A727 Rebuild kits redux - Rebuild kits everywhere (62-70 vs 71+)

[AlV]

Hi FABO, As I plan for my first transmission rebuild (My 69's original A727) I've been contemplating which rebuild kit to go with... sounds easy but when one is not really familiar with all of the required pieces and the vast number of kit configurations on the market the selection can become daunting.

In preparation for the rebuild:
-I've scoured this website for related threads and reviewed the feedback posted by FABO's knowledgeable members.
-Watched the 727 rebuild Video posted on youtube 4 times to get a basic understanding and perform mental rebuilds as I followed along.
-Ordered the handbook and the DVD
-Took note of the suppliers from various posts
-Took note of the qualities of the Bands, friction plates, steels and things like bolt in sprags as described in the posts.
-Etc.

After going to supplier sites I notice that there are a wide range of rebuild kits with varying prices and parts (Bulkpart.com has rebuild kits and rebuild kits in a Box). There seems to be two basic setups, Kits for 62-70 and kits for 71 and above.

Which begs the following questions from (this overly analytic person),
How comprehensive should the kit be? (a good solid baseline)
What are the differences between the 2 generations of 727? (this seems like a pitfall)

I've established some criteria for my build:
1. 1969 A727 (62-70 generation kit)
2. This transmission kit will immediately back a 400HP engine (I would like to plan for growth and build for up to 500HP).
3. A comprehensive Rebuild kit ensuring all of the necessary and required bits and pieces are replaced or upgraded with quality parts.
4. The rebuild kit doesn't need to have a shift kit since I Will install a transgo- tf2 kit.
5. ??? (insert what I am missing here)

If you've made it this far in my post you're awesome (lol), Bottom line is I'm looking for your thoughts on a solid (comprehensive) rebuild kit for a 1969 A727 along with some recommendations of should do's.

Thanks!
AlV

 

[CudaChris67]

I don't know the answer, but I sure enjoyed reading your question! Good research!

 

[AlV]

Hi FABO,
I spent a little more time grinding through rebuild kits and websites to get a better understanding and selecting a kit (Beware my mental rambling).
I made the following assumptions:

1. All major hard parts in my case can be reused.
2. I'm focusing on consumables and should do's.
3. Looking at 62-70 A727 kits
4. Take advantage of having the case open.


Baseline
To help get my head around the configurations I began by randomly selecting Rebuilt kits in three levels stock, street, and HP street (my target build level) from various vendors to get a sense for which components seem to consistently show up in each kit respective to their level and then I omitted the components that didn't (I'll spare you the gory details). The short of it is that I broke out the components that will make up my overhaul into 3 categories:

- Baseline Kit
- Should do's
- Need (this bullet reflects damaged or worn components that were identified after opening the case that need to be replaced but didn't fall into one of the other two categories)

I decided to use the Cope Racing Transmissions catalog to illustrate and build the kit for my overhaul since they seem to have a good reputation and their catalog descriptions fit my format.

Components for the build

Baseline Kit
I used CRT’s 727 Rebuild Kit-Street High Performance 62-70 as my foundation because it covers most of the common components found in rebuild kits at this level. The kit includes:
“all seals, gaskets, o-rings, lip seals, sealing rings, 4 thick grooved Alto red eagle clutches for the front drum, 4 thin smooth Alto reds for the rear drum, 7 Kolean steel plates, filter and a teflon ring kit. Will work with high performance motors using automatic shift or manual valve body. This kit fits 1962-1970 727 torqueflight transmissions.”

