833 Advice Needed

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scary71

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Hey guys,
anybody care to offer some advice to 4 speed novice? I just finished my auto to 4 speed swap. Everything went A OK assembly, test drive, reverse 1st 2nd 3rd but when i get to 4th it will go in no problem and stay in but it sounds as if it's barely in and feels almost like it's slipping. This is an overdrive 4 from a truck if that has any bearing on the situation. any help or advice is always greatly appreciated. :sad1:
 
Please explain/define better what you mean by "sounds as if it's barely in and feels almost like it's slipping", are you saying that it feels like the clutch is slipping? What rear gear ratio are you running? Did you install a new clutch/pressure plate/flywheel? If you used a worn or old unknown condition pressure plate assembly, or if you have a rear main seal leaking oil then yes it is likely slipping, highway gears like 2.72's or 3.23's will make this much more obvious, where as 3.91's or 4.11's etc. tend to hide it a little more. Really need a better explanation of the troubles your having though to really try to help diagnois the problem.
 
Is your shifter adjusted properly so that it is going fully into 4th gear?
 
Yeah check to make sure youre getting into 4th gear all the way. Put it in 4th then unhook the linkage and see if the tab on the tranny slips into gear anymore. I would think if its not in all the way it would pop out or the syncs would be nashing tho.
 
krabysniper said:
Please explain/define better what you mean by "sounds as if it's barely in and feels almost like it's slipping", are you saying that it feels like the clutch is slipping? What rear gear ratio are you running? Did you install a new clutch/pressure plate/flywheel? If you used a worn or old unknown condition pressure plate assembly, or if you have a rear main seal leaking oil then yes it is likely slipping, highway gears like 2.72's or 3.23's will make this much more obvious, where as 3.91's or 4.11's etc. tend to hide it a little more. Really need a better explanation of the troubles your having though to really try to help diagnois the problem.
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Hey all,
Thanks for all the interest in my problem. I guess since I have a little more time I'll get you some background info. The clutch/pressure plate and flywheel assembly is all brand new. All of the linkage is brand new as are the wear items like bushings and springs.The drive shaft was cut, balanced and new u-joints installed just two weeks ago. I'm running a sad, sad 2.76 rear end. It is an 8 3/4 at least. Soon to be changed when the correct piece is located. The trans is a later model aluminum case o/d unit from a Dodge Truck :the shifter is a Hurst competition Plus. As I mentioned in my original post: reverse, first, second and third are all A OK in sound and operation. Nice positive feel and crisp engagement of the clutch with gobs of pull in these three gears. Now comes fourth... I've checked the tab itself and made sure it was engaged before test driving... no question about it. But while driving, when fourth is engaged it sounds noisy(not "i'm going to fall apart all over the street" noisy) but just a little noisy. Fourth; and only fourth feels like it's not engaging all the way into gear. This is not possible because i checked it under the car at the lever ten times! Also feels as if the car has absolutely no power. Is this because the o/d coupled with my rear end gears are giving me basically a final drive of 2.00 :1? Could the rear bearing be bad in the trans and only show in fourth? I'm puzzled! :sad1: :cussing:

This is my first adventure into 4 speed land so cut me some slack if i sound nuts OK? I am nuts but that's beside the point.
 
With your final drive ratio being what it is based on rear gear (compounded alot if your running a tall tire ie 27" or taller), I have to ask a few more questions, tire diameter? and at what speed are you placing it into overdrive? I am guessing the reason it feels like it is "powerless" is because you most likely are not in the power band for whatever engine your running (that would also help with diagnosis, engine size, mods, intake and carb combo, cam specs, etc) but it really does sound to me like your lugging the engine, which would cause a lilttle noisy in the tranny also ( I had a very simialar set-up in a 73 Satelite but with 3.23's, ran it in the quarter and only used 1st and second gear, 3rd was great up to 125/130 on open highway, then could shift to fourth and bring the rpms down to maintain that speed) I would suggest a change of ring gear to something more along the lines of a 3.91/4.11 range and it should work much better. What you have isn't really a 4 speed, it is a 3 speed with an overdrive gear ratio in place of what used to be 3 gear and a slight change to how the linkage attaches to cause 4th and 3rd shifter positions to switch around. It's a good combo when set-up correctly. But tire height (diameter) and rear gear are important and must place the rpms in the correct range for a given engine set-up.
 
I have the same tranny in my 68 Barracuda. One question I have for you did you cut off the boss on the front shifter mount or dent the torsion bar cross member for clearance?

