$7000 paint job

[barbee6043]

Ummm..... why does it have to be a young guy?? and what age qualifies for young? Are you referring to RustyRatRod (Rob) that said "about 7 grand" to build a 400 hp 360 right?? Or the 60 year old that puts 7 grand in his small block stock eliminator? It's just some don't want their paint to look like they went to Kmart and wrapped up 27.99 in 12 rattle cans of Krylon... LOL
P.S. my last paint job was about 700 bucks by a friend that worked for a bodyshop. Just sayin, some people are willing to pay for a top quality, some don't, their choice, their money

started this thread so maybe some people, young or old, could maybe get some ideas, a little encouragement, as to how they might get their mopar ride looking body/paint wise acceptable to them. if Joe wants to spend $70, $7000 or $70,000 on their paint, like ya say its their business.
how to build a well thought out, good running, durable engine for LESS? I will definitely leave that topic to someone else.

 

[GeorgeH]

I do not know how to update my profile, maybe I cannot cause I am not a paying member?

I am in Brandon Florida.

My shop is in Plant City Florida, both outside of Tampa area.

My plan is to initially buy wrecked vehicles, I like the vehicles that have been totaled by the insurance companies cause they can be purchased relatively cheap, re-built and put back on the road. Majority of these vehicles had no justification to go away other than the fact that the insurer made more money and no liability getting rid of it thru salvage.

The last statement is not entirely true,Ins co.'s are getting away from straightening, and sectioning frame rails, anything other than a slight tweak gets replaced, engine out blah,blah$$$$ This is why. A folded up rail is just that, it's done it's job as they are designed to collapse. Fishplating and or sleeving the rail you have taken away the ability of absorbing the collision impact.The cabin collapses instead. If it's still slightly crumpled it collapses to fast. You have altered air bag timing. The rebuilder can straighten it , mud it, paint it,cover the damage up, throw some used(no warranty and some states do not allow this) air bags in it and call it a day. The new ins. game with these salvage cars , you bid on salvage, pay, the ins mails title (paperwork takes a few days), and it's marked "parts only" Do your research , I'm seeing this more and more. Cars and bikes. Alot of cars by time you write up sensors ,bags, dash panel, seat belt pre-tensionors, clock springs they're close to total already. And yes it's all about liability, and they look at the repair time and rental car bills. No defending ins. co., but dealing with them all the time it's about cutting the $$ and minimizing losses.

 

[d5667]

The last statement is not entirely true,Ins co.'s are getting away from straightening, and sectioning frame rails, anything other than a slight tweak gets replaced, engine out blah,blah$$$$ This is why. A folded up rail is just that, it's done it's job as they are designed to collapse. Fishplating and or sleeving the rail you have taken away the ability of absorbing the collision impact.The cabin collapses instead. If it's still slightly crumpled it collapses to fast. You have altered air bag timing. The rebuilder can straighten it , mud it, paint it,cover the damage up, throw some used(no warranty and some states do not allow this) air bags in it and call it a day. The new ins. game with these salvage cars , you bid on salvage, pay, the ins mails title (paperwork takes a few days), and it's marked "parts only" Do your research , I'm seeing this more and more. Cars and bikes. Alot of cars by time you write up sensors ,bags, dash panel, seat belt pre-tensionors, clock springs they're close to total already. And yes it's all about liability, and they look at the repair time and rental car bills. No defending ins. co., but dealing with them all the time it's about cutting the $$ and minimizing losses.

You are correct George,when you see"salvage title" that relieves the manufacturer of liabilities and also relieves the insurance company of the value of the vehicle.changing fenders doors quarter skins is fine for a novice to do.cosmetics are totally different than structural integrity.

 

[barbee6043]

I agree with what you are saying, but I ask..... these older vehiucles that get a bent fender, and mashed grill..... nothing structural... the ins co. totals it as it is the cheaper route.
.... this takes a lot of older still useful vehicles off the road... I guess for ins co, the gov't, car manu. , dealership, this is great! LOL

 

[d5667]

Well you need to look at the bigger picture-20 years ago we went to 50or 60 different auctions,in fact we would take turns going to different ones.Now"copart" has just about strangled the small auctions out.Copart being a coop of insurance companies can now "salvage" or "parts only" a vehicle.There have been way to many novice rebuilds/low quality rebuilds that have held manufacturers responsible for "defects".Now once a structural panel has been replaced wheither AMD-Taiwan-china or from another vehicle the manufacturer/insurance can disavow a claim.this is why I strongly disagree with using mostly aftermarket panels to rebuild a vehicle.Now we will hear from the VIN police and they will say it is fine to surround the VIN with AMD/Taiwan/china panels and for a novice to put them together.Maybe I have seen too much of novice/shady body shops.