Next I added the following components from CRTs catalog to the Rebuild Kit to finish the parts list:
Bands
727 Front Flex Band Red Lining
727 Low Reverse Band Red Lining
Bushing/Washers
727 Bushing -Master Kit 62-70
727 Washer -Master Kit

With the baseline addressed I moved on to should dos.
Should Do

Line fittings
727 & 904 Line Fittings - AN Fittings 1/4 pipe to -6
Neutral saftey switch
727-904 Neutral Switch Short
Shift Kit
TransGo FT-2 Race/Automatic kit 66& up 727-904
Lever
band lever (4.2)
SPRAG
727 Bolt-in-Sprag 1966-up

Conclusion
What I learned is that a rebuild kit is a baseline regardless of the supplier and that components vary somewhat. It’s important to choose quality components for the Kit and the supplemental parts. I never did find a Kit for 62-70 A727’s that also included the master bushing/washer and bands (the closest I got was at bulkparts.com but it was for a 71 and up 727). I guess putting a big kit as comprehensive as that together doesn’t make sense from a business perspective. Especially since each rebuild has to be taken on an individual basis. Oh and there is a subtle yet important difference between the 62-70 and 71 and up transmissions.

Still looking for your thoughts on the topic, Let know if missed anything

Thanks,

AlV


If you’re interested, below are the different levels of CRT rebuild kits for comparison

Rebuild Kits

727S-62UP
727 Rebuild Kit-Stock 62 & up
727 Rebuild Kit Stock. This complete rebuild kits comes with everything you need to rebuild your 727 torqueflight to stock. Includes all seals, gaskets, lip seals, o-rings, sealing rings, stock clutches, steel plates and filter. Fits 1962 & UP. Bands sold separate

727S-62-70
727 Rebuild Kit-Stock 62-70
727 Rebuild Kit Stock. This complete rebuild kits comes with everything you need to rebuild your 727 torqueflight to stock. Includes all seals, gaskets, lip seals, o-rings, sealing rings, stock clutches, steel plates and filter. Fits 1962-1970. Bands sold separate

727ST-62UP
727 Rebuild Kit-Street 62 & up
727 Rebuild Kit Street. Includes all seals, gaskets, o-rings, lip seals, sealing rings, Alto red eagle clutches, stock steel plates and filter. Will work best with motors just over stock using automatic shift valve body. This kit fits 1962 & up 727 torqueflight transmissions.

727ST-62-70
727 Rebuild Kit-Street 62-70
727 Rebuild Kit Street. Includes all seals, gaskets, o-rings, lip seals, sealing rings, Alto red eagle clutches, stock steel plates and filter. Will work best with motors just over stock using automatic shift valve body. This kit fits 1962-1970 727 torqueflight transmissions only.

727HP-62UP
727 Rebuild Kit-Street High Performance 62 & up
727 Rebuild Kit Street High Performance. Includes all seals, gaskets, o-rings, lip seals, sealing rings, 4 thick grooved Alto red eagle clutches for the front drum, 4 thin smooth Alto reds for the rear drum, 7 Kolean steel plates, filter and a teflon ring kit. Will work with high performance motors using automatic shift or manual valve body. This kit fits 1962 & up 727 torqueflight transmissions.

727HP-62-70
727 Rebuild Kit-Street High Performance 62-70
727 Rebuild Kit Street High Performance. Includes all seals, gaskets, o-rings, lip seals, sealing rings, 4 thick grooved Alto red eagle clutches for the front drum, 4 thin smooth Alto reds for the rear drum, 7 Kolean steel plates, filter and a teflon ring kit. Will work with high performance motors using automatic shift or manual valve body. This kit fits 1962-1970 727 torqueflight transmissions.

 

[70aarcuda]

http://www.northernautoparts.com/ProductModelDetail.cfm?ProductModelId=9099

this kit is for 60- and up 727...For 60-71 only you must have K12900E-4as well. Since the front servo changed around 71..

Gasket Kit
Sealing Ring Kit
Pump Seal
Extension Housing Seal
High/Reverse Friction
Smooth/Foward Friction
Front/Rear Steel
Large Dacron Filter
Front Flex Band
Washer Kit
Front Babbitt Bushing
Front Drum Bushing
Annulus Gear Bushing
Extension Housing Bushing
Reaction Bushing

Have used this kit several times along with their kits for 46RH, 42RH, and 46RE transmissions.

