Duster Captain
Well-Known Member
I wish I had though about that yesterday. I only ran for a few minutes with it pegging, so hopefully its not broken. I'll unplug it before I run again.
72 Duster Resurrection
- Thread starter Duster Captain
- Start date
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I wish I had though about that yesterday. I only ran for a few minutes with it pegging, so hopefully its not broken. I'll unplug it before I run again.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Once you get all the broke stuff figured out, then you can start having fun upgrading things. Whatever else, dont lose heart. These cars are pretty old now, so theres a lot more to deal with to make em roadworthy. However in the end its worth it. They are pretty simple to work on, mechanical parts arent too terribly expensive, and when you drive it around, all sorts of folks will be saying hey i had one of those years ago, or my friend had one, or hey does it have a slant six in it etc. Plus when done you will know way more about it and will be able to fix damn near anything on it, or help others doing the same thing with an old dart or duster.
Duster Captain
Well-Known Member
Next step I need some guidance on:
The brakes are completely shot. Standing on them while pulling the e-brake will kind of sort of slow the car down....
So here are the options I see from doing research. Anyone care to vote for their recommendation?
The brakes are completely shot. Standing on them while pulling the e-brake will kind of sort of slow the car down....
So here are the options I see from doing research. Anyone care to vote for their recommendation?
- Rebuild current drum brakes. Flush, refill fluid, change pads, etc.
- Find a donor car (73' and up right?) with disk brakes and swap it onto my car. Ive seen some write ups for this...
- Get a nice shiny new disk brake conversion kit. Will this make me go to a new bolt battern for my tires? I'd prefer to not have to buy new rims...
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Absolute cheapest way to go is probably rebuild the drum brakes, and flush out the lines. If on the cheap cheap, I'd at the very least pull the drums off and look at the pads to see if they have enough pad on them. if they look good, and theres no leaking at the wheel cylinders, i would open up all 4 brake bleeders and shoot compressed air from the master cylinder down through the lines to make sure they are clear, and blow out all the old fluid, then i would replace all 3 flex hoses since they are probably original and dry rotted. Refill the system and bleed it, and see whatcha got pedalwise. That is the absolute minimum. If theres no leaks, shoes are adjusted properly, and you still have a soft pedal, you will probably need a new master cylinder. While you have the front drums off , now would be the time to buy new front wheel seals, and clean and repack the front wheel bearings.
trapster
Well-Known Member
Change all of the rubber brake lines also, and the proportioning valve if you go disks
cdnEHbody
Well-Known Member
Switching to factory discs is bbp i think, then your rear will have sbp, (small bolt pattern)
The 9 inch drums, when sorted are okay for small city traffic like i deal with daily, but after a motorcycle trip to california i wouldnt roll with them.
Ill probably do the scarebird kit on my car, i can keep my small bolt pattern, and it has a whole new front end which i dont want to rip out. The scarebird kit is almost all bolt on to stock spindles, need longer wheel studs though.
People hate on it, but for me and a slant six daily driver its an affordable alternative to get discs. Wreckers are empty here so the option of pulling used discs etc is not there.
The 9 inch drums, when sorted are okay for small city traffic like i deal with daily, but after a motorcycle trip to california i wouldnt roll with them.
Ill probably do the scarebird kit on my car, i can keep my small bolt pattern, and it has a whole new front end which i dont want to rip out. The scarebird kit is almost all bolt on to stock spindles, need longer wheel studs though.
People hate on it, but for me and a slant six daily driver its an affordable alternative to get discs. Wreckers are empty here so the option of pulling used discs etc is not there.
Duster Captain
Well-Known Member
Thats what I'm thinking. I will probably rebuilt the drums for the cost aspect.
I think your suggested plan looks good to me. Also, I have not done much brake stuff in the past, so does my master cylinder look ok from these pics?
