72 Duster Resurrection

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bad connections at the firewall( where all those wire go inside the cab, this is generally an issue. there is an article "MADD" that addresses solutions for this firewall and instrument cluster problems that plaque most of these old mopars.
 
Do those plugs have gaskets on the bottom? They are not supposed to have them. When you replace them, take the supplied gaskets off or dont install any loose gasket: the spark plug tubes create the plug gasket on the bottom. Make sure you got that voltage regulator bolted down onto some CLEAN metal and even use a star washer to get some good contact. The E-regulator varied the ground to the alternator instead of the + voltage of old for more of a fail safe operation and the ground it varied was delivered through that case. As for ehgrinding noise, I cant really say, but a Chrysler gear reduction starter is no song bird compared to a Ford or Chebby. IF you need a new starter, get a 'mini' one from a newer RAM pickup: Smaller, lighter quieter and more torque!

I believe the plugs do each have a little gasket on the bottom. I'll be sure to remove them before reinstalling. Good tip about the voltage regulator, I did not know it uses the case as a ground. I will make sure its attached to the body. Im gonna try to get it to start with the existing starter. If that fails, Im going for that newer RAM style as you and other here have recommended.

Needs an M body disc brake conversion. Yes, stock mopar hi torque starters sound awful. A mini denso from a ram pickup or van with magnum v6 or v8 is a bolt on.

Agreed, disk brakes are in the future for me, especially if I go V8. Yep, starter sounds like a bucket of rusty bolts poured down a concrete stairwell. Replacement is on the list.

bad connections at the firewall( where all those wire go inside the cab, this is generally an issue. there is an article "MADD" that addresses solutions for this firewall and instrument cluster problems that plaque most of these old mopars.

Thank. You. Seriously.
First off, is this the article you are talking about? Catalog
Because this sounds very much like whats happening. I think I even do see a wiggle on the amp meter in the dash when I try to jump the car but nothing else. I did disconnect and spray contact cleaner on those firewall connectors, but sounds like they need a closer look. I shall report back on that.

Thanks everyone for the solid intel as usual, keep it coming!

I will try my best to reward you guys with a video of its first fire up if I can get that far.
 
Nice! I just found my old 76 dart I owned back in highschool, and bought it back. I checked the fluids, sprayed some gas in the carb, and it fired right up. Actually stayed running on the 12 year old gas it had in the tank.

Never Never Never Never try to run a car or anything with bad gas in it. It could destroy the engine. what happens is it gums up the intake valves and they stick open when you stop the engine, the next time you start the pistons will hit the valves and unstick them, which is bad enough, but also you will most likely bend a bush rod when it drops out of the socket on the rocker, and additives to the fuel may help the issue, but then you may end up with a bunch of sediment in the carb.

and yes I know this from experience.
 
I believe the plugs do each have a little gasket on the bottom. I'll be sure to remove them before reinstalling. Good tip about the voltage regulator, I did not know it uses the case as a ground. I will make sure its attached to the body. Im gonna try to get it to start with the existing starter. If that fails, Im going for that newer RAM style as you and other here have recommended.



Agreed, disk brakes are in the future for me, especially if I go V8. Yep, starter sounds like a bucket of rusty bolts poured down a concrete stairwell. Replacement is on the list.



Thank. You. Seriously.
First off, is this the article you are talking about? Catalog
Because this sounds very much like whats happening. I think I even do see a wiggle on the amp meter in the dash when I try to jump the car but nothing else. I did disconnect and spray contact cleaner on those firewall connectors, but sounds like they need a closer look. I shall report back on that.

Thanks everyone for the solid intel as usual, keep it coming!

I will try my best to reward you guys with a video of its first fire up if I can get that far.
 
Never Never Never Never try to run a car or anything with bad gas in it. It could destroy the engine. what happens is it gums up the intake valves and they stick open when you stop the engine, the next time you start the pistons will hit the valves and unstick them, which is bad enough, but also you will most likely bend a bush rod when it drops out of the socket on the rocker, and additives to the fuel may help the issue, but then you may end up with a bunch of sediment in the carb.

and yes I know this from experience.