 

[TrailBeast]

You need to talk to Fishy68 (Tracy) as he does 727 rebuilds on a regular basis and knows the parts and suppliers.

You are definatly doing your homework, so congratulations on that.
Probably overthinking some of it, but better than not thinking about it at all.

 

[Bakerlite]

Hi, using the 4.2 lever is a good Idea. Unfortunately CRT is not the best value when it come to kits. The last parts I got for a 727 I had to get from 4 different suppliers.

 

[fishy68]

Basic differences, the 66-70 had a 1/2 wide reaction shaft bushing(the one that's pressed into the front clutch hub) and different reaction shaft accordingly. 71-up had a 1" wide bushing, much more stable and lasts longer. Due to more stability the reaction shaft sealing rings also last longer. 71 and up also had a revised seal in the front clutch that lasts longer and seals better. 71-up had part throttle kickdown. If it's a street car it's a nice feature because torqueflite's with a shift kit are notorious for the kickdown not working good enough. If your like me and like to manual shift most of the time it's no big deal. The part throttle kickdown is a part of the valve body. I've heard you can bolt a part throttle kickdown module to a non part throttle VB but tried on one and it wouldn't fit. There are some variance in valve bodies so maybe you can on some but not others?? Again this is just a creature comfort item, not at all necessary.

BTW: To upgrade your trans. to a 71-up style all you have to do is swap in the front clutch drum and reaction shaft from a 71-73 model. Make sure you get a drum that holds 4 clutch discs, some only held 3. If you decide to upgrade to the newer stuff any later than 73 and parts interchange is hit or miss as they revised the rear clutch drum a few times and it may interfere with the reaction shaft. You could always swap out the rear drum assy. as well if you have the money. I do this on all serious high perf. applications but lower hp daily drivers I don't worry about.

The kit your looking at at CRT is a great kit but at 500 hp upgraded frictions aren't a must. I've used the kit Tony recommended and up to about 550 hp their good enough IMO, plus their more affordable.

Unless you get it for the same price there's no need to upgrade the rear band as it's not a shifting band, just a holding band. Since your going with a flex band up front I'd use a 3.8 lever. I use a 4.2 lever with solid bands only. If your using a high stall converter (2800 stall or above) another mod I do is to put a blocker rod under the accumulator. Firms up the 1-2 shift and reduces 2-3 shift overlap. Use 12 new springs in the front clutch pack. Yours may already have 12 but they loose they stiffness over time so need replaced.

Change out the rear servo to a billet piece as the factory piece is a common failure piece when a shift kit is installed.

Make sure you get a good Dacron type filter.

Get a set of planetary shims to take out the excessive play in the planetary gear set. You usually have to buy a pack of 10 and it only takes 1 or 2 but their cheap and a great upgrade. Set your rear clutch pack clearance to .040-.045". Set the front clutch to .055-.075 "clearance. Set the total end play to .020" or as close as you can get it to that.

I also drill a small diameter hole in the case to provide direct oiling to the Sprague. It's rather hard to describe easy but it's in Munroe's "727 the performance transmission" book. Running late right now but when I get home this eve. I'll scan the page in that shows it and attach it to this post.

 

[transman]

Hi FABO, As I plan for my first transmission rebuild (My 69's original A727) I've been contemplating which rebuild kit to go with... sounds easy but when one is not really familiar with all of the required pieces and the vast number of kit configurations on the market the selection can become daunting.

In preparation for the rebuild:
-I've scoured this website for related threads and reviewed the feedback posted by FABO's knowledgeable members.
-Watched the 727 rebuild Video posted on youtube 4 times to get a basic understanding and perform mental rebuilds as I followed along.
-Ordered the handbook and the DVD
-Took note of the suppliers from various posts
-Took note of the qualities of the Bands, friction plates, steels and things like bolt in sprags as described in the posts.
-Etc.

After going to supplier sites I notice that there are a wide range of rebuild kits with varying prices and parts (Bulkpart.com has rebuild kits and rebuild kits in a Box). There seems to be two basic setups, Kits for 62-70 and kits for 71 and above.

