dieselman966
Well-Known Member
It was still bogging down even when shifting it manually at higher rpm. It's pretty good now but still a little hesitation when you stop it. Maybe a half second instead of just falling on it face for 2 seconds
600 edelbrock secondary bog.
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dieselman966
Well-Known Member
What do you mean by to late? Not enough timing at higher rpm?
dieselman966
Well-Known Member
Initial timing is set at *14 or *15. Mechanical is at *34. It's been set since I got it running.
rabbit929
Member
Sorry for the ancient bump, but was this ever truly resolved for the eddy??
I’ve got an 1806, AND a brand new 1906. Basically identical carbs, 1906 is the avs2 series, 650cfm electric choke.
the stall exists in the garage, in neutral, on the highway, so I feel fearing and granny is irrelevant. (Mines a 4spd).
main reason I had to chime in, is a solution to this doesn’t exist on the internet, after two years of searching and another eddy later.
Second reason is I’m sure few here understand how ported vs manifold vacuum works. It won’t matter which port you use at WOT, as you lose all vacuum-based advance at this position.
Porter vs manifold only matters at idle, and if your running emissions systems. No emissions systems? Run manifold. It will run cooler at a leaner mix at idle. (Lean mix at idle is good, lean mix when pulling is bad.)
Once your throttle plate opens both behave identically. So you vacuum advance plays no part in why your carb won’t run right, it just allows for better combustion during low loads as a leaner mix takes longer to burn. Emissions systems require ported vacuum to increase exhaust gas temps to make cat converters work faster, and aid in an “after burn effect.”
Long story short, every car without emissions system will benefit (specially stroked engines as they will run cooler at idle) but I digress,
What the hell do I do with these two junk eddy carbs and what do I say to my friends that I told I didn’t need a holly??
I’ve got an 1806, AND a brand new 1906. Basically identical carbs, 1906 is the avs2 series, 650cfm electric choke.
the stall exists in the garage, in neutral, on the highway, so I feel fearing and granny is irrelevant. (Mines a 4spd).
main reason I had to chime in, is a solution to this doesn’t exist on the internet, after two years of searching and another eddy later.
Second reason is I’m sure few here understand how ported vs manifold vacuum works. It won’t matter which port you use at WOT, as you lose all vacuum-based advance at this position.
Porter vs manifold only matters at idle, and if your running emissions systems. No emissions systems? Run manifold. It will run cooler at a leaner mix at idle. (Lean mix at idle is good, lean mix when pulling is bad.)
Once your throttle plate opens both behave identically. So you vacuum advance plays no part in why your carb won’t run right, it just allows for better combustion during low loads as a leaner mix takes longer to burn. Emissions systems require ported vacuum to increase exhaust gas temps to make cat converters work faster, and aid in an “after burn effect.”
Long story short, every car without emissions system will benefit (specially stroked engines as they will run cooler at idle) but I digress,
What the hell do I do with these two junk eddy carbs and what do I say to my friends that I told I didn’t need a holly??
rustycowll69
Well-Known Member
I wonder if there is room to temporarily attach one of those small "button" magnets to the air door counterweights to see if that slows down the sec. air door opening rate, and lessens or eliminates the hesitation. Make sure there is no binding at all, you don't need a runaway secondary!
I saw a pic of an afb, but you mentioned an avs. So what I just said applies only to afb style eddy.
The bog on the AVS II should be able to be tuned out with a twist of a screw driver. Tightening the air door to the point where it won’t open to allow a bog.
The AFB has a the counterweighted air door that needs to have more weight out on it and since no one is willing to try more weight, and where do you start?????
The bog remains.
Perhaps, just perhaps, if you didn’t slam the throttle down so hard but just gave it a medium rapid depressing, it won’t act like chit. This allows the secondary air door to open slowly without bogging. Slamming the go pedal rips the secondary door open and the pump **** can not cover it. The pump **** has only so much fuel delivered so fast for so long.
What to do with the AFB & AVS II?
Sell the carbs you have, roll the money over into a new Holley and stand up in front of your friends and say,
“I need a Holley because I can’t tune the Edelbrock and I hate the short comings of it.”
And be done with it and move on.
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rabbit929
Member
mine comes in even when rolling onto it, between 3/4 throttle and wot.
Tighten the spring beyond recommended (4turns) to the point it doesn’t open hasn’t solved it, believe me, I don’t want to replace it. I’d like it to run right.
My primary circuit is tuned perfect but it only runs decent if I disconnect the secondaries all together and just run it as a 2 barrel.
Johnny Dart
Well-Known Member
If you can't tune an Edelbrock, good luck with your Holley.
You are going to be futzing with that thing more than a British motorcycle.
In regards to your Ede carbs. Put them for sale in the for sale section. I'm sure you will have many takers. In fact, how much do you want for them ?