Hmm, seems like there are two schools of though on this one.

Multiple earlier posts in this forum are highlighting the /6's ability to handle at least some percent of old varnish and junk in the gas if its diluted with fresh gas. I know that running junk is bad intuitively, of course, but sounds like there is not a consensus about it...

If I wanted to be safe, whats the easiest way to pump out the gas tank? disconnect supply line to carb and let the motor turn over? siphon gas out of tank?
 
[QU



Thank. You. Seriously.
First off, is this the article you are talking about? Catalog
Because this sounds very much like whats happening. I think I even do see a wiggle on the amp meter in the dash when I try to jump the car but nothing else. I did disconnect and spray contact cleaner on those firewall connectors, but sounds like they need a closer look. I shall report back on that.

Thanks everyone for the solid intel as usual, keep it coming!

I will try my best to reward you guys with a video of its first fire up if I can get that far.[/QUOTE]

yes that is the article...... yes the amp gauge can cause cabin fire and that gauge can be a be a problem... BUT the important part is getting HOT good wires in and out of the firewall!!! without that, it will always be a battle!
 
Hmm, seems like there are two schools of though on this one.

Multiple earlier posts in this forum are highlighting the /6's ability to handle at least some percent of old varnish and junk in the gas if its diluted with fresh gas. I know that running junk is bad intuitively, of course, but sounds like there is not a consensus about it...

If I wanted to be safe, whats the easiest way to pump out the gas tank? disconnect supply line to carb and let the motor turn over? siphon gas out of tank?

I put 5 gallons of bad gas in my 63 /6 dart diluted it with good gas and ended up having to replace 3 push rods and flush out the carb. I put the same diluted gas in my lawn mower and it did the same thing.

So use it at your own risk.
 
Never Never Never Never try to run a car or anything with bad gas in it. It could destroy the engine. what happens is it gums up the intake valves and they stick open when you stop the engine, the next time you start the pistons will hit the valves and unstick them, which is bad enough, but also you will most likely bend a bush rod when it drops out of the socket on the rocker, and additives to the fuel may help the issue, but then you may end up with a bunch of sediment in the carb.

and yes I know this from experience.

I'm not exactly worried about it, it could have been newer gas for all I know.. I mean it ran pretty good on it until it ran dry, but I do understand what you're saying.
 
I put all my bad gas in my lawnmower. The gas of today is worse! I have to clean the carb almost every time I mow (weekly out here with no rain) because of the ethanol jello that it leaves behind. I have a beater Mazda pick up that I have not put gas in in 2 years. I start it up every 2 months for about 15 minutes to scare the cats out and burn off the spiderwebs. No problems but it smells funny. If you can extend the fuel line below the tank, it will siphon most out once you get it flowing. Do what you feel is necessary but I dont know what your going to do with 5 gallons of bad gas. Bonfire?
 
Valid points all around.

I think I will at least throw some fresh gas in the tank, disconnect the carb feed line, and let the fuel pump shoot it into a bucket for a bit. That way I can at least look at/smell the first but of "gas" it would have thrown in my carb.

However, no amount of fresh gas will help anything if I can't get the stupid electrical system to energize.

I strongly suspect bad connections that carry 12V into the cab through the firewall. After reading the MAD article mentioned above, I see what everyone is talking about. Dodge decided to run the full current load of the alternator through a tiny paddle connection so they could read amps on the amp-meter in the dash, then back out to the battery. This understandably causes problems on all the wires subjected to high current.

I will look at that first this evening (if it stops raining, never a break from rain in Houston)...
 
