67 dart stroker hellcat gen3 hemi with twin turbos...

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Grab a roll of aluminum foil, like Reynolds, and start wrapping wires in the harness individually and see if the problem goes away.

Just went through an RFI issue on my cousins Belvedere with RPM signal and Innovate data recorder. Eventually found where the cross-talk was happening, then insulated the problematic wires and all is good.
 
turbofreek said:
it logs it so i assume ecu still has power. the dash doesnt turn off either and just reads stall or sync error.
yes the spark plug wires are near and so is the coils and its wiring is agains crank wiring till it passes below the cylinder head. then i have them split apart to try avoiding rfi noise. which i now am certsin is the issue as do a few really reputable tuners do as well. or the cam is a tooth off. but v6 220 software says its noise. now i just got to be able to locate and eliminate it. if i only had an oscolimeter on hand and knew how to use it. lol

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For ***** and giggles, wrap your cam and crank signal wires with aluminum foil. See if that makes the signal cleaner
 
cam and crank are ALREADY wrapped, ive tried it....didint work. im looking for noise filters for both crank and coil wiring harness. simple magnet is all they are but should provide details if it is an issue or not. also trykng to get an osolation scope to locate any noise.
 
Don't burn it down yet, I haven't even gotten a chance to see it. I know it's frustrating but hang in there. I'm rooting for ya!
 
turbofreek said:
cam and crank are ALREADY wrapped, ive tried it....didint work. im looking for noise filters for both crank and coil wiring harness. simple magnet is all they are but should provide details if it is an issue or not. also trykng to get an osolation scope to locate any noise.
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Since that didn’t work, my next move would be to run a temporary wire for the crank and cam signals away from the harnes. If your ecu is in the car run the wire over the fender through the door. This takes the signals completely away from any noise created by switching outputs from the ecu.
 
TT5.9mag said:
For cam and crank signals I used mil spec shielded 3 conductor with a drain (run to ground) from aircraft spruce. I’ve never had a signal issue.

Shielded Wire MIL-C-27500 - White - Per Foot | Aircraft Spruce
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are you saying you ground the shielding around the wiring? that is what i have been trying to fogure out if it would resolve this issue.
i moved my coil and plug wires away from the crank sensor area. it ran smoother no audible issues but still showed blips on the system logs of loss of all signals, crank, cam, rpm as well. im truly at a loss.

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turbofreek said:
are you saying you ground the shielding around the wiring? that is what i have been trying to fogure out if it would resolve this issue.
i moved my coil and plug wires away from the crank sensor area. it ran smoother no audible issues but still showed blips on the system logs of loss of all signals, crank, cam, rpm as well. im truly at a loss.

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I typically ground the shield at the controller end of the cable. Many years ago I worked in the commercial marine world installing PLCs with several transducers located all over the vessel. Obviously these long runs of cables would be prone to picking up noise. We always snipped the shield on the sensor end and brought them all to a common grounding point inside the control panel. No reason the same process can't be carried over to the automotive market.
 
subcom said:
According to the Holley forums the cam and crank sensor wiring has its ground drain back to the ECU. But if you’ve extended those wires you may need to make sure that grounding path is not broken. Good info here:
Crank & Cam Sensor Lead Shielding - Holley Performance Products Forums
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I might have mis spoke. I’m going to go back through my diagram and instructions for the aem infinity and see if they want the drain grounded at the ecu or sensor end. Let’s see if Holley and AEM agree
 
My MS3 brings its ground drain back to the common GND plane on the ECU. I disassembled the connector and case to confirm when I first got it.
 
F2E0BA23-1460-4303-97B9-C2C7DD9A2F75.png

This is what I found in the AEM instructions.
Mine are in fact grounded at the ecu side of the harness back to a dedicated battery ground pin in the ECU. I’ll edit my post above.
 
TT5.9mag said:
View attachment 1716039826
This is what I found in the AEM instructions.
Mine are in fact grounded at the ecu side of the harness back to a dedicated battery ground pin in the ECU. I’ll edit my post above.
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the sensor is ecu grounded and shielded. however i have spark plug wires in the general area but a solid 10+ inches away. ive got some plug wire shielding in my tool box. im gonna install after painting its bright *** yellow black with rubber coating. i pulled them further away and it runs smoother. so i know its at least an issues. however the power wires to the coils run parallel to the crank down the back of the block for about 2 feet. gonna try and sepwrate those as well. see if i get somewhere with that. i wonder as well id coil drivers can cause this as well. as they are at the hub of the ecu harness.
 
turbofreek said:
the sensor is ecu grounded and shielded. however i have spark plug wires in the general area but a solid 10+ inches away. ive got some plug wire shielding in my tool box. im gonna install after painting its bright *** yellow black with rubber coating. i pulled them further away and it runs smoother. so i know its at least an issues. however the power wires to the coils run parallel to the crank down the back of the block for about 2 feet. gonna try and sepwrate those as well. see if i get somewhere with that. i wonder as well id coil drivers can cause this as well. as they are at the hub of the ecu harness.
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The sensor itself (if it’s VR) will have a + and - and those need to run to the correct pins on the ecu. What we’re saying is you need to ground the shield back to the ecu as well on a dedicated battery ground pin. You can also chassis ground the shield if you’re confident the chassis, engine, and batt neg are extremely well grounded. ANY large amperage draw in ANY circuit can cause interference. It’s best to route the cam/crank signals as far from anything else as possible.
 
