A833 assembly tricks

[ChargerST]

Here are two assembly tricks for a 4-speed transmission I came up with (haven't seen these before):

The most cumbersome job (at least for me) when assembling an A833 is to mate the main shaft assembly with the main case. The loaded main shaft (I know I know ;) ) is quite heavy and since you have to do several things at the same time when lowering the shaft (guide it into the input shaft, move the synchro sleeves around the gears, align the speed gears with the counter shaft teeth), while paying attention not to drop the 3-4 synchro sleeve and let the synchro keys fly off the synchro hub, this task can cause a lot of frustration.

So in order to make things a little easier (especially when you don't have a helper or only one that is useless) I used electrical tape to hold the keys in the synchro hub and prevent the sleeve from dropping. Once the snychro sleeve is a little past 3rd gear on the cluster gear (that is the reason why you have to move the sleeve forward - otherwise you can't guide the main shaft into the input shaft) you can remove the tape. Push the synchro towards the rear when removing the tape - once it is off the sleeve should slide all the way back.

And one more thing: use studs/bolts and nuts to hold up the tail housing and main shaft. You can now slowly lower the shaft by turning the nuts (or hold the nuts and turn the studs/bolts if you use smaller ones than the thread in the main case - actually easier as you have better access to the bolt heads than the nuts - I used M8 studs) which makes it way easier to align everything and have things under control. When you are almost all the way down (1/2" to go) insert some sort of spacer (wooden board etc.) into the gap. Lower the tail housing some more until it firmly rests on the spacers. Now remove the studs and nuts and then take out the spacers - the tail housing should now slide in the remaining distance.

btw. if your shifter mounting plate is already attached to the tail housing (I left mine on as I couldn't get the bolts out) already drop the bolt (that holds the tail housing to the main housing) in the bolt hole. Otherwise it can be a challenge to get it in (I did manage to do it but took some time).

 

[Oldmanmopar]

I put the input on the main shaft and install it one piece bolt the tail shaft fast. Then put the front bearing in the oven at a certain temp and slip it on the input shaft .

Hold the input with a tool to tap the bearing in the case. It will slip on the shaft easy but be snug in the case until cool. install the small input snap ring without the outer ring so it seats on the input shaft. Then pull it out a tad and install the bearing retainer ring. Done.

What temp for the bearing ? I would have to ask my son he handles the heating. Just did Two Members this month Todds 23 spline and Waynes 18 spline. I buy everything from Dan @ Brewers Transmission

I have some Liberty crash boxes to do .Notice no syncos and shift shafts have no o-ring seals also 3/8 lever attachment threads . Orange box is out of well known Hemi drag car.

 

[AJ/FormS]

It shouldn't take more than a few seconds to drop that tail in there. I think you are doin' it the hard way.

Here's how I do it;
I leave the loaded cluster in the bottom, with no pin in it.
Leave the front retainer off and push the input gear down as far as it goes, into the hole in my bench that is there just for this purpose.
Install a spare yoke in the tail, to make it easy to turn it.
Orient the your loaded tail upside down to the main case and drop her straight down, turning the M/S to engage the 4th gear struts in the brass .
Orient the tail such that the pinhole is fully accessible
Pull the cluster back into alignment, and install the pin
Raise the tail slightly to not tear the gasket, and rotate it into proper alignment
Install 2 bolts finger tight.
Lay the trans on it it's side. make sure the 4th gear brass is indexed, then push the input gear into the case.
Install the retainer and finish up.

Note-1
sometimes the cluster pin will not pass by the upside down tail. I always test fit the empty tail to the empty case prior, and clearance the tail as may be required.
Note-2
Be careful not to drop the 3-4 slider; it's a PITA to re install it; I always spread ALL the strut springs before assy,which seems to make enough friction, that for me this is not a thing....... anymore.
note-3
As the output shaft enters the input, and the loaded tail comes down, the struts have to be aligned with the cut-outs in the brass before the tail lands. For me, I am strong enough to do this simultaneously. You may wish to install 1/8 inch spacers on the back of the case prior and land the tail on those, then go align the input, then spit the shims out.
Note-4
Some guys load a mock pin into the cluster in an attempt to not allow the needle-rollers to fall out. Well yeah, if yur using Vasoline I guess, lol. But I use a light wheel-bearing grease so have never in hundreds and hundreds of assemblies, ever had a roller go AWOL. Same grease is used in the input.
That's how I do it.

