67_Slimer
Real Hot Rods don't shift themselves.
I've been dealing with it for many years. It's my passion HaHa
Aftermarket gears?
- Thread starter 67_Slimer
- Start date
-
Dave999
Well-Known Member
id want aftermarket over new old stock any day
materials and processing have come on in leaps and bounds over the last 50+ years
materials and processing have come on in leaps and bounds over the last 50+ years
67_Slimer
Real Hot Rods don't shift themselves.
Problem is, I can't find any company that makes them.
Dave999
Well-Known Member
have a chat with paul cangialosi
he seems to have little problem in finding diverse gear sets for all sorts of 4 and 5 speed boxes
i.e he has contacts
granted some of this stuff comes from taiwan and korea BUT he's the kinda guy who aint gonna promote JUNK
look up paul cangialosi gearbox video
contact detail below the video every time
if someone makes a nice better quality gear set and syncros at reasonable cost he will know
5Speeds Transmission Home Page
his site never really shows the services and products he offers. appears to be a "One man band" who fixes manual gearboxes....
i.e id take his advice and a slightly higher price over a purchase with no support direct from another supplier, any day of the week.
had a few bits off him all round good guy
Dave
he seems to have little problem in finding diverse gear sets for all sorts of 4 and 5 speed boxes
i.e he has contacts
granted some of this stuff comes from taiwan and korea BUT he's the kinda guy who aint gonna promote JUNK
look up paul cangialosi gearbox video
contact detail below the video every time
if someone makes a nice better quality gear set and syncros at reasonable cost he will know
5Speeds Transmission Home Page
his site never really shows the services and products he offers. appears to be a "One man band" who fixes manual gearboxes....
i.e id take his advice and a slightly higher price over a purchase with no support direct from another supplier, any day of the week.
had a few bits off him all round good guy
Dave
Last edited:
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Just so you know, when I learned how to not break a gear box it was from Joe Liberty. I did exactly what you are doing. I was looking for the 9310 gear set.
A few minutes into the conversation he asked what the issues were. I told him I can't keep third gear in one piece.
He asked about the clutch. When I told him I had a 3 paddle disc and 2400 pounds of plate pressure he told me that he couldn't make a gear that clutch wouldn't destroy.
That's when he schooled me on clutches. Still being a little wobbly on his thinking, I called the guy at Jerico and told him what I was doing.
He said the same thing Liberty said, and that was he couldn't make a gear set to take that either.
The upshot is it's not that the gears are weak or old. The fact is these parts breaking clutches have set back stick racing for decades.
I don't like to see you looking for a unicorn to plow your field when you have a perfectly good draft horse sitting there.
The 833 isn't some weak sister to the Muncie or the T10. There is a reason why they made adapters to put Chrysler boxes behind GM engines.
67_Slimer
Real Hot Rods don't shift themselves.
OK , I get it , my clutch is "junk" , but it was fine for 22 years previously of power shifting , racing etc. The only other factor was I had 2 heavy passengers when I smoked 3rd gear. 500 lbs extra will do that. . I'll be fine , if not , then I'll deal with it. The car made MANY passes down the rack with slicks and did just fine with that exact clutch set up.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Yup, I understand. It’s the cumulative effect of all those shifts. I forget, are you using a 3 paddle or a 6 paddle disc?
If it’s 3 you can order a 6 and that will calm it down a bit.
Also you can drop the plate load way down. I forgot where I started getting into issues but I think I could run the 6 paddle down to 1500 pounds and the 3 paddle down to 1000 pounds.
Any lighter than that and it would make enough heat to blow the friction material right off of the disc.
That would help a bunch.
The other thing about third gear is it turns the fastest on the main shaft. So not only are we dealing with the smallest gear on the shaft, plus it’s on the end of the shaft and it’s turning pretty close to crank rpm.
It’s multiple issues. Anything you can do to take hit away from the clutch will help.
An aluminum flywheel is a big deal too. All that rotational inertia breaks parts too. Or helps break them.
I had a guy tell me that when the clutch is right in these cars shifting into 4th gear should feel like flushing a toilet.
He wasn’t wrong.
19DART66
Well-Known Member
67 Slimer, May I ask what times your car turns, and what the 60 ft. are? What's been done to the engine and chase? A video of your car leaving the line would be nice too.
67_Slimer
Real Hot Rods don't shift themselves.
Haven't run the car in years. It's basically a street car now but might get to the track next season. Can't really afford the race anymore or risk breaking However , I don't remember all the details but it was a 12.20 car with cast iron 2.02 heads (before the eddys were on) Definitely felt a difference after the head swap. I'm not looking to break record or parts , I like to cruise and rip some gears without having to worry about sweeping up parts.
