RAMM
Well-Known Member
Shhh--Don't tell the customer the balancer I'm putting on his engine is junk . J.Rob
Another 416 Stroker Build-Pic Heavy
- Thread starter RAMM
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RAMM
Well-Known Member
.005" thrust clearance. J.Rob
skep419
5.9 Magnum 4 speed afficionado
your saying I should ditch the OE style rubber pioneer DA-3602
and install something like this SCAT SCA9012
and install something like this SCAT SCA9012
Who’s damper is that?
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
your saying I should ditch the OE style rubber pioneer DA-3602
View attachment 1715629569
and install something like this SCAT SCA9012
I’ve never seen that. I’m assuming it’s an elastomer damper, but I could be wrong.
EDIT: at some point the question has to be asked at what point have you spent enough money on a rotating assembly, you’ve had it balanced and all that and then you cheap out and buy a damper that was developed and used by ORM’s because it’s cheap to manufacture and works relatively well IF, the Bob weight is close to what it’s tuned for, the RPM range it’s tuned for and if the resonance frequency in the materials is the same as the OE stuff.
That’s a ton of money spent to skimp out on at the end.
It’s also why I run Milodon gear drives. I know the cam timing, and the piston to valve clearance will be the same as it is when I degree the cam, in 1000 miles, 10,000 miles or 100,000 miles.
I expect the same from a damper. I know that rubber, which is the dampening agent in elastomer dampers degrades with heat/cold cycles and with, like the time worn paper clip example, rubber work hardens. So how long does it take before the damper starts to lose its effectiveness? How much does it lose, and at what frequencies? At what point does it not function at all? My answer is I don’t know that. And so far, I’ve never found anyone who can say it with any authority.
The one design feature with the ATI damper is you can rebuild it, and you can change the durometer of the rubber. What changes and how much of a change is not something an average guy can do.
It’s funny, but if you went to a tire shop and they offered you tires that will work, but after the first 10000 miles they will start to get hard, and lose some traction capabilities, which not only affects forward motion, but lateral and braking as well.
By 20000 miles they will look good, and have a ton of tread but they will be hard as nails and performance will be like riding on stone.
Or, you can pay a bit more and get tires that will do what they do brand new in 100000 miles. Which would you chose?
Stepping over donuts to pick up dog turds is a bad life philosophy.
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skep419
5.9 Magnum 4 speed afficionado
Scat harmonic balancers are made from bulletproof 1045 steel making them ideal for racing. Scat SFI harmonic balancers are designed to be installed on race engines that may rev over 10,000 rpm. Optimum damping occurs in the 6000 to 8000 rpm range. The machine work on these Balancers is second to none and the critical fit tolerances and balance are held more closely than OEM. They come with a gloss black paint finish and outlined timing marks for easier reading.
- Bulletproof 1045 steel Construction - extremely tough Balancer
- High RPM Design - safely to 10,000 + rpm
- Bonded Hub - elastomer bonded to ring and hub
- Timing Marks - white marks for easier reading
- Precision Machined - tighter tolerances than OEM. Precision fit to crankshaft, not like other cheap Balancers on the market
- Very affordable & High Quality - priced like the cheap Balancers but with the precision of the expensive ones.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Bullet point 3 is the deal killer for me.
ANY SFI damper is steel. Some are aluminum. None that I know of can get SFI approved if they are cast iron.
RAMM
Well-Known Member
BUT-BUT you said that Tom Lieb the owner of Scat crankshafts says elastomer type dampener is JUNK. I'm confused. Help a fella out. J.Rob
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Guessing cycles.
If i were to guess based on my own experience...but base it on track time around 300-350 heat cycles.
How long till its completely useless,800 or so. Maybe 6 years as a daily driver.
I pulled my pioneer off after 3 motors and 15 yrs... its about as hard as the edge of a sheet masonite.
Reminds me i need 2 dampeners, a throttle plate and a set of header gaskets.
skep419
5.9 Magnum 4 speed afficionado
- Manufacturer
Scat - Vehicle Make
SB Chrysler - Engine Balance
Internal / External (must have a weight that bolts to the back?) - Safety Rating
SFI Rated
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Did I say THAT? I don’t think I did.
What I said he said was the ATI damper has flaws. I say it flaw isn’t just its design, I say it’s that it’s an elastomer damper as well.
Im not going to sit here and type out why he said about ATI, but if anyone wants to hear it for themselves, they can listen to his webinar by clicking the link I posted for the PERA webinars.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
See post 38. Seems you misread what I posted. I’ve made no bone about why I don’t use elastomer dampers. Coincidentally, Chrysler came to the same conclusions. I knew that LONG before the book by Chrysler was written.
RAMM
Well-Known Member
Guess you should have written the book first then. Tell ya what--go start your own thread and educate us schmucks about how the most commonly used type of balancer in the world is no good. Oh and don't forget to tell us what actually works and why please. J.Rob
RAMM
Well-Known Member
Found a picture of why the block isn't sleevable. J.Rob
Naaaa, that’s fine! Weld it, sleeve it, it’ll buff out just fine!
I believe "junk ****" was the quote. lol
I wonder how many "junk ****" balancers have been used successfully in stock eliminator and every other form of racing? ...and don't they make SFI approved "junk ****" elastomer balancers?
Just grind on it till you caint see the crack anymore.
i change mine every 6 years , also change all the hoses and belts every 3 years ,just insurance , hat having a breakdown because of some cheap rubber crap . and i don't use any rubber brake lines
this is the junk i use , so far it's good , only 3 year though
https://www.manciniracing.com/chv8271.html
this is the junk i use , so far it's good , only 3 year though
https://www.manciniracing.com/chv8271.html
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yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Don’t post your stuff public and I won’t comment.
I can tell you EXACTLY what Tom Lieb said about ATI, but you’d argue that and make more **** up.
Run what you want. Junk IS junk at ANY price.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Well, that’s a start. How do you curve damper performance segregation?
Again, asking because I don’t know.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
I said “junk ****” and somehow that get to that’s what Tom Lieb said.
This is how threads go sideways.
Again, as a percentage, how many of those junk cranks broke with an elastomer damper, and how many failed running a different type of damper?
I honestly have no idea, except to see the percentage of engines built with them I and certainly the lesser brands and even OE used up stuff and probably some “rebuilt” dampers certainly would be in the 90 percentile.
When I see damage like that, the LAST thing I look at is the blatantly obvious. Having autopsied many engines like that over the years, the blatantly obvious is almost never the cause.
So who is Tom Lieb?
Brother of Jeb....
Dartsun
Mopar Dude
Owner of Scat crankshafts
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