 

[GeorgeH]

absolutely correct, Most totals never see public auction first go around. private salvage dealers only. have to keep in mind the volume of used parts in just collision repair . The ins co spec used a very high% of times. Used if its available almost 100% of the time. They are not letting go the salvage as they save money on the back end. It's been awhile since I've been in a shop, but even knowing the adjusters and their bosses etc never helped. It's a big circle. Once they pay off on the car it's theirs to mark the title however they wish , "Parts only" that vin will never see a tag. As like said it's big players , Copart, LKQ . The little guy can't compete when your buying a few cars verse 100's. The sum of the parts will always be greater than the whole. keep in mind salvage goes over seas. also a tremendous market.

Craigslist. is full of older cars 200k miles with one off colored fender and bumper and a zip tied headlight. One test drive and a lost tranny goes your profit margin. just sayin.

 

[Mad Dart]

Lol, My old next door neighbor just got quoted $15K to do his 70 Challenger. The car is on stilts too. Stripped of everything and it hardly needs any body work. California for you. I told him that is a straight out rip off. I can't see having more than 8 hours prep on it. Materials can not be more than $2500.00

 

[ddettloff]

I painted my car this summer lots of orange peel now I have to try to understand how to fix that.
I have been playing with these cars for 30 years and this was first attempt at painting just couldn't find a painter who was less than 5k at best just to paint.
My question is what grit paper to start with and finish with.
Single stage acrylic paint was used thanks for any advice.

 

[GeorgeH]

Lol, My old next door neighbor just got quoted $15K to do his 70 Challenger. The car is on stilts too. Stripped of everything and it hardly needs any body work. California for you. I told him that is a straight out rip off. I can't see having more than 8 hours prep on it. Materials can not be more than $2500.00

Not sure on the 15k seems high to me for what your saying, but even with bodywork and prime done ,I don't know many(or any) preppers even in their prime that can rock an allover with 500/600 grit wet on soft block,and get it wrapped in 8 hours and be thorough about it .

 

[Mad Dart]

Not sure on the 15k seems high to me for what your saying, but even with bodywork and prime done ,I don't know many(or any) preppers even in their prime that can rock an allover with 500/600 grit wet on soft block,and get it wrapped in 8 hours and be thorough about it .

There is NOTHING to Wrap/mask off. It is stripped to the gills.......I mean EVERYTHING is off the car. Bare Body.

It is a CALIFORNIA RUST FREE CAR......Ok to be fair lets give them 3 Days then..... He is still getting fucked in the ***!

 

[1930]

The last statement is not entirely true,Ins co.'s are getting away from straightening, and sectioning frame rails, anything other than a slight tweak gets replaced, engine out blah,blah$$$$ This is why. A folded up rail is just that, it's done it's job as they are designed to collapse. Fishplating and or sleeving the rail you have taken away the ability of absorbing the collision impact.The cabin collapses instead. If it's still slightly crumpled it collapses to fast. You have altered air bag timing. The rebuilder can straighten it , mud it, paint it,cover the damage up, throw some used(no warranty and some states do not allow this) air bags in it and call it a day. The new ins. game with these salvage cars , you bid on salvage, pay, the ins mails title (paperwork takes a few days), and it's marked "parts only" Do your research , I'm seeing this more and more. Cars and bikes. Alot of cars by time you write up sensors ,bags, dash panel, seat belt pre-tensionors, clock springs they're close to total already. And yes it's all about liability, and they look at the repair time and rental car bills. No defending ins. co., but dealing with them all the time it's about cutting the $$ and minimizing losses.

No clear on which part isnt true but the bottom line is that the insurance carriers are lowering their threshold for what they deem as a repairable vehicle. As mentioned for years it has been 70 olus % and now some are down to 50.

