Almost lost a wheel

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valiantpatrol

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I'm using modern billet adapters on my SBP drums to run BBP wheels. Car developed a vibration and this is what I found on left front. 3 of the 5 lug studs had sheared off. Nuts on sheared lugs do no appear to have backed off prior to failing. Because I could not buy LH thread lug nuts with the larger conical seat I used the stock nuts to hold the adapter on. Was my error in not using the large conical nuts, or failing to use lock tite on the stock nuts I used, or improper torque on nuts holding spacer to drum. Any similiar experiences ? Opinions ?

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Agree on the older cast aluminum versions. But until now I've not had any trouble with the newer billet ones. Though I must admit my confidence is a bit shaken. This wheel/adapter combo has just under 80K miles on them since backyard resurection.
 
I had a billet set made in the early 80's that use the stock lug nuts like yours. only used on the rear to match the front 73 & up disc brakes of a cruising only car. My opinion I would never use adaptors on the front wheels.
 
I'm using modern billet adapters on my SBP drums to run BBP wheels. Car developed a vibration and this is what I found on left front. 3 of the 5 lug studs had sheared off. Nuts on sheared lugs do no appear to have backed off prior to failing. Because I could not buy LH thread lug nuts with the larger conical seat I used the stock nuts to hold the adapter on. Was my error in not using the large conical nuts, or failing to use lock tite on the stock nuts I used, or improper torque on nuts holding spacer to drum. Any similiar experiences ? Opinions ?

View attachment 1716304109

These things are flat out dangerous, especially on the front wheels.

They were crap back in the day, still crap now.
 
@moplvr166 - I wondered about dynamic loading. My favorite on ramps are sweeping right handers that would likely add stress to left front hub/drum assembly given my enthusiastic driving style.
 
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Well, you did over torque them. But I honestly don't think that did it. I tend to agree about the added stress. The farther "out" you go, the more the shear factor. At least that's just my guess. If nothing else, it sounds good. LOL Really glad you weren't hurt.
 
@ RustyRatRod - Agree on feeling both lucky and blessed. Its the shear factor that's giving me concern. I'd have more confidence in using/reusing these if lug nuts had backed off rather than sheared off.
 
@ RustyRatRod - Agree on feeling both lucky and blessed. Its the shear factor that's giving me concern. I'd have more confidence in using/reusing these if lug nuts had backed off rather than sheared off.
I can completely understand.
 
Well, you did over torque them. But I honestly don't think that did it. I tend to agree about the added stress. The farther "out" you go, the more the shear factor. At least that's just my guess. If nothing else, it sounds good. LOL Really glad you weren't hurt.

That doesn't impact the shear load on those lug studs that much, but remember, the longer the spacer, the more tension is applied to the lug studs. On the factory setup, the shear is transmitted a little bit through the center register and primarily through the clamped face between wheel and disc/drum. If that's too large, a la Magnum 500 wheels, then there still isn't much shear because of the clamp load forcing wheel to drum/disc. Lug studs are primarily a tension device.

Now, picture a wheel spacer that's 3' long. Pushing upwards on the end of that spacer (as in, gravity is pulling the car down) that's a 3' lever pulling on the lug studs on the bottom, whereas the factory design has that force transmitting basically right up through the face where the wheel and drum/disc meet (which is also almost centered between the wheel bearings). The center of the factory wheel/tire is basically inline with the drum/disc face.

Offset is a thing, for a reason.

Without seeing the fracture face of those studs, it can't be specifically determined what caused them to fail, but I know I'd be calling ARP or someone and replacing all your lug studs.

Then you'll have the right studs for the recommended nuts. :D
 
I'm using modern billet adapters on my SBP drums to run BBP wheels. Car developed a vibration and this is what I found on left front. 3 of the 5 lug studs had sheared off. Nuts on sheared lugs do no appear to have backed off prior to failing. Because I could not buy LH thread lug nuts with the larger conical seat I used the stock nuts to hold the adapter on. Was my error in not using the large conical nuts, or failing to use lock tite on the stock nuts I used, or improper torque on nuts holding spacer to drum. Any similiar experiences ? Opinions ?

View attachment 1716304109

For the naysayers, there is NOTHING WRONG with using spacer/adaptors that bolt on like that. They is literally no difference between using those and using a wheel that has a backspace that places the center of the wheel in the same spot as with the adaptors. None. If the centerline of the wheel is in the same spot, the lever arm on the studs is the same, and the forces to the studs will be the same. As long as the studs/nuts have the proper thread engagement and proper torque there should be no issues. You do of course have 2 sets of lugs to torque and maintain torque on.