I'm sure if they suck so bad, they should be going pretty cheap, right ?
You are going to be futzing with that thing more than a British motorcycle.
In regards to your Ede carbs. Put them for sale in the for sale section. I'm sure you will have many takers. In fact, how much do you want for them ?
I'm sure if they suck so bad, they should be going pretty cheap, right ?
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rabbit929
Member
$400 for a brand new lemon doesn’t sound cheap. Have no idea why y’all being so anal I figured you might have answers. I’ve got new heads, new cam, timing set distrib, wires plugs coil the works trying to work out this issue.
Johnny Dart
Well-Known Member
Not sure what you mean by anal, but your post is kind of confusing. You start out by kind of asking for help, then lead into a tutorial on how manifold vacuum works. Adding, " I'm sure few here no how ported vs manifold vacuum works". Not a good way to get help. It seemed more like you know how this is done, and I have done it all, and now all I have now is junk carbs. I didn't even realize you were asking for help.
Having said that, most of the Ede carbs I have played with, bolt on without any issues, and are generally easy to tune. Most the time I turn the a/f screw out about 1 1/2 turns and burn rubber down the street.I start out with a box stock carb & settings so i know what I'm starting with. I also always use the "Ported" vacuum side, or go with no vacuum advance, and plug the 2 ports. This is actually, the best way to start. Take vacuum advance out of the equation.
Anyways, give us a little more info on where you are at, and what you have tried with these carbs. A little more information, would help us help you. Many time there may be an issue with something else. A lot of times we blame the carb, and it is the ignition, and vice versa. I would make sure the carb is box stock to (springs,rods,jets,etc) and make sure the floats are adjusted as well, plug both vacuum ports. Then give it another shot. Another thing I forgot to mention, make sure there is no vacuum leaks.
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rabbit929
Member
Johnny Dart
Well-Known Member
Seems kind of odd that you would get 2 bad carbs, especially the fact that one is new. There are many members on here who have the new AVS2, and are very happy with them. I run the 650 Thunder series carb, and love that thing. I've run the 600 Ede, and love that carb to. This might lead me to look for other issues. Are you sure you have the correct gasket for the thermoquad intake ? And that there are no vacuum leaks at the base of the carb or intake ? This would definitely cause it to run poopy. Have you ever checked the float setting on the carb/carbs ? And I'm not so sure why you would change jets/ springs or anything on the car until you got the car running properly. Ede's are generally set pretty well from the factory. I would go back to all the stock parts/settings on the carb, until you get it tuned properly. With the occasional miss, it could very well be a vacuum leak somewhere.
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Sounds like it’s working correctly then.
Even if the Air door doesn’t open, the secondary butterflies are mechanical and open up allowing air in and down the carb. Which of cause, means it’s running lean.
Ops, should have included this in the above quote , my bad....
Between distributor and ignition tuning, the only other carb part to tune/change are the primary squirters with the mandatory pump arm readjustment.
rabbit929
Member
Pump arm tried in every hole, no change.
You think rich ring up the 2ndaries might be a better direction? And I am back to stock primaries, just with a silver spring, as it leans out and stumbles without it during slight acceleration. flota are spot on, 1” drop, 7/16 up.
im aware both carbs shouldn’t have the same problem, but there’s gotta be something I’m missing.
For those who don’t know, the avs series has vacuum secondaries, no weights. So I can easily adjust it by the air door, but seeing as it does much better with the secondaries locked out, how do I get more fuel there?? Even with the biggest jets it never made a difference.
My fuel pres is at 5.5, filters new. At this point I don’t want to get rid of the carb because I’ve got the owners manual memorized. But all it suggests is a “lean condition ‘probably’ exists, and to richen the mix.” After two years, about 200 test miles, I’m ready to drop it off at a shop and see if they will send a bill. But even the engine shop in town, claims they don’t know much about eddys and they will do it if I buy a holly. I’d like to make the eddy run.
So pardon my frustration. It’s been a headache of a year.
You’ve tried every hole but have you tried other squirters & adjust the pump arm?
A stock replacement distributor? What are the timing events? Set at what again for initial?
What is a “Stage 1 lean?”
9:1?!?! That’s not rich, that’s ridiculous pig rich, and you said what about adding more fuel?
Im not sure I can help half a country away. Hands on I might.
What size engine? Compression ratio? Any hotrod mods? Cam? Headers? Head work? Stock engine?
See if this thread helps —> Thermoquad on 340 (plug photos)
They also have mechanical secondaries with a spring loaded air door above it.
I just noticed you replied within some quote tags.
A stock replacement distributor? What are the timing events? Set at what again for initial?
What is a “Stage 1 lean?”
9:1?!?! That’s not rich, that’s ridiculous pig rich, and you said what about adding more fuel?
Im not sure I can help half a country away. Hands on I might.