This is a lot of info to take in, some of which you can use right away to get the car running. Some at a later date while driving/fixing up

What i have done in the past is unpin the wires from the bulkhead connectors 1 wire at a time, clean the male or female spade, squeeze the female to hold the male a little tighter and reinstall. Then remove and clean the next wire end. This way they dont get mixed up. A cup of CLR or tarnex, and a steel wire brush to clean. Use rinse water, and blow dry w compressed air, then reinstall. When done use electrical connector grease. I got mine at the local harley davidson dealer. This insures continuity, and keeps moisture out. This is slow going but will eliminate a lot of issues at the bulkhead

On female spades i made a removal tool out of a jewelers screwdriver to slip in and bend the lock tab in to remove the spade from the plastic connector. On the males a pair of small needle nose plyers to squeeze them in and release the lock tab. On installation bend the lock tabs back in place to lock the male and female spades back into the connector. If unsure of how to depin the connectors, i'd get a few junk ones you can practice on first.

You may want to concider doing an ammeter bypass down the road as well. You alternators full output goes through the bulkhead, into the ammeter, and back to the battery. Over time as the connectors corrode the bulkhead connection gets hot and will melt the wiring at this junction. The bypass eliminates this problem but requires you to remove the ammeter from the circuit. The bypass is pretty easy to do, and you can put a sun volt gage in place of the ammeter and have it all appear stock. Theres several threads on fabo about the bypass, and on the sun voltmeter refit.

I also went with dimmable 5630 led strip lighting for my gages. The stock lighting is too dim in spots. Its very easy to do. Just peel and stick to line the perimeter of the gage housing. It has a cut line and solder spots every 3 light segments. Its super cheap too about $5 - $7 for 5 meters (about 15 feet) and comes in a multitude of different colors. The pix with it lit up are shown using a 9v battery. The led strip is incredibly efficient. You will notice in my last gage pic the ammeter looks like its on full discharge. Its actually the afore mentioned sun voltage gage i dissassembled and modded to fit using the the ammeter face and ammeters gage needle on the volt gage.

See below pix of the ammeter bypass schematics. Diagram A is stock wiring. Diagram B is the bypassed wiring. This is a good thing to do especially if you decide to upgrade your alternator to a higher output one for a stereo, or EFI or other accessories. The bypass wiring schematic shows to run the wires thru the firewall and eliminate the connection point at the bulkhead, however if you clean everything up and tighten the connections, and do the bypass, the stock connector shouldent be a problem anymore.

If upgrading to higher output alternator, you will need to increase size of alternator to battery wire. I am wiring up my car for a 50A mini denso, the stock wiring is insufficient so i upgraded to #8 gage, with a #12 gage fusible link at the battery connection end.

A lot of guys here do a headlamp relay mod as well. This allows for brighter headlamps, and doesnt run all the amperage through the bulkhead and thru the headlight switch and dimmer switch. Doing this mod and installing a pair of good halogen headlights is about all you need to see well at night. The bottom 2 pix below is the relay box and 35A 5 pin micro relays i got off the net, made by littlefuse and the mounting location i plan on putting it. I wanted something compact , water resistant, as well as somewhat stock looking to blend in to the engine compartment.

My car is still in the mockup stage for the wiring, and mounting and fitting stuff, then it will come apart for final body and paint

I hope all this helps you out.
Matt

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You wanna start it gangsta style? Clip a roach from the battery + to the coil + side AND the blue/yellow trace prong of the ECU and hit the starter relay lugs with a screwdriver.

on the ballast resistor: The blue trace is hot in RUN and the yellow trace is hot only on START. Thats all you need for ignition/run/start.

Here is my first points ignition slant startup, hotwired of course...I didnt have the fuel hooked up so it died.


 
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Ladies and Gentlemen,

Last night in my yard it was dark, it was muddy, and we got the Duster to start!

As promised, see below for a poorly lit, poorly angled video of a couple very tired but excited guys at the moment this slant 6 first started after over 3 years of sitting.



A very exciting night all around, thanks to everyone for their input!