As for why they failed, I will say it is likely a combination of several of the things you mentioned.

-The nuts were over torqued
-How often did you check/retorque the nuts (all of them)?
-The studs are 50+ years old and unknown history. Could have been over torqued dozens of times previously
-The adaptors were likely designed for a 1/2" stud, you're using 7/16", so the fit at the studs might not have been sufficient
-The smaller nuts may have less surface area engagement on the adaptors, so, the clamp force might not have been sufficient between the nut and stud

And finally, is the angle on the original conical nuts the same as the later ones? Because if the angle on the nut doesn't match the adaptor you might not have had the proper interface.

There is no issue with using the adaptors, BUT, you must properly torque the nuts and re-check them at the appropriate intervals. And the studs do need to be in good condition. Personally, I would not use adaptors with stock studs of unknown history. Because really, using the stock studs on a 50+ year old car is a crapshoot to begin with. Yes, lots of people do it. And if you don't drive a ton, use factory wheel sizes etc then it may never be an issue. Start driving more, running wider or heavier wheel set ups etc and especially with the 7/16" SBP studs you can definitely be pushing your luck.
 
maybe that's why the hub was on the outside of the disk of the K&H disk brakes ? keeping the hub /wheel register ?
do they make spacers with registers ?
 
maybe that's why the hub was on the outside of the disk of the K&H disk brakes ? keeping the hub /wheel register ?
do they make spacers with registers ?

They do, but you're just bringing up the old hub centered vs lug centered argument. There are plenty of lug centered wheels out in the world, if everything is properly installed and torqued lug centered is fine.
 
Yep, believe it or not torque specs for our 67 cuda lug nuts is 55 lb/ft. I broke one and was like wtf??

Even the factory spec for the 1/2" studs was 65 ft-lbs, so 70 would be an over torque for either one
 
@)72bluNblu - the seat angles on the 7/16 RH lug nuts supplied with adapters are much broader than the angled seat on the factory lug nuts. This has caused me concern since the day first installed. Agree, that true cause/causes can only be speculated upon. Prior to this vehicle, wheels and adapters were on a later model drum braked car and held on with the larger seat nuts and never had an issue. Food for thought for other members using adapters held on with left hand nuts/studs.
 
The problem is the added stress from the adapters.

They add no additional stress compared to a wheel with the same effective offset. None.

@)72bluNblu - the seat angles on the 7/16 RH lug nuts supplied with adapters are much broader than the angled seat on the factory lug nuts. This has caused me concern since the day first installed. Agree, that true cause/causes can only be speculated upon. Prior to this vehicle, wheels and adapters were on a later model drum braked car and held on with the larger seat nuts and never had an issue. Food for thought for other members using adapters held on with left hand nuts/studs.

Yup, that is definitely a reason for concern. You need a solid interface between the nut and the seat on the adaptor, and if the factory nuts don't match the ones supplied with the adaptors that can absolutely cause issues. In this particular case that definitely could have contributed, but so could the over torque, the age/history of the studs, etc.

And it very well may have been the combination of all of those factors, since none of them are exclusive.
I would have to agree.....especially on that cantilevered style adapter.

Nope. See above.
 
It should be noted the other three wheels/adapters are still as snug as when installed.

Based upon reading 72bluNblu's observations, the other three adapters and studs could be accidents waiting to happen.

May be a good idea to replace the studs in the other wheels and make sure the lug nuts seat properly in the adapters.

At least you would be sure they were not over torqued and unsafe.
 
Based upon reading 72bluNblu's observations, the other three adapters and studs could be accidents waiting to happen.

May be a good idea to replace the studs in the other wheels and make sure the lug nuts seat properly in the adapters.

At least you would be sure they were not over torqued and unsafe.

Yeah I would definitely be replacing the rest of the OE studs. It could be that the corner that failed had just been over torqued previously and the others have not, especially since it's the LH thread side, but there's no way of knowing that.

And if he can find the right studs he can use the right lug nuts for the adaptors, win-win.
 
I'm using modern billet adapters on my SBP drums to run BBP wheels. Car developed a vibration and this is what I found on left front. 3 of the 5 lug studs had sheared off. Nuts on sheared lugs do no appear to have backed off prior to failing. Because I could not buy LH thread lug nuts with the larger conical seat I used the stock nuts to hold the adapter on. Was my error in not using the large conical nuts, or failing to use lock tite on the stock nuts I used, or improper torque on nuts holding spacer to drum. Any similiar experiences ? Opinions ?

View attachment 1716304109
 
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