What size engine? Compression ratio? Any hotrod mods? Cam? Headers? Head work? Stock engine?
See if this thread helps —> Thermoquad on 340 (plug photos)
rabbit929
Member
You’ve tried every hole but have you tried other squirters & adjust the pump arm?
They also have mechanical secondaries with a spring loaded air door above it.
I just noticed you replied within some quote tags.
A stock replacement distributor? What are the timing events? Set at what again for initial?
What is a “Stage 1 lean?”
9:1?!?! That’s not rich, that’s ridiculous pig rich, and you said what about adding more fuel?
Im not sure I can help half a country away. Hands on I might.
What size engine? Compression ratio? Any hotrod mods? Cam? Headers? Head work? Stock engine?
See if this thread helps —> Thermoquad on 340 (plug photos)
stock bottom end, very mild cam, headers, eddy aluminum heads, low low compression ratio. I can advance the crap out of it and it don’t ping with the aluminum heads. 17 degrees at idle, 38 all in seems to be where it wants to be. All in at 3000.
as for the mechanical 2ndaries and vacuum air door, your right. I’m inexperienced with carbs but trying to learn. The vac can adds 20 degrees, runs the same with or without.
So it’s a 360la 4spd stock rear end for an 82 ram, but the driveline is moot point as I can actively recreate the problem at any given rpm while parked.
My dads the one who pointed out that it got significantly better after locking out the secondaries, is there anything else I can do with those other than jets and the air door?
And yes 9 is stupid rich, and even going 3 stages leaner on the secondaries (stages as in Edelbrocks chart for the 1906) the richness remains the same. This doesn’t seem to affect the hyper rich condition at all. Is this a sign of something?
rabbit929
Member
Sorry and yes, I have a set of squirted nozzles, currently running the big ones. Still no significantly noticeable reaction.You’ve tried every hole but have you tried other squirters & adjust the pump arm?
They also have mechanical secondaries with a spring loaded air door above it.
I just noticed you replied within some quote tags.
A stock replacement distributor? What are the timing events? Set at what again for initial?
What is a “Stage 1 lean?”
9:1?!?! That’s not rich, that’s ridiculous pig rich, and you said what about adding more fuel?
Im not sure I can help half a country away. Hands on I might.
What size engine? Compression ratio? Any hotrod mods? Cam? Headers? Head work? Stock engine?
See if this thread helps —> Thermoquad on 340 (plug photos)
17*’s with the vacuum line I hooked and plugged. That’s reasonable. 38*’s is a lot. All in @ 3K? Might be a bit much... Depends on the cam specs.
The drive line is not a moot point by any means.
Rear gear ratio and tire size? This works in conjunction with the vehicles weight and cam used. A heavier vehicle with tall tires and a Hwy. gear ratio will allow the engine to move air only so fast as the opposed light car and 4.30 gears on a 26 inch tire.
Again, what is a stage leaner?
Edit; Oh, What the Edelbrock book says... I’ll have to reacquaint myself with how that book works.
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You swapped in bigger squirters? Adjusted the pump rod?
Did you try smaller squirters?
rabbit929
Member
1 stage leaner is 6% less that stock calibration according to the Edelbrock 1906 calib chart. I’ve jetted this carb up and down but at wot nothing seems to change. Runs rich. No matter what I put in it.
I’ll attach the cam card and the Edelbrock tuning specs I’ve been running off of. I went back to stock on the primaries again, for the time being.
rabbit929
Member
My biggest thing is for the guys who say “learn how to drive it right and not stomp on it” it would be nice to come off the line in the mud drags and not fall on my face. It’s not a mud racer by all means, but would be fun to try out once in awhile for fun. I know this carb is capable of it, just after all this time I don’t know what else to try.
rustycowll69
Well-Known Member
I still am suspicious of the initial info. I believe I read that you said the engine had 22in vacuum. That seems unusually high to me. At what idle rpm was that vacuum achieved?
rabbit929
Member
750-800rpm but I could pull it in the garage to get some better numbers. Know my average idle vacuum went up slightly with this cam, which is odd. I was pulling 19hg before. If I would have known I would have went with something more lopey and aggressive.
I set my timing at wot, which put my initial at 17. I’ve tried everything from 34-45 at full mechanical advance, no pinging which I believe is due to the stock bottoms end and eddy heads, which drop your compression ratio by about 1 point due to heat dispersion, which drops me out of the ping threshold. I know I would benefit greatly from a better bottom end, but at the time I bought the heads, I didn’t know I’m new. everything I know at this point I learned by trying to figure out this carb, hence the vacuum speech, as I thought that was a possible culprit. Learned a lot, just apparently not what I need to know yet. Once I can figure this out, I believe I could make this run amazing on anything. But there’s something somewhere I’m missing.
I’ll get precise numbers for you this weekend when I get it back in the garage again.
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