Now its time to make a long list of everything that I need to do to get her ready to drive, but first a couple of things:

-The only way we were able to get it to turn over with the key is by making the following modification to the starter relay:

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As far as I understand, by taking that terminal to ground, I am bypassing the neutral safety switch on the trans. Is that correct? So I should replace the NSS?...


-The engine idled nice and smooth while spraying the carb with regular gas, but the temp gauge steadly increase until it pegged out at over 250. We maybe ran for 2 mins like that before we noticed and shut it down. We had just filled the radiator with water and when we felt it, it was cold to the touch.

So that made me think I have a stuck thermostat, so I pulled off the thermostat housing, removed the thermostat (it was rusty looking). We turned over the engine with the thermo housing off to verify that the water pump was pumping and it was.

So we put the thermo housing back on, hooked the radiator back up, and fired the engine back up.

The radiator hoses and radiator started to warm up immediately, indicating that the water was now circulating, but the temp gage still showed a steady increase at idle until it pegged out, then we shut it down.

Any thoughts on those two things?

I cant wait to drive this baby!

PS, this was what the first gallon or so of "gas" looked like. We had disconnected the carb feed line and let it spray into that red paint can. Once it started running on starter spray, we switched to a spray bottle with regular gas in it.

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Is your fuel level gage pegging along with the temp gage pegging in rhe dash?

Also i believe on M/T cars the starter relay is missing that one terminal, but automatic trans cars have that terminal for neutral safety wiring.
 
Is your fuel level gage pegging along with the temp gage pegging in rhe dash?

Hmm, not sure about that but I dont think so. I actually think the fuel gage stayed at completely empty for the whole thing, even with 5 gals of gas in it.
 
Ok. Just an FYI, if your fuel gage and water temp gage ever are both pegging or going to empty/cold. Then the instrument voltage regulator is on the fritz. The gages you have run on 5V except the ammeter and speedometer. They use a little vibrating points regulator on the back the gage cluster to drop 12v to 5v if it sticks closed they peg, if it sticks open they drop to empty or cold.

I would use a point n shoot digital thermometer to see if the engine is getting too hot. Its a possibility the sending unit for the gage is bad, pegging it out. The sender is on the front of the cylinder head, with a purple wire going to it. The water temp sender is dirt cheap, i think the same part number was used up thru the 90s on chrysler 2.2 and 2.5 4 cylinder and 3.0 V6 engines.
 
You may want to concider doing an ammeter bypass down the road as well

If upgrading to higher output alternator, you will need to increase size of alternator to battery wire.

A lot of guys here do a headlamp relay mod as well.

Thanks for the info, I think all three of these upgrades on in my future here.

You wanna start it gangsta style? Clip a roach from the battery + to the coil + side AND the blue/yellow trace prong of the ECU and hit the starter relay lugs with a screwdriver.

on the ballast resistor: The blue trace is hot in RUN and the yellow trace is hot only on START. Thats all you need for ignition/run/start.

Here is my first points ignition slant startup, hotwired of course...I didnt have the fuel hooked up so it died.




I like it! thats actually pretty much what I did to get the starter to move for the first time.

Before you go putting too much faith in the half-baked advice from the Chevy-heads at MAD Electrical, see here and here.

Lots to think about here, but you make some valid points. I like the sound of your modification that adds wires running from the alt to batt+. Maybe giving most of that current somewhere to go will help out my gage problems...

Ok. Just an FYI, if your fuel gage and water temp gage ever are both pegging or going to empty/cold. Then the instrument voltage regulator is on the fritz. The gages you have run on 5V except the ammeter and speedometer. They use a little vibrating points regulator on the back the gage cluster to drop 12v to 5v if it sticks closed they peg, if it sticks open they drop to empty or cold.

I would use a point n shoot digital thermometer to see if the engine is getting too hot. Its a possibility the sending unit for the gage is bad, pegging it out. The sender is on the front of the cylinder head, with a purple wire going to it. The water temp sender is dirt cheap, i think the same part number was used up thru the 90s on chrysler 2.2 and 2.5 4 cylinder and 3.0 V6 engines.