Now;
did you deglaze the cones?
Prefit each brass ring and make sure they bite?
repoint the clutching teeth?
Back-cut the clutch teeth as may be required?
Reset the cluster end-play?
Verify the fork travel and the reverse lock-out, and make sure that it is impossible to engage more than one forward gear at a time?
Additionally;
The A833 suffers from the nuts coming loose on the external shift levers. When this happens, the lever-slot to internal-lever interface takes a ****-kicking, and they get sloppy. Once sloppy it will be impossible to keep it from happening over and over. Loc-titing the nuts is NOT the complete answer.
What you need to do is loc-tite the interface. But you gotta do it in a way that will not allow the loc-tite to migrate into the cover between it and the pin.
So before the cover goes on, I pop the internal levers out and grease the tubes, reinstall the levers, then go clean up the pushed-out lube from the outsides. Next clean everything that is to be loc-tited.
Next install the external levers in their correct orientations, onto the studs.
Next fill the interfaces with loc-tite (I use Blue), and loc-tite the nuts, and torque 'em up. Wipe off the excess, invert the cover, and walk away. Come back every several minutes and verify that you can still shift it, proving that the loc-tite has Not, by capillary action, gone up the stud into the cover. I panicked one time when using Loc-tite Red; but a lil more force broke it free. I switched to blue after that. No more problems.
With the levers now immobilized, your Neutral gate will stay where you put it, for years, perhaps decades.
Do the same thing with the shifter adapter-plate at the back; blue loc-tite the three conical-head bolts. But you may wish to do this after the trans is up in the tunnel. Your choice.

 

[ChargerST]

It shouldn't take more than a few seconds to drop that tail in there. I think you are doin' it the hard way.

Here's how I do it;
I leave the loaded cluster in the bottom, with no pin in it.
Leave the front retainer off and push the input gear down as far as it goes, into the hole in my bench that is there just for this purpose.
Install a spare yoke in the tail, to make it easy to turn it.
Orient the your loaded tail upside down to the main case and drop her straight down, turning the M/S to engage the 4th gear struts in the brass .
Orient the tail such that the pinhole is fully accessible
Pull the cluster back into alignment, and install the pin
Raise the tail slightly to not tear the gasket, and rotate it into proper alignment
Install 2 bolts finger tight.
Lay the trans on it it's side. make sure the 4th gear brass is indexed, then push the input gear into the case.
Install the retainer and finish up.

I actually remembered your technique before I started but the cluster pin didn't clear and since I had everything painted I went ahead and did it the "book" (= Passon A833 book) way.

Note-1
sometimes the cluster pin will not pass by the upside down tail. I always test fit the empty tail to the empty case prior, and clearance the tail as may be required.
Note-2
Be careful not to drop the 3-4 slider; it's a PITA to re install it; I always spread ALL the strut springs before assy,which seems to make enough friction, that for me this is not a thing....... anymore.
note-3
As the output shaft enters the input, and the loaded tail comes down, the struts have to be aligned with the cut-outs in the brass before the tail lands. For me, I am strong enough to do this simultaneously. You may wish to install 1/8 inch spacers on the back of the case prior and land the tail on those, then go align the input, then spit the shims out.
Note-4
Some guys load a mock pin into the cluster in an attempt to not allow the needle-rollers to fall out. Well yeah, if yur using Vasoline I guess, lol. But I use a light wheel-bearing grease so have never in hundreds and hundreds of assemblies, ever had a roller go AWOL. Same grease is used in the input.
That's how I do it.

good tips! on note 4: I used Vaseline and it is actually quite sticky! I did use a mock pin (which came out easily) but getting the cluster pin in the last 1/4" was really tough. I did seal the front hole with silicone to avoid any leaks there.

Now;
did you deglaze the cones?

Yes, I even biased them (2-4 for upshift, 1st for downshift) - thanks for the tip!

Prefit each brass ring and make sure they bite?

Yes

repoint the clutching teeth? Back-cut the clutch teeth as may be required?