Does that empty chamber indicate that the back brake system has leaked out?..
cdnEHbody
Well-Known Member
Thats the front reservior. Pull a front drum and lookey loo
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
If going discs both a shiny new kit, and a 73 up A body will put you into a larger bolt pattern. So does M body brakes for about the same or cheaper as A body brakes, but much easier to find these days. As a matter of fact M body usrs the same disc rotor as A body, and its spindles have a bit better geometry.
If i can recommend M body disc brakes. Get everything from the spindle out from a 1984 to 1989 fifth ave diplomat or fury. These come with larger 2.75" piston calipers. A body ones dont. You will have to also get A body 73 to 76 disc brake big ball joint upper control arms that use the K772 ball joint, A body disc brake flex hoses. 73 to 76 A body disc brake lower ball joints.
The mount bolts that attach the spindles to the lower ball joints you can get 4 grade 8 bolts and locking nuts (not nylon lock nuts) to attach M body spindles. I also recommend using the M body proportioning valve, and an M body master cylinder. You can buy an adaptor on ebay that converts your 4 bolt firewall attach point to 2 bolt for the late model master cylinder. The M body master cylinder is still SAE fittings, and there is a groove in its piston bore in the back to accept your original manual brake pushrod.
Fifth ave rims big bolt pattern wheels are a 15x7 steel wheel and can look really cool painted up with dog dish caps on them. My local boneyard sells em to me for $15 a piece without tires.
See below pix for master cylinder adaptor, and bolts needed to attach M body spindles
If i can recommend M body disc brakes. Get everything from the spindle out from a 1984 to 1989 fifth ave diplomat or fury. These come with larger 2.75" piston calipers. A body ones dont. You will have to also get A body 73 to 76 disc brake big ball joint upper control arms that use the K772 ball joint, A body disc brake flex hoses. 73 to 76 A body disc brake lower ball joints.
The mount bolts that attach the spindles to the lower ball joints you can get 4 grade 8 bolts and locking nuts (not nylon lock nuts) to attach M body spindles. I also recommend using the M body proportioning valve, and an M body master cylinder. You can buy an adaptor on ebay that converts your 4 bolt firewall attach point to 2 bolt for the late model master cylinder. The M body master cylinder is still SAE fittings, and there is a groove in its piston bore in the back to accept your original manual brake pushrod.
Fifth ave rims big bolt pattern wheels are a 15x7 steel wheel and can look really cool painted up with dog dish caps on them. My local boneyard sells em to me for $15 a piece without tires.
See below pix for master cylinder adaptor, and bolts needed to attach M body spindles
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moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
I am doing an M body swap on my kids 69 barracuda, and sourcing up all the parts. The M body spindle out setup i bought cost me $100. I had the A body upper arms, i will also be looking for a ford explorer sport trac rear end. Its got better gears. A locker, disc brakes, and same 4.50" diameter big bolt pattern as the mopar M body.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
The front chamber is for rear brakes, rear chamber is for front brakes. Its confusing, but the bigger part of the piston is in the back of the master to push more fluid for the front wheels.
The rust in the rear chamber isnt a good sign. And no fluid in the front chamber, I'd definitely pull the front drums and look for leaks. Opening and removing all 4 bleeders, and fitting an air blower tighly to the master cylinders fluid ports and blowing out all the old fluid will also make sure theres no junk in the lines or blockages.
Had a buddy of mine bought a 68 el camino that had been sitting 20 plus years, we blew out the lines this way. The bleeders we had to remove completely and clean out to make sure they were clear. They were packed with dirt. One rear side blew junk out with compressed air fed thru the master cylinder, but the other side was blocked. We put the bleeder back in on the side that was clear, and closed it, then hit it again w compressed air, and a plug o **** and old brake fluid shot out of the other clogged side. Once we got it all blown out and flushed, we bled the system and adjusted the shoes, and the car stopped pretty well.
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trapster
Well-Known Member
Be sure to check for brake leakage from Master inside your car also.
Duster Captain
Well-Known Member
I like the air flush idea. Question. Is this the fluid port I would flush?
Also, how would I flush them? Just hold a rubber air hose against them and blow?
So just look where the brake pedal pushes through the firewall and check for stains/leaks?