Which begs the following questions from (this overly analytic person),
How comprehensive should the kit be? (a good solid baseline)
What are the differences between the 2 generations of 727? (this seems like a pitfall)

I've established some criteria for my build:
1. 1969 A727 (62-70 generation kit)
2. This transmission kit will immediately back a 400HP engine (I would like to plan for growth and build for up to 500HP).
3. A comprehensive Rebuild kit ensuring all of the necessary and required bits and pieces are replaced or upgraded with quality parts.
4. The rebuild kit doesn't need to have a shift kit since I Will install a transgo- tf2 kit.
5. ??? (insert what I am missing here)

If you've made it this far in my post you're awesome (lol), Bottom line is I'm looking for your thoughts on a solid (comprehensive) rebuild kit for a 1969 A727 along with some recommendations of should do's.

Thanks!
AlV

All kits you look at are re-packs. No matter who you buy them from, someone has purchased bulk friction plates,bulk steel plates and bulk gasket sets. They just then put them in their own packaging.

They will come with either Borg Warner or Raybestos plates. Alto friction plates are also available. Raybesto plates at one time were OEM with Chrysler. There are only 3 gasket set manufacturers in the U.S.A. Bands typically will be from Borg Warner or Raybestos, or in the case of the hard backed bands(the front band) relined units.

You haven't really said what you're going to do with the car. If it's going to be mainly a street vehicle, then build it as the factory did, as they seemed to have done a heck of a good job. If you're going to go drag racing, then that opens up a whole other area.

A quality rebuild should include the replacement of all bushings and washers, and inspect the rear bearing closely. Replace the sprag springs and rollers, and if you're going to beat on it, go with the HD bolt in sparg. Check the pump gears for wear. Always replace the front band, and check the rear band closely. If the bands are burnt , then the drums should be machined. I'm not a fan of shimming the planetaries. This is a band-aid approach. What you want to check on the planetaries is side to side motion on the gears against the pins as well as the up and down movement of the gears. If there's a lot of side to side movement, then shimming the gears is a waste of time, as the pins are worn out.
Lots to consider, have fun and BUILD IT RIGHT ONCE, AND DON'T LET PRICE BE YOUR ONLY GUIDE.

 

[AlV]

You all are awesome! Thanks for the feedback everyone it is much appreciated. There are very knowledgeable, insightful and helpful folks on FABO. I wrote on my Welcome wagon post that I was new to Mopar and FABO…it’s been a great experience so far.


70aarcuda (Tony) – I noticed that you’ve recommended the transstar package on othere threads and it seems like your go to kit. I’ll keep that in mind while as I consider the final rebuild package. Oh, is the part ref. K12900E-4 a servo spring? It wasn’t clear to me on the Northern site. Thanks!


TrailBeast - Thanks. You’re right I am probably over thinking some of it. Lol I’m being very cautions to understand since it’s my first trans build and there are a lot more pieces in a 727 than the clutches on MCs. I don’t mind the research it’s a great learning experience which hopefully means I’ll get it right on the first shot. Thank you.


Bakerlite – Thanks for your input. Which suppliers did you end using for parts?

Fishy68 (Tracy) – Nice information and recommendations thank you. You’ve given me a lot to chew on…. I’m going to look over your reply a few times and let it soak in before I follow up. btw, I did order the 727 handbook and the DVD for review and reference. I’ll see where that hole in the case is supposed to go. Much Obliged!


Transman – Thanks for the detail on the manufacturer/wholesaler relationship! It’s not a surprise this stuff is repacked but good to know who the manufacturers are which will come in handy in $. My build is mainly for the street and the transmission will immediately back a 400HP engine and I would like to plan for growth and build for up to 500HP. Thanks for the rebuild breakdown, tips and pointers Nice info.. I’ll digest the info and follow up.

