Alterkation or K1?

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ramcharger

ramcharger

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I've got a 72 Duster and have a mild built LA (350-400hp), I may go with a BB block (stroked 400) in the future. This car will not be a dragstrip only car. I want to enjoy it, do some mountain cruising, some twisty's etc.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I love hitting the strip but 2 -3 hours between runs while baking in the sun sucks, been there done that running Pro ET on my bike. I want to enjoy this car and I'm not getting any younger and can't afford the big air conditioned, Peterbuilt pulled enclosed rigs these guys were running in this class. Holy ****, they had weather stations that would text their pit crew from the lot to the starting line! I can't believe I even got in the top ten one year.

Anyway, what have you all chosen?

Race1.jpg
 
Here is some quick math:
AlterKtion kit: $5500 plus shipping, maybe tax as well.
Rebuilt and upgraded factory front suspension: $2500.
The aftermarket stuff looks pretty but is a step backward in durability. It would be no fun at all to be out on some road trip and have one of their cheezy Heim joints fail.....with no supplier for them anywhere in sight.
 
Kern Dog said:
Here is some quick math:
AlterKtion kit: $5500 plus shipping, maybe tax as well.
Rebuilt and upgraded factory front suspension: $2500.
The aftermarket stuff looks pretty but is a step backward in durability. It would be no fun at all to be out on some road trip and have one of their cheezy Heim joints fail.....with no supplier for them anywhere in sight.
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I came really close to pulling the trigger on the complete (front and rear) Alterkation kit once. The idea of my car handling more like a modern muscle car appealed to me. But then I got to thinking that my car drove pretty well, and for a few thousand I could really rebuild and upgrade my suspension. Plus, with the Alterkation kit, I would have needed to get all new brakes and wheels and tires. Front only was going to be about $7500 with all that. I just couldn't justify that.
 
Just get the Reilly Motorsports Street Lynx for the Rear, It comes with 12" 175"/# Springs, I swapped Mine out for 200"/# Springs.
And then Build / Upgrade the Torsion Bar Front suspension with Proper 1.03" or Larger Bars, Sway Bar, Good 16:1 Box, Proforged Rod ends and Ball Joints, Skookum Tubular Upper Bars, With Bushings or Rod Ends, FFI Sway Bar, and good Big Brakes. Just look Back at Tim Werner's Red Brick and The Old Mopar Acton Green Brick Car, Those Cars Did what you are asking for but without the Triangulated 4 link out back.
I did all of that on my '64 Dart and its wicked fun on the Highway and back roads as well as the auto X course.
One advantage of putting the triangulated 4 link in is that you get bonus area under the trunk floor fo sinking the Battery box if desired.
 
The best handling road course Mopars out there have factory based suspension...
This one is NOT one the top handling cars, but was pretty good. This run was also with a failing alternator (hence the need to refire at the end of the run). Nearly 2 seconds quicker on this course than a turbocharged WRX and a supercharged Jag. We put this together ON THE CHEAP, too.

 
This was an original V8 car and I have no issue with welding/fabrication. I'm very open to modifying the original K member for strength.
 
Kern Dog said:
Here is some quick math:
AlterKtion kit: $5500 plus shipping, maybe tax as well.
Rebuilt and upgraded factory front suspension: $2500.
The aftermarket stuff looks pretty but is a step backward in durability. It would be no fun at all to be out on some road trip and have one of their cheezy Heim joints fail.....with no supplier for them anywhere in sight.
Click to expand...

Lol, I'm a Jeep guy, I can find the right heim for anything, but you make a great point.
 
Jim Lusk said:
The best handling road course Mopars out there have factory based suspension...
This one is NOT one the top handling cars, but was pretty good. This run was also with a failing alternator (hence the need to refire at the end of the run). Nearly 2 seconds quicker on this course than a turbocharged WRX and a supercharged Jag. We put this together ON THE CHEAP, too.

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Wow! Very well done!
 
What are the attributes of the coilover type suspensions that are appealing to you? Adjustability? Bigger selection of brake kits? Rack and pinion? Weight reduction?

I have an Alter-k-tion in a 70 'cuda. I have also amassed the parts for an all out torsion bar suspension for my Valiant.
After all the stuff I have bought for the Valiant I could have bought a QA1 or Alter-k-tion. I really wanted to optimize an OE suspension though. I have achieved laser crisp handling with the 'cuda and it's Alter-k and triangulated 4 link rear. Just wanted to do it old school this time.
I can attest to how well the stuff from Reilly Motorsports works. To match that with the OEM suspension I went all in on the Bergman Autocraft, Firm Feel, and Hotchkis parts. I also got an electronic power assisted steering unit. I have what I think is the best of the best parts you can get for a serious OE road race/ autox suspension. It's not cheap. I had the k-member hot tanked, sandblasted and welded up gussets and at the seems too. With the coilover suspensions you have to do a lot of stiffening too so think about that. Required is j-bars or the inner fender stiffening from US Cartool or XV since you remove the t-bars.
One of my favorite things about the coilover suspensions is the rack and pinion. To meet that satisfaction with the OE suspension I bought the EPAS unit. I also spent big on Doctor Diffs Viper brake kit. Those are two purchases that put the cost of the optimized OE suspension up there with the Alter-k-tion.
A good thing about the Alter-k-tion is you don't have to research and figure out what aftermarket parts for OEM suspensions work with each other. It really is a complete package other than your choice of brakes and the stiffening. The chassis stiffening is a wash because if you want to build a serious track car you are going to brace the car either way. Same thing with the brakes. You could spend thousands on Mopar spindle brakes if you wanted top of the line Baer. Premium brakes are going to be expensive either road you choose.
For me, the rack and pinion put the Alter-k-tion over an OE suspension. That is until EPAS came out and I'm really hoping it pays off.
A huge benefit to coilover suspensions is the cavernous space to fit headers. A torsion bar car is always going to suffer there.
Maybe the biggest benefit of the OE suspension is that you can continue to drive the car while upgrading to Hotchkis shock, Borgeson boxes, bigger torsion bars, SPC upper control arms,...... With the coilover suspensions you have to go all in with one shot.
Don't let a coilover guy tell you that the torsion bar stuff is antiquated. And don't let a torsion bar guy tell you OEM stuff is cheaper for the same level of performance. IMO, if you want an OEM suspension to perform as good as the coilover systems with a stiffened chassis you are going to spend the same amount.
 
