were already there and hidden. Once clean, you can usually repair them w/ solder, if copper tubes.
 
Serj22 said:
I like how there is always information available from everyone here on this site. It really helps narrow things down.

I've bought 3 gaskets, and none came with the seals. Parts stores I go to can't find the tube seals at all.
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Try here. or napa (if napa #B45384 check to see if it's each or 6 of them)
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Victor-B45384-Spark-Plug-Tube/dp/B007ZJJC8K"]Victor B45384 Spark Plug Tube Seal : Amazon.com : Automotive[/ame]
 
66Dvert said:
Try here. or napa (if napa #B45384 check to see if it's each or 6 of them)
Victor B45384 Spark Plug Tube Seal : Amazon.com : Automotive
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oh you beat me to it...like 3 bucks!
1238071_10200987467783550_1954483358_n.jpg


oh yeah, spark plugs DONT need the washers on them from 63-74, the tube acts as the washer. prior to that early models needed washers. Peanut heads dont obviously as they are tapered plug, 10 ft lbs only.
 
Napa here for some reason couldn't even find them either, but they did have the pushrods I needed when I reassembled the head back onto the block. Bert Williams came up with the gaskets for the plugs and I popped them in. The way the gaskets fit on doesn't lead me to believe they actually seal anything, but I guess they work. No drooling oil yet after about 100 miles.
 
So, I installed the Oreally's radiator, which did cost $179. They had one that said "ULTRACOOL" which was $189 and I told them I wanted that one - they couldn't get it. The whole rad seemed fine, but the lower hose outlet was shot straight out towards the rear of the car, rather than angled upwards. I had to get a different hose - not sure what it's off of, but it worked fine. I just picked one at the parts store that did the curving I wanted. Also the transmission cooler lines were shifted towards the passenger side. A little bending had them in the correct spots, still away from the engine and fan. I installed a 180* thermostat while I was at it.

The car still seemed to heat up even though all cooling options had been replaced. I ditched the factory gauge, as it had no information. I left the wire and circuit in place should I ever "need" it again. I got an electric Sunpro gauge with a new sender unit, and a new wire.

When I run the car around town, idle around, low speed - the car sits at 180* all the time. When I hit about 60 on the freeway, it goes up to 210* and stays there. When I stay on the freeway for longer than 15 minutes, it starts rising towards 220-230*. There is also a 16lb cap on the radiator, and it is vented, with a overflow catch. The air system is a 16" fan with no clutch and no shroud (as of now). Without the shroud I'd think it should cool down on the freeway - not heat up.

I also richened up the carb slightly - it seems to have made no difference.

Am I missing something?

Also, I realize this has become the 5 longest questions ever. But why open up a bunch of thread space for one car, with issues that seem to stem all from a heat problem...
 
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