 

[transman]

If you're going for more HP, then you might want to consider using the High Engery front band and the HIGH ENERGY friction plates as used in the A518 transmission (727 with an Overdrive). These plates are the same thickness as the normal plates found in a 727, and you use the stock steel plates.

Alto red plates are a good choice if you're going drag racing a lot, and if you go this route, be sure and use the Kolene (black) steel plates. I've had guys tell me though that this combination wasn't the best for a car driven mainly on the street.

Have fun.

 

[fishy68]

I'm not a fan of shimming the planetaries. This is a band-aid approach. What you want to check on the planetaries is side to side motion on the gears against the pins as well as the up and down movement of the gears. If there's a lot of side to side movement, then shimming the gears is a waste of time, as the pins are worn out.

Just to clarify things, when I said shim up the planetaries I referred to the planetary gear set total end play, not the planetary gear sets themselves. The shim(s) go between the sun gear drive shell and rear planetary set. The factory serv. manual shows checking the gear train end play but never said anything about reducing it. There's no need having the gear sets slapping back and forth excessively.

I am not a fan of shimming the actual planetary gear sets either because like you said if their loose their worn out and shimming isn't the correct approach.

 

[fishy68]

I was in a hurry this am when I posted and forgot to mention checking the pump and gears very closely. Sometimes you get lucky and everything is ok. Sometimes just a set of gears will suffice. Sometimes the pump is scored and grooved so you have to replace it all.

BTW: since you said you have Munroe's book you'll read a lot of what was mentioned here. The only thing I found issue with is he recommends pretty tight clutch pack clearances. For a race only trans it's ok but I've found if you set the rear clutch pack to .035" clearance like he recommends it may want to creep in neutral for a couple thousand miles before the plates wear enough they don't do it anymore. IMO why set it so tight so the plates have to wear down before it works right?? Yrs. ago when I first bought his book I did 2 transmissions back to back with those tight clearances and both creeped in neutral. I also go a little looser on the front clutch pack. 727's are bad on 2-3 shift overlap and the looser clearance helps a little. Other than that all his information is spot on.

 

[transman]

Just to clarify things, when I said shim up the planetaries I referred to the planetary gear set total end play, not the planetary gear sets themselves. The shim(s) go between the sun gear drive shell and rear planetary set. The factory serv. manual shows checking the gear train end play but never said anything about reducing it. There's no need having the gear sets slapping back and forth excessively.

I am not a fan of shimming the actual planetary gear sets either because like you said if their loose their worn out and shimming isn't the correct approach.

My bad. I thought you were talking about using QuickShims for the planetary gear sets. You're right on the money with the other shims.

transman

 

[fishy68]

My bad. I thought you were talking about using QuickShims for the planetary gear sets. You're right on the money with the other shims.

transman

No prob bud. I figured that's what you thought I was talking about

 

[AlV]

Hi FABO,
Thanks for a great thread. Here’s a follow up…

After reviewing the information in the responses I received, reading through Munroe's TF A-727 Handbook, consulting my engine builder and searching several retail sites (Bakerlite was right I went to 3 vendors) this is what I ended up doing.

Keep in mind that this is my first attempt at overhauling transmission and I'm relying completely on the feedback I received and the 727 handbook/DVD. Taking the advice and recommendations from Tony (70aarcuda), Tracy (Fishy68) and Transman, resulted in the following.

Parts:

· Transtar super deluxe Kit for TF8 (62-up) Gasket Kit, Sealing Ring Kit, Pump Seal, Extension Housing Seal, High/Reverse Friction, Smooth/Foward Friction, Front/Rear Steel, Large Dacron Filter, Front Flex Band, Washer Kit, Front Babbitt Bushing, Front Drum Bushing, Annulus Gear Bushing, Extension Housing Bushing, Reaction Bushing
· Billet Rear servo piston
· 3.8 Ratio kick down lever (using a flex band)
· Front Clutch springs
· Accumulator blocker rod (using 2800 stall converter)
· Bolt-in overrunning assembly (sprag)
· Bushing Kit (unused goes into inventory)
· Washer and shim Kit (unused goes into inventory)
· Transgo-tf2 shift kit
· Magnetic drain plug kit
· Neutral safety switch
· Line fittings

Spec’s:

1. Set your rear clutch pack clearance to .040-.045".
2. Set the front clutch to .055-.075 "clearance.
3. Set the total end play to .020" or as close as you can get it to that.