Yes but was hardly necessary. The gear set was a low mileage set

Reset the cluster end-play?

This I didn't do. I couldn't feel much play at all so I deemed it ok.

Verify the fork travel and the reverse lock-out, and make sure that it is impossible to engage more than one forward gear at a time?

haven't done that (cover is still on the bench) - now how to do that properly?

Additionally;
The A833 suffers from the nuts coming loose on the external shift levers. When this happens, the lever-slot to internal-lever interface takes a ****-kicking, and they get sloppy. Once sloppy it will be impossible to keep it from happening over and over. Loc-titing the nuts is NOT the complete answer.
What you need to do is loc-tite the interface. But you gotta do it in a way that will not allow the loc-tite to migrate into the cover between it and the pin.
So before the cover goes on, I pop the internal levers out and grease the tubes, reinstall the levers, then go clean up the pushed-out lube from the outsides. Next clean everything that is to be loc-tited.
Next install the external levers in their correct orientations, onto the studs.
Next fill the interfaces with loc-tite (I use Blue), and loc-tite the nuts, and torque 'em up. Wipe off the excess, invert the cover, and walk away. Come back every several minutes and verify that you can still shift it, proving that the loc-tite has Not, by capillary action, gone up the stud into the cover. I panicked one time when using Loc-tite Red; but a lil more force broke it free. I switched to blue after that. No more problems.
With the levers now immobilized, your Neutral gate will stay where you put it, for years, perhaps decades.
Do the same thing with the shifter adapter-plate at the back; blue loc-tite the three conical-head bolts. But you may wish to do this after the trans is up in the tunnel. Your choice.

Great tip on the loc-tite! The adapter plate was apparently glued to the transmission by a previous owner. No matter what I did (heat, leverage) I couldn't get it off - the bolts started to get deformed so I stopped.

 

[ChargerST]

I have some crash boxes to do .Notice no syncos and shift shafts have no o-ring seals also 3/8 lever attachment threads . Orange box is out of well known Hemi drag car.

How do you convert the shift shafts to 3/8 threads?

 

[Oldmanmopar]

How do you convert the shift shafts to 3/8 threads?

We didn't They are transmissions that were made with them and also no synchronizers. These are "Liberty crash boxes" You shift them full throttle without the clutch. Sox & Martin used these in all their cars. I have two we will use in the Valiant with a stroker big block.

 

[AJ/FormS]

haven't done that (cover is still on the bench) - now how to do that properly?

Just put the cover in any gear, then try the OTHER lever and see if you can get a second gear.... Which you should not be able to.
In the late style cover with the scissor interlocks, you have to install the forks and then it is impossible to get two gears simultaneously.
But the early covers will get two gears if the interlock lock-out pin goes missing.
With either cover, after it is on, and with at least two of the big-shoulder bolts installed, push the cover "up" as far as it will go, tighten them, then make sure that reverse can still be easily selected.
Make sure the oil baffle is installed in the tail under the vent .....
Did you replace the O-ring on the reverse shifter shaft? You have to remove the reverse idler gear to get that thing outta there. That can be a PITA, so that O-ring may get overlooked during several reconditions and eventually it leaks. Sorta like the back-up light switch which leaks right thru the bakelite seal on the contact spades.
Good on you for doing all the other tricks.

I actually remembered your technique before I started but the cluster pin didn't clear and since I had everything painted.....

That is so cool
=================
The method you used looks like a reasonable alternative.
However, there is a third method that I have used.
It goes like this;
FOUR decades ago, I was employed by an up and coming driveline rebuilding shop. I started out doing Pass car/light truck 3 and 4 speeds from the early 80s and older.
They gave me a steel workbench with a rotator on one end (like an engine stand) for doing rear-ends. I could bolt the loaded case on there horizontally; then walk the tail right in the backdoor; Badaboom! That is how I was taught.
But I stopped doing it that way when I found out that I was strong enough to just drop the tails down. Not bolting the transmissions down and dropping the tails in from the top, allowed my weekly productivity to jump considerably which pleased the boss enough to give me a nice raise....... which was nice cuz the babies had started arriving about every second year.
The boss was pretty in tune with his business, and as soon as he discovered my talent (which I didn't even know I had), he rapidly moved me into more complex, and lucrative for him, builds. And when he found out I didn't have to take stuff apart in order to put it back together, but could work of drawings, well that chit got real. Now I was being paid the big bucks!
By 1980, there wasn't much I hadn't built, but since my favorite builds were RoadRanger transmissions, those were the bulk of what I did. By 1981, those were no longer on the plate; as now, I was doing power-shift transmissions for mining equipment, and for hiway equipment, that were so big that I could nearly stand up inside them.
I worked there for 5 and a half years and during that time, I watched that business double in size nearly every second year. But, I decided to leave the big city, to raise my kids. I heard they hired three new guys to replace me, when I quit, so maybe I really did have a talent, lol. That was a great job, and the guys were great. I missed it for a long while after I quit.