I am clear on your other comments but not all wreck re-builders have spent their efforts on ...........straighten it , mud it, paint it,cover the damage up,

 

[barbee6043]

I painted my car this summer lots of orange peel now I have to try to understand how to fix that.
I have been playing with these cars for 30 years and this was first attempt at painting just couldn't find a painter who was less than 5k at best just to paint.
My question is what grit paper to start with and finish with.
Single stage acrylic paint was used thanks for any advice.

acrylic emamel and urethane will always have orange peel to some degree. been 10 years since I was at mopar nats, but the big dog judging there, those mega bucks resto cars,.... the rersto shop duplicated the look of the car as it left the factory right down to the orange peel, no BC/CC !

I will let an expert advise if you can wet sand/ buff and do any good. some may recommend a clear over the enamel???????

I congradulate you for getting paint on your car. everything is a learning process and m istakes can always be corrected/ improved upon.???

 

[barbee6043]

There is NOTHING to Wrap/mask off. It is stripped to the gills.......I mean EVERYTHING is off the car. Bare Body.

It is a CALIFORNIA RUST FREE CAR......Ok to be fair lets give them 3 Days then..... He is still getting fucked in the ***!

maybe the shop has a $10,000-12,-0000 fee for the customers car to enter the pant booth!?????

If I were him, I would look long and hard for a different shop!!!!

these cars always had some filler at the factory before paint, but WOW!. a bare shell, no rust, darn staright I assume, that's nuts!!!!

 

[moper]

Lol, My old next door neighbor just got quoted $15K to do his 70 Challenger. The car is on stilts too. Stripped of everything and it hardly needs any body work. California for you. I told him that is a straight out rip off. I can't see having more than 8 hours prep on it. Materials can not be more than $2500.00

Just for comparison - To completly finish a '71 Cuda, lots of steel work, so it was inside and out 100% color change, with Spee (sp?) paint materials in Limelight green - the materials costs alone were $9800. That was before tax (6.35% in CT) Over $10K for the primer, sealer, base, and clear and that was 10 years ago. It is entirely possible if the guy said "I want the best" in terms of materials, and the car needs a little filler (they ALL do), setting thing gaps ,etching, primering, blocking, then finishing that $15K was not a big deal to reach.

 

[d5667]

You are on the money Moper!None and I mean none of these cars are straight from the factory!If you want straight you gotta pay for it!This is all relative!If you can live with flat white you won't see a bunch of imperfections but if you want black pearl and no imperfections then get out your wallet!30 footers cost less than 5 footers!You can certainly paint for 100-500 but if you put it next to a 7000-10000 paint job you will be disappointed.Whatever you can live with!

 

[moper]

The Mopars were never known for nice bodywork. However, as a comparison, try doing a Gremiln... That is an exercise in patience and inginuity to make one straight, good gaps, etc.
There's painting it, and there's doing the body. They are NOT the same. I can paint a car for $500. Or I can "do the body" and paint the car for lots, lots more.

 

[GeorgeH]

No clear on which part isnt true but the bottom line is that the insurance carriers are lowering their threshold for what they deem as a repairable vehicle. As mentioned for years it has been 70 olus % and now some are down to 50.

I am clear on your other comments but not all wreck re-builders have spent their efforts on ...........straighten it , mud it, paint it,cover the damage up,

On the part where you say the cars didn't need totaled, The cost of the repairs have exceeded the threshold whatever it may be. Like you said used to be 75% sometimes less as they look at other factors such as how long the customer will be in a rental. I've seen customer attitude play a role as well. When a person's car gets hit sometimes there is absolutely nothing you can do to satisfy them because of the "it's been wrecked stigma"

Ins co's are not in the habit of writing parts a car doesn't need. With rebuilds, it becomes about what can I repair/save and put the money in my pocket. Not saying every shop will hack one together, but it happens. All said and done you selling a car with the "rebuilt" stigma at a discount to a more educated consumer these days. You can wrap up a bunch of your own money in finished cars that don't go anywhere fast. Alot of times the only way to get the cars is that the owner gets first dibs on the buyback,and I have got a few this way, but most don't understand and take the check from ins co even after offering them a premium. Most salvage yards build cars, so everything that hits the public has been gone over as to feasability. As discussed earlier the shop these cars are sitting in alot of times can't even bid on them. You end up with a lot more time involved in these cars also, going to auctions, chasing parts, dealing with tire kickers etc on top of doing the repairs. Go do your local auction circuit. I would start there if your really interested in this. It doesn't take long to figure out alot of cars run the circle until unsuspecting buys it. Inspections can be limited and can make or break you. Do your reseach. been there done this, it wasn't for me.