Pit fall:

1. I've found if you set the rear clutch pack to .035" clearance like the Handbook recommends it may want to creep in neutral for a couple thousand miles before the plates wear enough they don't do it anymore.
2. Go a little looser on the front clutch pack. 727's are bad on 2-3 shift overlap and the looser clearance helps a little.

Approach :

Replacement of all bushings and washers, and inspect the rear bearing closely. Replace the sprag springs and rollers, and if you're going to beat on it, go with the HD bolt in sparg. Check the pump gears for wear. Always replace the front band, and check the rear band closely. If the bands are burnt , then the drums should be machined.

What you want to check on the planetaries is side to side motion on the gears against the pins as well as the up and down movement of the gears. If there's a lot of side to side movement, then shimming the gears is a waste of time, as the pins are worn out.

Note - Alto red plates are a good choice if you're going drag racing a lot, and if you go this route, be sure and use the Kolene (black) steel plates. I've had guys tell me though that this combination wasn't the best for a car driven mainly on the street.

I probably went a bit heavy but since I’m cutting my teeth on this I’m trying to cover all of my bases. I’ll let you know how it turns out.

Thank you for the help!

AlV

 

[Bakerlite]

I got parts from TSR, A&A, Murphy's , Summit ( shift kit) and another guy that does billet rear servos.
I'm doing a 904 at the moment and it looks like I'll be going to 3 different vendors this time as well.

Also a note, you don't need the blocker rod with the Transgo TF-2 kit.

 

[AlV]

Hi FABO,
Well the rebuild is progressing well, even if it is slow (mostly because I'm really taking my time to understand everything).
As a follow up I thought it be cool to provide an update.

Some points before I begin.
* The Video and handbook are valuable resources (a must have for any beginner).
* FABO members are very knowledgeable and have provided very solid advice

Once I had a handle on the parts, I sourced them from different vendors take a look at post 15 for the parts list:

Northern auto parts (http://www.northernautoparts.com) for the Deluxe rebuild kit by Transtar. When the Kit arrived I noticed the package read for 71 and up. I called the good folks at Northern and they said I was good to go with the 71 and up kit. I expressed my apprehension and they said that they would check on my concern and get back to me. While I was waiting for Northern to call back with an update I pulled up the Transtar website and when through the catalog. While on the website I found the number for their location in Edison NJ which is just 10 minutes from my work. I made a call to the Edison location and spoke with a nice guy there who explained that Transtar does not produce the 62-70 kit any longer and he suggested that I purchase the supplemental Kit containing the 62-up things I'll need. About 10 minutes after I wrapped up with Transtar Northern called back and said the same thing, they explained that is why the site indicate I need to purches the "K22950E-4" sub kit. All was good. So if you buy that kit keep in mind that you'll need to purchase the sub kit to if you are working on a 62-70 transmission.

TSR (https://www.tsr-racing.com) for basically everything else except the shift Kit.

Summit Racing (http://www.summitracing.com/) for the Transgo TF2 Shift Kit

I removed the tail shaft housing and noticed it looked good.

IT wasn't until I pulled the oil pan that I saw the pepto bismal... I don't know how long this trans sat out of the car but it looked like someone did a lot of work then let it sit.

Taking the assemblies out of the case went smooth (slide hammers are key).

This is when it started to get interesting and more expensive. As I disassembled the trans I noticed that there seemed to be a lot of new parts as if it was overhauled run for a short while then pulled and set aside. As I removed the Valve body the first thing I noticed was that the Accumulator spring was missing and the piston was free to slam up and down in the port. I also noticed that the Apply (Kick down) servo was not complete either. So Now it hits me that this trans was prep'ed for full manual Race application and I need to bring it back to Street Auto. I can't wait to look at the valve body but I think I know what to expect.