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Duster captain, where are you located? This will make it easier to figure out which things are best to source for your car. I'm in Abilene, so theres no shortage of old stuff in my junkyards to pick from. Guys from up north like cdnEHbody dont have access to this old stuff anymore which is the reason he is sourcing the scarebird kit. Personally i prefer to use factory stuff if its available. I dont regard M body stuff as old even though the last ones rolled off the line in 1989, probably because my wrecking yards still have plenty of them, and the rotors, wheel bearings, seals, brake pads and hardware kits are the same as 73-76 A body disc brake. Only things that are a bit different are the calipers. Caliper brackets and spindles, but it all works.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Yessir. Exactly where you check.
If you have an air compresser, and an air blower w a rubber tip, crank up the PSI on the compressor as high as it will go, remove all the bleeder screws, shove the rubber tip tightly into the port fwd hole and rear hole you have circled. you will need to do this in both chambers. Pack and hold a shop rag tightly shoved into the fluid chamber around it to help force all the air pressure through the lines. close your eyes or put safety glasses on, and pull the trigger.
All the old brake fluid, rust and crap will shoot out of the wheel cylinder end. If one side clears and the other side doesnt, put the bleeder back in on the side that clears and close it, the hit it again with the air pressure thru the lines, that will force the pressure to the other side to clean it out.
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moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
If you still have clogs, you can disconnect individual lines and blow them out this same way and in this way you can isolate and lines with a blockage. I reccommend using line wrenches so you dont strip the fittings out.
66Dvert
Working on my custom car parts again!
I was broke (still am and most likely will always be due to my hobby)
cheapest way is rebuild the drum brakes (but go to dual master for safety)
money wise, it's a tossup between 73-up and a conversion anymore.
next cheapest way is to piece it together for the disc brake upgrade. I did the scarebird brackets using the original 9" spindle and hub from the drums and had the autoparts get the rest piece by piece as money came in.
Yes ,you can stay small bolt pattern wheels if you get the rotors drilled at a machine shop (or use the supplied paper pattern, make copies for future use if you want to) my cost was 25.00 for both. that was using scarebirds brackets and auto store parts only, not their kit. my cost was easier to bear since it was piece by piece.
most of the other kits I have seen or used have a center register that can be a problem using you old wheels, there is supposed to be one kit that's a copy of the 73-up parts and a bolt on but I have not used it or seen it work on early A's yet.
here is my setup. yeah I had the hub drilled so that I could go large bolt pattern also but I rolled the car around on the small bolt pattern studs for a long time before re-drilling the front hubs to LBP.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Good looking kit. If you want to stay small bolt pattern, thats definitely the inexpensive way to go. If your wanting to eventually put some nice looking aftermarket wheels on it small bolt pattern is not the way to go as your choices are limited for the small bolt pattern. BTW DOT required dual chambered master cylinders, and a low brake pressure warning light to be standard equipment by 1967. Since his is a 72 he is pretty much set in that area.
I am looking at a complete running 1986 M body fifth ave parts car for $200. This is probably the best parts car deal next to buying a V8 A body parts car that you can buy if redoing an A body. It has a 318 V8, and an A999 variant of the A904 with a lock up converter. The M body radiator is a bolt in on 67-72 radiator supports, along with the fan and shroud. The disc brakes are a bolt in. It has an aluminum oil filter adaptor, the power steering box refits all the way back to 1967. 3 speed wiper motor fits A body And theres so much more you can mine out of one of these before parting out the remainder that you dont need on evilbay to make back some of your money spent to buy it, and scrapping whats left. I think M body spindles and discs also fit early A body.
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cdnEHbody
Well-Known Member
Did you have to install longer wheel studs?
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Did you blow all the lines out, and see what came out? If its real rusty, and you bleed everything and get a firm pedal but still have problem getting the brakes to grab, you will need to check the wheel cylinders too. Water settles below brake fluid, wheel cylinders being at the lowest point in the system, and they could be frozen from rust.