 

[Mad Dart]

Just for comparison - To completly finish a '71 Cuda, lots of steel work, so it was inside and out 100% color change, with Spee (sp?) paint materials in Limelight green - the materials costs alone were $9800. That was before tax (6.35% in CT) Over $10K for the primer, sealer, base, and clear and that was 10 years ago. It is entirely possible if the guy said "I want the best" in terms of materials, and the car needs a little filler (they ALL do), setting thing gaps ,etching, primering, blocking, then finishing that $15K was not a big deal to reach.

Gosh Dang.....Yeah I have seen people spend crazy $$ on paint and body. I won't do it because I use and abuse my car. I actually run it! Parking lot hopper, show stopper, trailer queen. Sure, spend that $ and cry when you get a little nick or scratch on it.... Not worth the headache to me.

I frequent the local car shows and stuff here in town. I know most of them. Those guys always asks me to park and stay, they will let me in for free etc. I tell them NAH, I am headed to the beach or whatever.... They say Damn you drive your car that far? Then I tell them about my set up and that I usually go through 2 tanks of fuel each time I take it out and use 1/2 to 1 full bottle of NOS... then they really say I am crazy. I just don't have the patients to sit around all day. The paint on my car is not perfect but I would say it is a 7-8 on a 10 Scale. For me that is plenty.

 

[d5667]

Gosh Dang.....Yeah I have seen people spend crazy $$ on paint and body. I won't do it because I use and abuse my car. I actually run it! Parking lot hopper, show stopper, trailer queen. Sure, spend that $ and cry when you get a little nick or scratch on it.... Not worth the headache to me.

I frequent the local car shows and stuff here in town. I know most of them. Those guys always asks me to park and stay, they will let me in for free etc. I tell them NAH, I am headed to the beach or whatever.... They say Damn you drive your car that far? Then I tell them about my set up and that I usually go through 2 tanks of fuel each time I take it out and use 1/2 to 1 full bottle of NOS... then they really say I am crazy. I just don't have the patients to sit around all day. The paint on my car is not perfect but I would say it is a 7-8 on a 10 Scale. For me that is plenty.

There it is in a nut shell.To some their#2 paint job is a#10!Some go for the"rat rod" look!I can appreciate just about any combination.My opinion may not be the same as another but if you don't want it-don't ask!This hobby must have cheap paint jobs and it must have top of the line jobs.Enjoy it for what it is!

 

[GeorgeH]

There is NOTHING to Wrap/mask off. It is stripped to the gills.......I mean EVERYTHING is off the car. Bare Body.

It is a CALIFORNIA RUST FREE CAR......Ok to be fair lets give them 3 Days then..... He is still getting fucked in the ***!

There is as many ways to paint a car as there is painters.
Stripped and on stilts, Soooo.... complete underside, trunk area, complete interior, engine compartment, and exterior and whatever is loose. That's alot of surface to maintain a wet edge and get around on one shot without having dry spray lay back on the interior floors or trunk floor or blow back out on the exterior. You'll have quite a bit of time just cleaning the shell after prep.

Most painters would break this down to trim out then paint, do the interior then back tape the holes, strategically done so there is no lines and it would provide a cleaner job.Requiring not only masking but several trips through the booth depending how it's done. Probably triple the surface area of just an exterior along with the materials and you still have to rub your fingers over every square inch.

Not to argue the 15k figure, for whats involved here, but there more materials and labor involved then what first meets the eye. it's sounds like he wants a top notch job with quality materials. Hopefully that what he gets

 

[peteretdfd]

Hey guys I'm new to this stuff the mechanical stuff I can do been working on my own cars since 14-15 yrs old because I had too. Was raise on the wrong side of the tracks but was able to get good work and earn a living and was able to get my 1st muscle car about 20 yrs of age and didn't know what I had at the time it was a67 barracuda FB Form/S 383HP 4speed 3.23 rear for about $2800 in 1970. Well went into the milatary came home got married started having kids and the car wouldn't fit the family so the muscle car had to go. So fast forward 40 yrs later and now I'm retired and have alittle money left at the end of the month.I have always taken care of family first and even others in the family too.Always put me last.So I started looking for this type of car again.Well as I looked one that was a driver $12,000 to 20,000 and a restored version $25000 to $50000 way out of my price range. But then I found wrecked at the Columbus,OH Mopar event that they wanted 6500 for but it was wrecked so I have alot of work to do but not affraid of work or a challenge (was Firefighter/Medic for 35yrs) so here we go. I finding out that some people like there part real well and some allittle less I'm sure that is the same for paint and repair but for me this is dream come true and I will enjoy ever minute in my very small 2cars garage working on my baby and the children can keep it or sell when I'm gone. My 2 cents

 

[airwoofer]

There is NOTHING to Wrap/mask off. It is stripped to the gills.......I mean EVERYTHING is off the car. Bare Body.