The Apply servo is missing the Piston and the outer spring (I picked up a new setup from (Pat Blais)

The Low/revers servo was left absolutely stock.

I removed the Overrun Bearing (Sprag) to replace it with a bolt in unit.

Disassembled the front clutch and notice that the frictions and steels looked barley used. Many folks have told me to replace them anyway since they've been sitting in water and well let's face it I didn't tear this down for nothing. This clutch was set up with the 340 spec 6 springs. I'll be upgrading to 12.

Moved on to the forward clutch and yess the material there looked the same as the front did and the bands for that matter. "shakes head"

I drilled a 1/8 hole through the case on the oil return port as described in Munroe's handbook to provide additional lubrication to the bolt in overrun sprag.

With the lubrication hole drilled and the metal shavings cleaned out I installed the bolt in overrun unit. I used the bolts to line it up and start it into the boss then finishing with a press. (A press isn't required but it sure makes it easier)

With the Overrun installed I reassembled (with all the new stuff) the pump, front clutch, forward clutch then did a [ame="http://s953.photobucket.com/user/alv1970/media/2013-09-03112844_zps7a9702e8.mp4.html"]2013-09-03112844_zps7a9702e8.mp4 Video by alv1970 | Photobucket@@AMEPARAM@@http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae16/alv1970/bth_2013-09-03112844_zps7a9702e8.mp4@@AMEPARAM@@953.photobucket.com/albums/ae16/alv1970/bth_2013-09-03112844_zps7a9702e8.mp4[/ame].

Here I wrap up the planetary, reassemble the drive line in the case along with the servos, then head on to the Valve Body. BTW I picked up an unmolested OEM 69 valve body (also from Pat Blais) which I'll use to install the Transgo kit.

Servos.. this is when I started using parts from the Transgo tf2 kit. The front servo goes in as it came out complete with 2 springs, piston, rod and retainer, except it has been cleaned, inspected and has new rings.

Rear Lo/rev servo is uppdate with transgo pieces.

Transgo restriction plug installed

New front band apply lever

Planet is set up and ready to go in...

The output shaft support was pretty well worn in by the lower ring seal of the governor so I ordered a new one from Whatever It Takes Transmission [WIT] (https://www.wittrans.com) It's not a big deal if you are setting up for full manual but since I am returning to auto and I have it apart why not replace it.

Low/Rev drum, band and planet installed in the case.

Next the Governor and bearing

Next the input shaft assembly (front and rear clutch packs)

Time to dry fit the pump and take total end play measurements

I'm stoked with this measurement

with a good read on the dial I put pump in with the new seals along with the tail housing then made the adjustments to both bands.

Next stop... valve body.

I hope to have a nice street setup when I'm done and I'm praying it all works and I didn't do something stupid! LOL

 

[fishy68]

Looking good (except the pepto).

BTW: the front servo piston isn't missing, it's down in the case. I see it in the 5th picture. Even if it's a full manual valve body it's a needed part as it has to apply the front band for 2nd gear. That's the old style servo which is the better of the 2 IMO. You'll need to find a large outer spring for it but that's it.

As for the accumulator spring, it depends on the application if I install one or not. (I may have said this earlier, sorry if I'm repetitive). If your running a high stall converter of 2500 or higher you can block the accumulator for a firmer 1-2 shift if so desired, just cut a 2-15/16" long 5/16"~3/8" diameter rod and put under the accumulator to hold it still. If your running a low stall converter put a spring it cause the accumulator also cushions the application when you drop it in gear. Without it it'll hit pretty hard when you drop it in gear with a low stall converter.

