Another 416 Stroker Build-Pic Heavy

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408 swinger said:
Ok. I wanted to say Scat, just wasn't sure.
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Eagle never supplied Ma Mopar, it was always Scat. I've run a Scat 9000 crank in a 416 to 649hp in 2004 with Indy 360-1 heads with a junk ATI. Engine is making less now with different heads but still has a one piece crank. J.Rob
 
RAMM, what is your opinion on those Johnson solid lifters? I put a set in my 422 that is still under construction.
I’ll be watching this thread closely as it seems very similar to mine, similar flow numbers also.
 
RAMM said:
Eagle never supplied Ma Mopar, it was always Scat. I've run a Scat 9000 crank in a 416 to 649hp in 2004 with Indy 360-1 heads with a junk ATI. Engine is making less now with different heads but still has a one piece crank. J.Rob
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Them junk **** balancers sure get around.
 
I always loved how my Dad would react to people saying cast cranks are crap. He ran stock 350 Chevy cranks in his dirt track engines for many seasons. He had less problems with them than the Callies cranks he used to use. Ran them to 8,200 during qualifying and 8 during the race, and didn't have a single engine failure related to the crank. The argument could be made that the car was lighter and the rotating assembly was lighter as well, but the last few engines he had dynoed right at 750 hp, and that was in the mid '90s.
 
Have you guys ever seen a engine blown up this bad? Not mine. I got the picture of the internet. Ramm keep the updates coming on the build

Screenshot_20201114-205842_Facebook.jpg
 
RammerJammer75 said:
I always loved how my Dad would react to people saying cast cranks are crap. He ran stock 350 Chevy cranks in his dirt track engines for many seasons. He had less problems with them than the Callies cranks he used to use. Ran them to 8,200 during qualifying and 8 during the race, and didn't have a single engine failure related to the crank. The argument could be made that the car was lighter and the rotating assembly was lighter as well, but the last few engines he had dynoed right at 750 hp, and that was in the mid '90s.
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seen many cast gm crank turn 8 grand all season on dirt! only crank brake i know of track was a corn field and cars were bouncing around like off road trucks! and that was a forged scat crank! dirt racing is one of the hardest applications on cranks and rotating assembly!! local dirt track engine guru here said a cast crank can distort more than a forged before it brakes because forged is more brittle!
 
I'm not being clear enough, I guess. It's a game of odds, and perhaps karma.

Expecting to become a race hero using inferior parts is a gamble. You might do it. But the odds are less than if you used good parts. And if you do have everything fly apart, your right to sympathy and outrage isn't so strong.

Sure, we've all run cast cranks and won the Top Fuel class at the Winternationals but those are anecdotal instances. I used to have unprotected sex in the 80's with the entire road crew of Queen, including the tour bus driver and makeup artist, and never got even the tiniest crab. But if did, I wouldn't deserve a lot of crying.
 
SSG_Karg said:
RAMM, what is your opinion on those Johnson solid lifters? I put a set in my 422 that is still under construction.
I’ll be watching this thread closely as it seems very similar to mine, similar flow numbers also.
Click to expand...

The Johnson/Scorpion lifters fit without grinding, feature a short light body, are made in USA and seem to have a strong link bar arrangement. I like them very much so far. I think the roller cam will put us over the 500hp goal quite easily. J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
Eagle never supplied Ma Mopar, it was always Scat. I've run a Scat 9000 crank in a 416 to 649hp in 2004 with Indy 360-1 heads with a junk ATI. Engine is making less now with different heads but still has a one piece crank. J.Rob
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Thanks for the clarification! Also, thank you for the build information you share with us! Thank you for taking the time!
 
Nat said:
why don't you sell a Y R seal of approval sticker for dampers and if a cranks breaks with your approved product you pay for the lab analysis and repairs
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What’s with the butthurt? Why not post something up other than what you use? Or go find an SAE paper on resonance frequency and dampening characteristics of available mediums?

Want me to post up the Chrysler R&D on this stuff so you can argue with them?
 
yellow rose said:
What’s with the butthurt? Why not post something up other than what you use? Or go find an SAE paper on resonance frequency and dampening characteristics of available mediums?

Want me to post up the Chrysler R&D on this stuff so you can argue with them?
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No one is arguing with you and I think I may speak for some others but We DONT' CARE. You do you and I'll do me. J.Rob
 
gregcon said:
I'm not being clear enough, I guess. It's a game of odds, and perhaps karma.

Expecting to become a race hero using inferior parts is a gamble. You might do it. But the odds are less than if you used good parts. And if you do have everything fly apart, your right to sympathy and outrage isn't so strong.

Sure, we've all run cast cranks and won the Top Fuel class at the Winternationals but those are anecdotal instances. I used to have unprotected sex in the 80's with the entire road crew of Queen, including the tour bus driver and makeup artist, and never got even the tiniest crab. But if did, I wouldn't deserve a lot of crying.
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I call bullshit on all these guys spinning 8000 plus on cast cranks. A forged crank will fracture before it fails and a cast crank will just fail.