It is a CALIFORNIA RUST FREE CAR......Ok to be fair lets give them 3 Days then..... He is still getting fucked in the ***!

A car like that (and my 68 fish) can be dipped in acid and then dipped in primer. A OEM foreign car place in MS does that and I will probably take them up on it. Gotts to replace the floors first.

Remember Earl Schieb? $29.95, any car, any color. We blocked a 63 bug and had it painted there. Paint lasted a long time until I made a Baja Bug outta it and painted it again, in the driveway.

 

[moper]

Gosh Dang.....Yeah I have seen people spend crazy $$ on paint and body. I won't do it because I use and abuse my car. I actually run it! Parking lot hopper, show stopper, trailer queen. Sure, spend that $ and cry when you get a little nick or scratch on it.... Not worth the headache to me.

I frequent the local car shows and stuff here in town. I know most of them. Those guys always asks me to park and stay, they will let me in for free etc. I tell them NAH, I am headed to the beach or whatever.... They say Damn you drive your car that far? Then I tell them about my set up and that I usually go through 2 tanks of fuel each time I take it out and use 1/2 to 1 full bottle of NOS... then they really say I am crazy. I just don't have the patients to sit around all day. The paint on my car is not perfect but I would say it is a 7-8 on a 10 Scale. For me that is plenty.

MAD - I think I speak for more than a few of us when I say we I just want to be you...lol. Do you need a son-from-another-mother?

 

[1930]

On the part where you say the cars didn't need totaled, The cost of the repairs have exceeded the threshold whatever it may be. Like you said used to be 75% sometimes less as they look at other factors such as how long the customer will be in a rental. I've seen customer attitude play a role as well. When a person's car gets hit sometimes there is absolutely nothing you can do to satisfy them because of the "it's been wrecked stigma"

Ins co's are not in the habit of writing parts a car doesn't need. With rebuilds, it becomes about what can I repair/save and put the money in my pocket. Not saying every shop will hack one together, but it happens. All said and done you selling a car with the "rebuilt" stigma at a discount to a more educated consumer these days. You can wrap up a bunch of your own money in finished cars that don't go anywhere fast. Alot of times the only way to get the cars is that the owner gets first dibs on the buyback,and I have got a few this way, but most don't understand and take the check from ins co even after offering them a premium. Most salvage yards build cars, so everything that hits the public has been gone over as to feasability. As discussed earlier the shop these cars are sitting in alot of times can't even bid on them. You end up with a lot more time involved in these cars also, going to auctions, chasing parts, dealing with tire kickers etc on top of doing the repairs. Go do your local auction circuit. I would start there if your really interested in this. It doesn't take long to figure out alot of cars run the circle until unsuspecting buys it. Inspections can be limited and can make or break you. Do your reseach. been there done this, it wasn't for me.

Thanks for the advice, the entire auction circuit will be new to me, my only experience has been repairing the vehicles for the shops owner. My intention is not to solely rely on this particular venue, I plan to dabble in a few things and see what works best for me.

On a sidenote ( as an example ) I pulled in a 2014 Kia Sedona this afternoon before heading home. ( Teardown ) Hit in the front and rear, minor damage to the front, cover and majority of components, R H/lamp, core support ( plastic bolt in ) hood and minor damage to fender.

Rear has seen better days, needs right rail ( section ) Qtr is buckled but I can straighten, floor is not so bad ( again after a pull it can be saved, rear body panel ( have to replace rear troughs on this particular vehicle when doing rear body panel cause these vehicles are built from rear forward ) rear cover and related components.

Might be a 60-65 Hr labor job, no big deal a few years ago, cars gonna total cause the driver was hit by the other guy, already lawyered up and is crying depreciation. Vehicle can be safely repaired but its gonna be a wash. Times are changing rapidly.

 

[Woods74]

Every time I give my advice, a fight starts out, so if you want to know what I think, google it.

Good luck with the project.