Are your coils grounded to the cylinder heads through a dedicated ground to each head like Holley has in their diagrams and what is grounding the block? I have a 2/0 ground cable from the block to a bolt on the front frame. Another 2/0 cable runs from the battery to that same bolt. I also have a motorplate but you can’t rely on those as a good ground.
Since that’s a factory Holley harness, it should have the shielding grounded at the ecu and if it was a wiring issue it would’ve gone away when you swapped harnesses.
 
turbofreek said:
the sensor is ecu grounded and shielded. however i have spark plug wires in the general area but a solid 10+ inches away. ive got some plug wire shielding in my tool box. im gonna install after painting its bright *** yellow black with rubber coating. i pulled them further away and it runs smoother. so i know its at least an issues. however the power wires to the coils run parallel to the crank down the back of the block for about 2 feet. gonna try and sepwrate those as well. see if i get somewhere with that. i wonder as well id coil drivers can cause this as well. as they are at the hub of the ecu harness.
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In reference to the coil drivers being a problem. Anything that is a very fast switched input or output can cause "noise". Some examples of switched outputs from the ECU is injector output and coil outputs, regardless if its low level out put such as the signal from the ECU or the output to the coil itself. These outputs are essentially turning on and off very quickly. If you were to look at them with an oscilloscope, it would be a square wave (on/off). Examples of switched inputs are VR and hall effect sensors. Just like they can have noise introduced to them, they can also introduce noise to other sensors/inputs. Hence the reason for the shielded cable. In my experience in the industrial/marine world, the safest I/O is milli-amp (mA) I/O because regardless of outside noise, the current still flows. Voltage sensors, such as the ones we have for water, and oil coolant and pressure, are prone to voltage drop problems (probably not on cars, but they can be problematic). I'm not sure why mA output sensors haven't made it over to the automotive world.
 
Hemirunner said:
Are your coils grounded to the cylinder heads through a dedicated ground to each head like Holley has in their diagrams and what is grounding the block? I have a 2/0 ground cable from the block to a bolt on the front frame. Another 2/0 cable runs from the battery to that same bolt. I also have a motorplate but you can’t rely on those as a good ground.
Since that’s a factory Holley harness, it should have the shielding grounded at the ecu and if it was a wiring issue it would’ve gone away when you swapped harnesses.
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yea i have giant grounds from both heads. ecu has a ground to head in the harness and that is there as well on pass head. i wonder if the alt that goes to ground on battery could be an issue? i doubt it but at this point anything is possible.
 
did a system log yesturday after moving coils to the front of the car hanging over the fender. as far away as i could get them from the engine itself. changed nothing either. ive got another set of plug wires i think. might have less rfi coming out of them. ill see sometime in the next few day. this is totally rediculous. im also going to unhook my alt to zee if anything coming from it as well. i doubt it as its on the other side of the engine from the crank sensor.

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update
put an older global file into my ecu. sumbutch runs again. 3 datalogs in a row zero sync errors or stumbles while running. ran for a fee minutes rnough to get warmed up. purred like a kitten.
now just waiying on the water pump to go testing.
 
turbofreek said:
update
put an older global file into my ecu. sumbutch runs again. 3 datalogs in a row zero sync errors or stumbles while running. ran for a fee minutes rnough to get warmed up. purred like a kitten.
now just waiying on the water pump to go testing.
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I talked to a guy at Moparty that said his Holley ECU had some type of software problem, which ultimately caused him a piston. I've read about others having problems as well. I don't know enough about the Holleys t know which version had the problem. You're lucky all it cost you was some frustration and not engine failure. Glad you got it running good.
 
yea the first firmware v6 170 was total trash. rattled a fee piston oilers out but that was it. besides time and money. cost me a few grand worth of wiring harnesses, plugs, coils, head gaskets. 220 build firmware came out and my car ran like a monster...till i opened a datalog after a perfect street hit. never ran right again until now. i uploaded a fresh tune and ive had zero sync errors in about 10 minutes of logging everything. cant be happier but gotta move my coils back and see if it returns
 
turbofreek said:
yea the first firmware v6 170 was total trash. rattled a fee piston oilers out but that was it. besides time and money. cost me a few grand worth of wiring harnesses, plugs, coils, head gaskets. 220 build firmware came out and my car ran like a monster...till i opened a datalog after a perfect street hit. never ran right again until now. i uploaded a fresh tune and ive had zero sync errors in about 10 minutes of logging everything. cant be happier but gotta move my coils back and see if it returns
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If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it lol.
 
Hemirunner said:
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it lol.
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turbofreek said:
yea the first firmware v6 170 was total trash. rattled a fee piston oilers out but that was it. besides time and money. cost me a few grand worth of wiring harnesses, plugs, coils, head gaskets. 220 build firmware came out and my car ran like a monster...till i opened a datalog after a perfect street hit. never ran right again until now. i uploaded a fresh tune and ive had zero sync errors in about 10 minutes of logging everything. cant be happier but gotta move my coils back and see if it returns
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I recall when you found out about the Holley software issue. Its a great thread and enjoy seeing the progress. Like I said before don't give up, really nice car.
 
4.7Light said:
I recall when you found out about the Holley software issue. Its a great thread and enjoy seeing the progress. Like I said before don't give up, really nice car.
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yea ive had huge software glitches and issues that just never seems to end for me. the old tune i loaded im not sure how old it is but likely early v6 not the current 220 firmware. at this point i dont care. it runs with zero errors at this point. as long as it dont end up with the random miss that explodes engines like it used to tonothers kve read about. that would end my racing for a long time.
 
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