On mine the tranny didn't touch when I mocked it up but driving down the road at certain speeds it would and that made all sorts of noises that drove me nuts for a couple of weeks before I tracked it down. I cut the boss off.

I have a stout 360 infront of mine with 3.55 gears out back. I seldom use 4th gear unless I am on the highway because of the lugging issue Krabysniper mentioned. These trannies are noisey if you start loading and unloading the gears.
 
OD (fourth) will be the noisiest gear in the trans (besides reverse), especially if the trans has a lot of miles. And, yes you are lugging it badly with the rear gears. I would also check for wear around the cluster gear pin. That will make for a noisy trans, too.
 
dgc333 said:
I have the same tranny in my 68 Barracuda. One question I have for you did you cut off the boss on the front shifter mount or dent the torsion bar cross member for clearance?

On mine the tranny didn't touch when I mocked it up but driving down the road at certain speeds it would and that made all sorts of noises that drove me nuts for a couple of weeks before I tracked it down. I cut the boss off.

I have a stout 360 infront of mine with 3.55 gears out back. I seldom use 4th gear unless I am on the highway because of the lugging issue Krabysniper mentioned. These trannies are noisey if you start loading and unloading the gears.
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Perhaps my trans is not out of a truck at all. Did the truck transmissions have 2 shifter mounting bosses? one forward and one rearward? Mine only has one mounting boss in the forward position. I'm sure it's an O/D trans, it has the 5.125 bearing retainer and the large 308 bearing behind it. So, in answer to your question, I had no modifications to perform.
thanks again for all your advice.
 
Well, it looks like you and dgc333 have discovered the achilles heel of the 833 OD aluminum case tranny. The noise you are hearing is excessive lash in the gears caused by wear in the countershaft bore in the case. The front end of the countershaft rides in a hole bored in the front of the tranny case (no bearing). This is sealed by that little freeze plug looking thing about 2" below the input shaft.
There are two ways to fix it. Find an iron case, any iron case, as long as it's an 833 4 speed and swap your gears, side cover, and tailshaft. Second option; send your aluminum case to Brewer's or Passon Performance and have them bore and sleeve the countershaft bore.
Don't worry too much about it though, you really don't need to have it fixed until it starts popping out of 3rd gear. That's the beauty of Mopars, they give you plenty of warning before something breaks, unlike some brands that shall remain unmentioned. BTW you really need at least a 3:55 rear gear to effectively use the OD tranny.
 
scary71 said:
Perhaps my trans is not out of a truck at all. Did the truck transmissions have 2 shifter mounting bosses? one forward and one rearward? Mine only has one mounting boss in the forward position. I'm sure it's an O/D trans, it has the 5.125 bearing retainer and the large 308 bearing behind it. So, in answer to your question, I had no modifications to perform.
thanks again for all your advice.
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All the truck and van A833OD trannies I have seen have two shifter bosses (I have heard that the rear one is not always drilled/tapped but all the ones I have seen are). Well if you have one out of a truck you would have had to have the drive shaft shortened about 3 3/8" and the front boss on the long tail shaft tranny is partially under the torsion bar cross member so there is no way to mount a shiftr to it. Plus to use the rear mount you have to custom fabricate a mounting plate to position the shifter forward so it come through the floor of an A-body in the proper place.
 
grumpuscreature said:
Well, it looks like you and dgc333 have discovered the achilles heel of the 833 OD aluminum case tranny. The noise you are hearing is excessive lash in the gears caused by wear in the countershaft bore in the case. The front end of the countershaft rides in a hole bored in the front of the tranny case (no bearing). This is sealed by that little freeze plug looking thing about 2" below the input shaft.
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I am aware of the case wear issue with the aluminum case A833OD. I don't believe mine has that issue at this time, mine is not any noiser than an iron case A833. These trannies in general are noiser than modern trannies. They even put gear oil in them to quite them down when new when folks complainted about gear rattle.
 
Hey Guys And Gals,
Thanks again for all the advice, tips and tricks for solving my tranny woes. I'm hoping to take it out this weekend for some road testing(weather permitting). It took awhile to sink in.... what was really happening when I shifted into fourth. I knew i was going to have to change the rear end, but again, the mechanics of what was going on did not dawn on me until you guys hit me over the head with it. I'll keep you posted after the road test to let you know how it all goes.
thanks,
scary71 :love4:
 
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