 

[ChargerST]

Just put the cover in any gear, then try the OTHER lever and see if you can get a second gear.... Which you should not be able to.
In the late style cover with the scissor interlocks, you have to install the forks and then it is impossible to get two gears simultaneously.
But the early covers will get two gears if the interlock lock-out pin goes missing.
With either cover, after it is on, and with at least two of the big-shoulder bolts installed, push the cover "up" as far as it will go, tighten them, then make sure that reverse can still be easily selected.
Make sure the oil baffle is installed in the tail under the vent .....
Did you replace the O-ring on the reverse shifter shaft? You have to remove the reverse idler gear to get that thing outta there. That can be a PITA, so that O-ring may get overlooked during several reconditions and eventually it leaks. Sorta like the back-up light switch which leaks right thru the bakelite seal on the contact spades.
Good on you for doing all the other tricks.

That is so cool

didn't replace the O-ring but according to previous owner it didn't leak.. I know I'm taking my chances here

 

[AJ/FormS]

No problem, it only take 20 minutes or so to drop the trans and another 5 to split the box open. So changing it later is only a couple of hours work,including getting the car up high enough to work under....... lol.
BTW
I use 50/50 Dextron-III / 80-90 gearoil. The only reason gearoil is in there at all, is for longevity of the highly-loaded and fastest-wearing part, the cluster-pin, and for the pilot on the front of the M/S.
I tried full-synthetic but couldn't make it work at 6000 to 7000 rpm; it was just too slippery, slowing the shifts down. I really really tried.

 

[ChargerST]

No problem, it only take 20 minutes or so to drop the trans and another 5 to split the box open. So changing it later is only a couple of hours work,including getting the car up high enough to work under....... lol.

I get it ;) Although I have a lift this isn't something I want to do several times. Would it help to leak test the transmission on the bench? Fill it with warm/hot oil and see if it leaks from the shaft?
Or does it work to remove the reverse shaft if you turn the tail housing around (like you do when installing the counter shaft pin)?

BTW
I use 50/50 Dextron-III / 80-90 gearoil. The only reason gearoil is in there at all, is for longevity of the highly-loaded and fastest-wearing part, the cluster-pin, and for the pilot on the front of the M/S.
I tried full-synthetic but couldn't make it work at 6000 to 7000 rpm; it was just too slippery, slowing the shifts down. I really really tried.

noted!

 

[AJ/FormS]

I get it ;) Although I have a lift this isn't something I want to do several times. Would it help to leak test the transmission on the bench? Fill it with warm/hot oil and see if it leaks from the shaft?
Or does it work to remove the reverse shaft if you turn the tail housing around (like you do when installing the counter shaft pin)?

>Or does it work to remove the reverse shaft if you turn the tail housing around (like you do when installing the counter shaft pin)?
Nope; that Idler-pin has to be clubed out the back with a BFG, thru the front opening , using a substantial offset drift. Or you can make a screw to press it out working off the inside front of the case.
The thing is, that O-ring is below the liquid level, lol. That said, they rarely leak.

>Would it help to leak test the transmission on the bench?
Maybe but too much pressure will blow out the front seal or the reverse switch; plus you have to install a rear yoke and chain it up so you don't fire it thru the garage door, lol.
Having a lift; I would take the chance, and, I'll guess that it will be fine.

 

[Rat Bastid]

How do you convert the shift shafts to 3/8 threads?

Liberty does the conversion. They also machine the cover for seals. You can’t run the gearbox without seals on the shift shafts. They will leak.