If you end up replacing all 4 wheel cylinders, the rubber lines and master cylinder, and you blow the lines out really good with compressed air and some varsol or mineral spirits, i'd recommend at this time putting in DOT 5 silicone brake fluid since it does not absorb moisture like DOT 3 does. Whatever you do do not EVER mix the 2 different brake fluids. Use only 1 or the other.
If you end up replacing all 4 wheel cylinders, the rubber lines and master cylinder, and you blow the lines out really good with compressed air and some varsol or mineral spirits, i'd recommend at this time putting in DOT 5 silicone brake fluid since it does not absorb moisture like DOT 3 does. Whatever you do do not EVER mix the 2 different brake fluids. Use only 1 or the other.
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moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Just checked rock auto. I dont know if you have 9" or 10" drums, but the wheel cylinders apparently are the same left and right in the back, but left right specific in the front. They are pretty dirt cheap about $3 to $5, the right front is about $14 though. The brake lines are pretty cheap at $7-$9 each. Master cylinder isnt cheap. Hopefully yours works.
If you dont have them, theres 3 brake tools you need for doing drum brakes. I got mine at sears long ago in the mid 1980s. You need a star wheel adjusting spoon, a spring cup remover/installer, and return spring remover/installer.
If you decide to do the brakes, shoes etc, pay close attention to location of all the hardware and which shoes out of the set have more lining on them. Its been a long while but i believe the leading shoes at each wheel have to have more lining on them than the trailing shoes at each wheel.
Also only pull apart one side at a time, so you can use the other side as a point of reference seeing where everything goes and how it fits together to put it all back together
Specialty drum brake tools below. A very cheap way to save you cuss words and skinned knuckles. The brake spring cup removal tool 3rd pic below, mine is made by lisle, and has a different sized cup on either end making it more versatile. I couldent find a pic of it online though.
If you dont have them, theres 3 brake tools you need for doing drum brakes. I got mine at sears long ago in the mid 1980s. You need a star wheel adjusting spoon, a spring cup remover/installer, and return spring remover/installer.
If you decide to do the brakes, shoes etc, pay close attention to location of all the hardware and which shoes out of the set have more lining on them. Its been a long while but i believe the leading shoes at each wheel have to have more lining on them than the trailing shoes at each wheel.
Also only pull apart one side at a time, so you can use the other side as a point of reference seeing where everything goes and how it fits together to put it all back together
Specialty drum brake tools below. A very cheap way to save you cuss words and skinned knuckles. The brake spring cup removal tool 3rd pic below, mine is made by lisle, and has a different sized cup on either end making it more versatile. I couldent find a pic of it online though.
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moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
You can also go to www.mymopar.com
They have the entire factory issue 1971 plymouth body service manual available for free download
And the entire factory issue 1972 plymouth chassis service manual available for free download.
The wiring differences between 71 and 72 are very minimal. If you have room on your computer for these FSMs i recommend downloading them, then you can print out copies of whatever you need to look at. The info is worth its weight in gold.
They have the entire factory issue 1971 plymouth body service manual available for free download
And the entire factory issue 1972 plymouth chassis service manual available for free download.
The wiring differences between 71 and 72 are very minimal. If you have room on your computer for these FSMs i recommend downloading them, then you can print out copies of whatever you need to look at. The info is worth its weight in gold.
cdnEHbody
Well-Known Member
Those tools really make the job easy peasy.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Theres other options on the manuals, however if your bucks down, you cannot beat free download. I was going to do that, then print each page, put them in clear sleeves and put it all into a 3" binder. I am more comfortable with paper manuals, and its easier for me flipping thru manuals than flipping the pages on a downloaded book. I figured the time spent to do this and put it all in order plus buy materials like all the sleeves and printer ink which isnt cheap, i'm better off just buying a new reprint of the FSM i need. I can still print pages out from mymopar that i will take in the shop and get dirty. My original FSMs i do not use other than to photo copy pages out of so the books dont get damaged or dirty.
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moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Where did you go duster captain, i hope we didnt scare you off with information overload
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