Dave999
Well-Known Member
The clutch tamer man who posts occasionally, summed it up a while back
some initial clutch slip is key to a happy trans and can get you off the line faster
if it bites like a rottweiler, and you buttock lifts from the seat base and the seat back groans when you try to press the peddle down, its probably overkill on the plate material and clamping force of the cover
basically organic clutch plates are cheaper than a whole trans or axle
Dave
some initial clutch slip is key to a happy trans and can get you off the line faster
if it bites like a rottweiler, and you buttock lifts from the seat base and the seat back groans when you try to press the peddle down, its probably overkill on the plate material and clamping force of the cover
basically organic clutch plates are cheaper than a whole trans or axle
Dave
Last edited:
67_Slimer
Real Hot Rods don't shift themselves.
it literally feels like I'm getting rearended by a locomotive when i dump the clutch. Easiest way to explain it. So keeping my PP , what disc do you recommend? street driving but I want to rip it occasionally without it slipping.
19DART66
Well-Known Member
I think the best clutch setup for your car would be a clutch that is very close to the original 340 factory clutch. Which if I remember correctly was a 2300# Borg Beck pressure plate with a rag disc( what we called them back in the day) or to day, an organic disc. You could use a diaphragm pressure plate but keep the static pressure around the same 2300#. That should soften the hit some and keep the trans happy in a street car. You don't need anything in that 3000 to 3200# with an overly aggressive clutch disc, like a paddle disc or a Center Force II. there just parts breakers.
Swinger 340
Well-Known Member
19DART66, I had to chuckle. Years ago, I had a friend that had a trans Am drag car and every time he upgraded something, he broke something.
19DART66
Well-Known Member
Swinger 340, I hate to say it but I know that scenario real well. It took me about 5 years after I switched the 66 Dart from an auto to a manual trans, that I was going in the wrong direction with the clutch. Axle, sure grips, rear axle gears, driveshafts, and clutches, I broke it all. Switched to a Soft-Loc clutch and haven't broke a driveline part in at least 12 years since and picked up well over a 1/2 second in ET's
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
BTDT myself.
BTW, that bottom picture of you car is a text book example of what a door car should look like leaving. Absolutely fantastic.
Not a bunch of rear separation. The tire is wrinkled about 25-30% and the side wall isn’t being beat to death. The car is level. You have what looks to be 5 inches or so of front end travel.
Just a perfect picture of a very sexy car. Guys should study that picture and strive to get there.
Dave999
Well-Known Member
i have a tiny motor in comparison 320 ftlb max
so i got rid of the six cylinder based stuff
i went with a 10 inch organic plate over the orginal 9.5 size, and a clutch cover off a modern 5- 6 liter fuel injected v8 (GM holden)
so for my 300 ftlb i have a modern car clutch designed for 400-500
standard parts both, from a "Big Boy's" motor rather than a 6, on a custom vented lightweight steel flywheel.
i.e I went with the premise of "Good Enough" rather than race clutch.
i'm running an Australian 4 speed single rail box (like a mini ford SROD with sensible gears) on the opposite side of the world (uk). no parts made since 1980, has to stay in 1 piece...
setting my clutch bite point higher, let me soft launch better and i ran a PB doing that.
i.e i started moving earlier and did not drag the motor rpm off the torque peak in the process.. hence better 1/4 mile. clutch slip for a very short period of time helps....
instantaneous torque seen by the gears is reduced, but with some slip the torque that is continually supplied to the rear is more likely to turn the wheels under traction than spin them. its a "cushion" to cater for your sticky tyres... the clutch operates more like a torque converter, for milliseconds until it locks.
Dave
so i got rid of the six cylinder based stuff
i went with a 10 inch organic plate over the orginal 9.5 size, and a clutch cover off a modern 5- 6 liter fuel injected v8 (GM holden)
so for my 300 ftlb i have a modern car clutch designed for 400-500
standard parts both, from a "Big Boy's" motor rather than a 6, on a custom vented lightweight steel flywheel.
i.e I went with the premise of "Good Enough" rather than race clutch.
i'm running an Australian 4 speed single rail box (like a mini ford SROD with sensible gears) on the opposite side of the world (uk). no parts made since 1980, has to stay in 1 piece...
setting my clutch bite point higher, let me soft launch better and i ran a PB doing that.
i.e i started moving earlier and did not drag the motor rpm off the torque peak in the process.. hence better 1/4 mile. clutch slip for a very short period of time helps....
instantaneous torque seen by the gears is reduced, but with some slip the torque that is continually supplied to the rear is more likely to turn the wheels under traction than spin them. its a "cushion" to cater for your sticky tyres... the clutch operates more like a torque converter, for milliseconds until it locks.
Dave
Last edited:
-
