67 twin turbo dart

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Matts440 said:
That's the thing I just have what they sent to go off of. I haven't and they probably haven't either. What's your coil dwell set to? I'll have them see if changing the input capture to falling edge makes any difference
@Hemirunner not sure which cooper plugs they put in as far as heat range. Think the 3.5/1 ms is what megasquirt recommended, be interesting to see what others have their set to.
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My running coil dwell is the same as what you have. I do have a different cranking dwell, but that's irrelevant while its running.
 
Results from the compression and leak down test.

Leakdown #1 8% #2 6% #3 5% #4 5% #5 8% #6 5% #7 7% #8 11%
Compression #1=155.#2=142 #3=155 #4=150 #5=146 #6=145 #7=145 #8=147
 
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Pick the car up today. The other pics didn't come through on my end on my phone but 4 cylinders the plugs were black and the other 4 were white and had oil on the bottom. So engine will come out and looks like new rings are in store, hopefully nothing else. Plus need to get some info on a few other things like omitting the versa fueler and just direct drive the high impedance I injectors off the MS3X.
 
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That’s your plan? That thing is only running on 4 cylinders and they’re pig fat. I’d be doing a lot more diagnostics before I pulled an engine. Did you check injector wiring? Verify all 8 injectors are firing? Verify firing order and spark at all 8 coils? Cover the bases before starting over. Even if the rings are shot, (your compression and leak down numbers say they’re fine) you should be able to get a few pulls in and make decent power on the dyno without hurting anything. Get it running on all 8 before you go pulling the engine. That oil could be sucking in from anywhere if those cylinders aren’t firing. Are you’re dyno guys even remotely competent in the basics here?
 
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Hemirunner said:
That’s your plan? That thing is only running on 4 cylinders and they’re pig fat. I’d be doing a lot more diagnostics before I pulled an engine. Did you check injector wiring? Verify all 8 injectors are firing? Verify firing order and spark at all 8 coils? Cover the bases before starting over. Even if the rings are shot, (your compression and leak down numbers say they’re fine) you should be able to get a few pulls in and make decent power on the dyno without hurting anything. Get it running on all 8 before you go pulling the engine. That oil could be sucking in from anywhere if those cylinders aren’t firing. Are you’re dyno guys even remotely competent in the basics here?
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Oh I will be going over it before I do anything. Injectors are wired in firing order, coil packs are wired in firing order, I personally did those, since I had to change the wiring on the injectors to match the new LS firing order of the cam. Not sure if the versa fueler is causing the issue causing a mixed signal or what, just asking Matt at diy to see if I can run them straight. I don't want yo have to pull the motor, I'll be doing some checks, before I even started the car I tested the injectors and coils signals and felt them click when tested and they went in firing order due to the MS3 just has ABCs labeled on the wires same for the coils. Unless the coils are bad on those cylinders. I agree that the test came back looking fine numbers wise. Just the oil on the plugs worry me a bit, but agree should still make power.
 
What cylinder number plugs were white the oiling may clean up with some good loading to seat the rings it has been running a bit with no load
 
AUSA66 said:
What cylinder number plugs were white the oiling may clean up with some good loading to seat the rings it has been running a bit with no load
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Looks like 1,5,6,8 from the pictures. They could definitely seal up with some load, but those plugs look like they’re not even firing.
 
AUSA66 said:
What cylinder number plugs were white the oiling may clean up with some good loading to seat the rings it has been running a bit with no load
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1,5,6,8 were white. True, I'll go through and double check all the wiring before I do anything. I know the T I have to feed the turbos off the main line is leaking now but that's a easy fix.
 
Hemirunner said:
Looks like 1,5,6,8 from the pictures. They could definitely seal up with some load, but those plugs look like they’re not even firing.
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I have a spark tester I can out I line to see if they are, maybe the wire broke, I soldered all the connection and heat shrinked over the area. Could be a bad wire to them.
 
Matts440 said:
I have a spark tester I can out I line to see if they are, maybe the wire broke, I soldered all the connection and heat shrinked over the area. Could be a bad wire to them.
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They’re all hot and pulsed ground. Make sure they all have power and check continuity on the ground side. Get an LED injector noid, that makes it easy. Get fresh plugs too. Plugs are like any other consumable on a turbo car. You’re gonna need boxes of them for tuning and racing.
 
Hemirunner said:
They’re all hot and pulsed ground. Make sure they all have power and check continuity on the ground side. Get an LED injector noid, that makes it easy. Get fresh plugs too. Plugs are like any other consumable on a turbo car. You’re gonna need boxes of them for tuning and racing.
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Ordered one, will be here tomorrow supposedly. I do have some colder NGK plugs I can put in, I got them for the higher boost application.
 
Matts440 said:
Ordered one, will be here tomorrow supposedly. I do have some colder NGK plugs I can put in, I got them for the higher boost application.
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I order NGK plugs from Rock Auto in bulk. The colder ones will be more likely to fuel foul if the tune is fat. I run a 6 heat range on the street and 8 at the track. I just got some 5s to try this year with 87 octane.
 
Hemirunner said:
I order NGK plugs from Rock Auto in bulk. The colder ones will be more likely to fuel foul if the tune is fat. I run a 6 heat range on the street and 8 at the track. I just got some 5s to try this year with 87 octane.
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Yeah its the 8s, tune is rough but he kept the afrs 11.5. I'll get some more cooper ones to use and test
 
I run the NKG 8 in my R3 a lot less fouling it is strange with your a/f readings if it was injecting fuel without being burnt the sensor should be wet
 
Well the sensor was probably just reading off the running cylinders, and based off that, so would make sense if the others weren't firing per say and just off the other two the fuel would need to be increased causing the black plugs. Am I right in this thinking???
 
Thats right if the fuel control is doing what it should be & 4 injectors are not squirting fuel it would sense lean & add fuel if they are squirting & no spark meaning the fuel is not being burnt then it should sense rich & lean out to compensate probably not enough run time to burn the fouled plugs clean i have seen compression drop up to 30 psi on a wet cylinder wall recovered when running properly check your oil to see if it smells of petrol
 
AUSA66 said:
Thats right if the fuel control is doing what it should be & 4 injectors are not squirting fuel it would sense lean & add fuel if they are squirting & no spark meaning the fuel is not being burnt then it should sense rich & lean out to compensate probably not enough run time to burn the fouled plugs clean i have seen compression drop up to 30 psi on a wet cylinder wall recovered when running properly check your oil to see if it smells of petrol
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It did and the shop changed it out
 
Why not use the diagnostics in the ms3 and test the coils? You can fire each one individually with a plug in the plug wire. Easy test.

 
Update: did some checks today, waiting for the noids to check signals, but wiring wise both coil and injectors are wired in the correct LS firing order to match the can and in the megasquirt.

Got the noid light kit in, injectors all check it getting a good strong signal, but found the issue I'm pretty sure, only #3&4 coils are producing a strong spark, 1,8,2,6,5 were weak and 7 didn't produce any spark which does make since since that plug was black or it was just build up. But with just sending the signal with no spark plug or wire could hear then all click but once we hooked up the wire and a plug saw the spark or lack of spark. So looks like new coils are in order. Thinking MSD ones, or does anyone have another type to replace the D585 coils I have on now?
 
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That definitely sounds like the root cause. I’m using those EBay D585 coils, the red ones you see everywhere, cause I can be a cheap bastard…but they’ve been flawless for a while now.
 
Anyone use Pertonix flamethrower products?? Any good they also offer a d585 coil. MSD is close to $500 for the set of 8
 
Cant you swap the 2 hot coils for the weak coils to see if it is the coil or the driving electronics
 
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