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go-fish said:
What are the attributed of the coilover type suspensions that are appealing to you? Adjustability? Bigger selection of brake kits? Rack and pinion? Weight reduction?
.
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I've got King Coilovers on the front of my YJ and they are amazing. Click it up on the dampening and I don't even need sway bars, drop it all the way down and I'm super compliant on the trails, plus the spring selection is outstanding. Granted, I really don't need that on this build.
 
Jim Lusk said:
The best handling road course Mopars out there have factory based suspension...
This one is NOT one the top handling cars, but was pretty good. This run was also with a failing alternator (hence the need to refire at the end of the run). Nearly 2 seconds quicker on this course than a turbocharged WRX and a supercharged Jag. We put this together ON THE CHEAP, too.

Click to expand...


In your opinion, what's the best "fixes" for the OEM suspension? Sway bars and larger brakes? Custom leaf springs and larger torsion bars?

The stock chassis seems to do well when properly sprung for the task, but still responds well to chassis stiffening, reinforcement, and some sort of traction bars to prevent wheel hop...
 
No thoughts about @HemiDenny's junk? He makes some really nice stuff. That would be the direction I'd go if I ever do something like that to Vixen.
 
Jim Lusk said:
The best handling road course Mopars out there have factory based suspension...
This one is NOT one the top handling cars, but was pretty good. This run was also with a failing alternator (hence the need to refire at the end of the run). Nearly 2 seconds quicker on this course than a turbocharged WRX and a supercharged Jag. We put this together ON THE CHEAP, too.

Click to expand...

Very cool stuff, Jim!
 
I don't have one but I would go HDK over any of those others. He is a member here so you have that. You can research here and see how they are built. They look to be very well engineered and very sturdy. To me, HDK makes Alterkation look like backyard stuff.

HemiDenny
 
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tinman2 said:
To me, HDK makes Alterkation look like backyard stuff.
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That’s very telling of you. Alter-k-tion was made by a long time member and , I believe, moderator over at Big Block Dart.
The guy has been building these suspension since the 90’s.
The welds on the k-frames are amazing.
I am not going to bash Denny’s stuff but a bolt on shock tower? C’mon, man.
I was actually looking at his stuff recently. You’re not going to save ANY money with his system. He has a nice low price up at the top of the page. Then scroll down and see how much the full kit is.
As far as steering geometry? All of them are a Mustang 2 spindle and rear mounted rack. His ain’t any better or cheaper.
 
go-fish said:
That’s very telling of you. Alter-k-tion was made by a long time member and , I believe, moderator over at Big Block Dart.
The guy has been building these suspension since the 90’s.
The welds on the k-frames are amazing.
I am not going to bash Denny’s stuff but a bolt on shock tower? C’mon, man.
I was actually looking at his stuff recently. You’re not going to save ANY money with his system. He has a nice low price up at the top of the page. Then scroll down and see how much the full kit is.
As far as steering geometry? All of them are a Mustang 2 spindle and rear mounted rack. His ain’t any better or cheaper.
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Opinions vary. Dang... seems like I can't comment on anything without someone one wanting to argue. This is my #1 website I go to anytime I have a few spare minutes but I have been getting tired of all the arguing between members on here.
 
tinman2 said:
Opinions vary.
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Seems like your opinion is based on the fact that Denny is a member here. My about his stuff is engineering based. Bolt on shock towers? It’s what carry’s the weight of the car!
I don’t want to bash Denny’s product. If his stuff was cheaper I would be inclined to use it and weld those things in. The price on all these coilover systems only varies by a hundred to couple hundred bucks. Reilly was the first and they have all gone after his price point. It’s only a matter of what flavor you like. Price is the same essentially.
 
go-fish said:
Seems like your opinion is based on the fact that Denny is a member here. My about his stuff is engineering based. Bolt on shock towers? It’s what carry’s the weight of the car!
I don’t want to bash Denny’s product. If his stuff was cheaper I would be inclined to use it and weld those things in. The price on all these coilover systems only varies by a hundred to couple hundred bucks. Reilly was the first and they have all gone after his price point. It’s only a matter of what flavor you like. Price is the same essentially.
Click to expand...
Like I said... my opinion. Carry on. I'm done here.
 
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