 

[AlV]

Thanks Tracy!
You were spot on I just pulled it out.
Wow, I feel dumb... lol! I looked at that a few times and just thought it was the bottom of the well. It didn't even occur to me that was the piston down there (I don't know why). haha. I'm guessing that removing the larger outer spring softened the resistance on the servo was some sort of trick used to affect the apply (KD) to give it a firmer feel. What do you think?

I've already procured a 45# large spring and a 20# small spring ( the small spring that was already in the servo was weighted at 45#).

Is there a preferred spring combination for the servo? For example is it better to install both 45# outer and inner springs, or does using the 45# outer/ 20# inner spring combo make more sense?

 

[fishy68]

No problem. I overlooked the first one I did too. To be honest I have never tested the spring's tension. In stock form I believe that most all had 2 springs. You'll notice the TF-2 shift kit says to use a different amount of springs depending on which servo apply lever ratio you us. I believe from 4.2 up they say only use the inner spring. I've found you should put it in even in spite of what they say cause you can get 2-3 overlap if you don't. What lever do you plan on using? I never use anything more than 4.2 and prefer 3.8

 

[AlV]

For this set up I chose the 3.8 ratio apply lever.
Keep in mind that I doubled the number of springs in the front clutch and the line pressure will be adjusted per the transgo specification

Ideally, I'd like to be able to get all of the hard parts set, so I can fine tune while the trans is in the car. I'm not even sure that it's possible to do so but I really don't wan't to take the trans out again, unless I have to lol

 

[fishy68]

You'll be good with that combo. As for tuning, you can do most anything without dropping it back out, but I bet you'll be happy with how your setting it up now.

 

[AlV]

Well I've done it... My first build is in the books. Thanks for all of your advice and help!

One last question regarding the accumulator Blocker rod... I'm wondering if I should, or should not use it with the transgo tf2 kit. What do you think?

Food for thought please review the details of my final build:

My trans is set to the following spec:
1. Rear clutch pack clearance is .040
2. Front clutch clearance is .045
3. Planetary play is .025
4. Total end play clearance is .024
5. Front clutch pack increased from the 6 springs to 12
6. Front (KD) servo using both spring 45# inner/45#outer ( I have a 20# inner in inventory that can be switched in later)
7. L/R servo has the Transgo Spring and bush
8. Transgo restriction cup installed
9. Rear band adjusted to 3/8" of travel
10. Front band adjusted with small wrench to Snug then backed out 2.5 turns

Transgo TF2 setup.

Part 1:
A. Triangle did not drill
B. 1-2 shift did not drill (ball left out)
C. 2-3 shift drilled to .156 or 5/32
D. drilled to .234 0r 15/64

Part 2:
1. Re designed Manual Valve installed
2. Filed Notch halfway through manual bore
3. Drilled passage wall to increase fluid flow
4. Grind TV stem to .281 or 9/32 added yellow spring
5. Installed new shim and spring seat on PR valve, also added the new inner and outer Orange spring.
6. set PR adjustment flush against the inside edge of the spring retainer.
7. Installed new L/R Spring
8. Installed 2-3 restrictor cup


Split the Valve Body

Remove separator plate and Drill.

The valve body sandwich

Working on the Top half

Before Transgo Mods

After Transgo Mods

Updated Manual valve, springs and TV grind.

Now I’m ready to button it up after that last hit with the Parts cleaner and compressed air.

All done and tucked away

Have a spare Stock 69 Valve Body cleaned and ready to restore back to OEM spec.

Thanks again everyone!
AlV

 

[VOETOM]

AIV, I think you really need about 0.088" clearance in the front drum. 0.045" may be too tight and may bind/slam under light throttle and/or wot shifts. Even with 12 springs in the drum, I'd be tempted to loosen it up. You are doing a great documentation job for sure.
Thanks!
Tom

 

[AlV]

Hi Tom, Yes I went back and forth on the setting but in the end I am within the spec even if it is a little on the tight side. I'm hoping that by doubling the springs from 6 to 12 and using the restrictor in the port to slow the apply pressure I can manage. I really wanted to get to .055, nothing left to do but put it in and see what it does
AlV