Good to know. I'll pay closer attention to how the gages move next time I start up. I thought about getting a temp gun for the motor. What temp is too hot for the outside of the block to be?

I also thought about that sending unit, I'll probably just replace it because its so easy and cheap.
 
Not sure on the temp for a slanty since i'm a V8 guy, but i would assume not over 185-190. I been making and selling solid state IVRs to replace the old points type ones. If you decide to do the gage cluster upgrades when you have it out and want to go solid state on your IVR let me know.

See pix below. This was my mod to the ammeter gage converting it to volts with an aftermarket sun volt gage. Top pic i had not clipped and super glued the old amneter pointer to the volt gage yet. On the second volt gage pic i added a 12V red led for a alternator fault light since i am running a mini denso alternator that has a fault light indicator.

Remaining pix are for upgrading to electronic ignition and using a GM HEI to fire it. Last schematic is mine This setup gives a way hotter spark, and eliminates the ballast resistor. On a slanty you will need to make a mount bracket for the GM module, V8 engines you can mount the GM module right on the mopar distributor with a neat little bracket. You can use an E coil off a 90s GM truck or a pertronix ignitor lll oil filled cylindrical coil.

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Starter relays. Top pic is for automatic transmission neutral safety. Bottom pic is manual transmission. I have used automatic trans relays in manual trans cars, and it just has that extra terminal thats unused. You cannot however use the manual trans relay in automatic trans cars because of the need for a neutral safety wire hookup.

The pic you have of the starter relay is incorrect for your year. These relays shown require a good ground to the body, and have 4 connections at most. Batt to starter big lug terminal. Starter relay to starter solenoid smaller lug terminal. Ign sw hot, and neutral safety.

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Starter relays. Top pic is for automatic transmission neutral safety. Bottom pic is manual transmission. I have used automatic trans relays in manual trans cars, and it just has that extra terminal thats unused. You cannot however use the manual trans relay in automatic trans cars because of the need for a neutral safety wire hookup.

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Right, so I have an auto trans in the car, and the auto trans relay (your top pic).

However, I was unable to get the starter to turn over with the key (with the car in neutral) when the neutral safety terminal on the relay was connected to the wire that was plugged into it when I received the car.

Only by unplugging that wire and directly connecting that terminal to ground did I get the starter to turn with the key.

So that means I have a problem with my auto trans neutral safety switch right? Because I am effectively bypassing it and the car is able to start.
 
Yes probably. I'd ohm out the wire to the neutral safety switch to eliminate an internal break in the wiring. The neutral safety switch on that year is a multifunction switch. Its used for park and neutral starting, and for turning on the reverse lights. Also make sure you have a good body to engine ground at the firewall. Not having this causes all sorts of weird problems. I think mopar went to this switch about 1968 and continued to use it on all RWD automatic transmissions at least thru the early 1980s. Should look similar to pic below. It will be on the left side of the trans near shifter linkage input to the trans. Put a bucket or pan under it when you swap it out.

I would recommend rock auto for most of what you will need. I use em and they are great. Especially when stuff goes on closeout. Just checked rockauto. They got a neutral safety switch. airtex/wells PN# 9A6 for $6.35. For 1972 duster slant 6 automatic. I try to round up a bunch of stuff i need from em being shipped from the same location so i only get hit with 1 shipping cost. Way cheaper than local stores like vatozone. On this old stuff they would have to special order it anyway.

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Right now i am recuperating from lower back surgery i had yesterday to remove a bulge from one of my discs. So i'm bored as heck for the next 2 weeks. I'm hoping all the info i am sending your way is going to help you.

I think you mentioned you messed with chevys before you got the duster. I think over time working on this car to get it running you will find out that Chrysler did some pretty solid engineering on these cars. Also the unibody on these is pretty strong and also pretty light compared to a full frame car.
 
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