I’ve heard all the stories even at the local circle tracks and drag strips. Had a guy swear he was hitting 8k half way down the main straight at a bull ring 1/4 dirt track. So I looked at his gearing and tire size and at best, even running in 3rd gear he might hit 7200, and his corner exit RPM would have had to be over 6k to get that.

So I asked the clown what his corner exit RPM was and he didn’t have a clue. I say if you don’t know that, how do you know the RPM anywhere else? So a buddy of mine mounted an old video camera in the car so we could see that tach.

It hit 6600 before he lifted for the corner. A far cry from 8k. When he looked at the video he says WOW, it sure FELT alike 8k.

It’s silly to look at full grown men defend being cheap as dirt building power. It makes no sense.

Most main cap fretting isn’t from detonation and never has been. That’s a myth. It comes from the damper not effectively controlling crankshaft harmonics.

I’ve taken apart enough broken stuff and nearly broken stuff to know just because the crank isn’t in pieces doesn’t mean the damper works.

Most guys are far more lucky than good.
 
RAMM said:
No one is arguing with you and I think I may speak for some others but We DONT' CARE. You do you and I'll do me. J.Rob
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LOL. Yep, my opinion caused you butthurt. I get that. Do what you do and if you don’t want differing opinions don’t put it out there.
 
yellow rose said:
I call bullshit on all these guys spinning 8000 plus on cast cranks. A forged crank will fracture before it fails and a cast crank will just fail.

I’ve heard all the stories even at the local circle tracks and drag strips. Had a guy swear he was hitting 8k half way down the main straight at a bull ring 1/4 dirt track. So I looked at his gearing and tire size and at best, even running in 3rd gear he might hit 7200, and his corner exit RPM would have had to be over 6k to get that.

So I asked the clown what his corner exit RPM was and he didn’t have a clue. I say if you don’t know that, how do you know the RPM anywhere else? So a buddy of mine mounted an old video camera in the car so we could see that tach.

It hit 6600 before he lifted for the corner. A far cry from 8k. When he looked at the video he says WOW, it sure FELT alike 8k.

It’s silly to look at full grown men defend being cheap as dirt building power. It makes no sense.

Most main cap fretting isn’t from detonation and never has been. That’s a myth. It comes from the damper not effectively controlling crankshaft harmonics.

I’ve taken apart enough broken stuff and nearly broken stuff to know just because the crank isn’t in pieces doesn’t mean the damper works.

Most guys are far more lucky than good.
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Any video proof of your **** going 8500? Don't reaaly care, either. Just PM, or post your little red X. RAMM is trying to share info with the GREATER masses here. Trying to EDUCATE some of us LITTLE people. Sorry for the muddle again, RAMM.
 
408 swinger said:
Any video proof of your **** going 8500? Don't reaaly care, either. Just PM, or post your little red X. RAMM is trying to share info with the GREATER masses here. Trying to EDUCATE some of us LITTLE people. Sorry for the muddle again, RAMM.
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Nope. You wouldn’t believe it anyway.
 
yellow rose said:
I call bullshit on all these guys spinning 8000 plus on cast cranks. A forged crank will fracture before it fails and a cast crank will just fail.

I’ve heard all the stories even at the local circle tracks and drag strips. Had a guy swear he was hitting 8k half way down the main straight at a bull ring 1/4 dirt track. So I looked at his gearing and tire size and at best, even running in 3rd gear he might hit 7200, and his corner exit RPM would have had to be over 6k to get that.

So I asked the clown what his corner exit RPM was and he didn’t have a clue. I say if you don’t know that, how do you know the RPM anywhere else? So a buddy of mine mounted an old video camera in the car so we could see that tach.

It hit 6600 before he lifted for the corner. A far cry from 8k. When he looked at the video he says WOW, it sure FELT alike 8k.

It’s silly to look at full grown men defend being cheap as dirt building power. It makes no sense.

Most main cap fretting isn’t from detonation and never has been. That’s a myth. It comes from the damper not effectively controlling crankshaft harmonics.

I’ve taken apart enough broken stuff and nearly broken stuff to know just because the crank isn’t in pieces doesn’t mean the damper works.

Most guys are far more lucky than good.
Click to expand...
You can call all the bullshit you want, doesn't make it not true. Like I said, my Dad started out running Callies forgings and broke several. Guy told him to swap to a stocker and he never broke a single one. And yes, he hit 8200 at the end of the straights during qualifying and 8000 during the heats and mains.
20201023_145238.jpg
 
Some progress and an attempt to get this thread back on track.

I wanted to get the pushrods ordered so I mounted a cylinder head with the PRW rockers on and checked max lift while I was there. I always find this interesting.

With .020" lash I/E the pushrod length works out to a really nice and nominal number of 7.500". This makes life easy.

Calculated and observed max lifts:

Intake lobe lift = .416" x 1.5 =. 624" - .020" lash = .588" actual lift for a net loss of .036" lift
Exh lobe lift = .399" x 1.5"=.5985"-.020" lash = .552" actual lift for a net loss of .046" lift

Food for thought. J.Rob

Prodcheck1.jpg


Liftcheck1.jpg
 
RAMM said:
Some progress and an attempt to get this thread back on track.

I wanted to get the pushrods ordered so I mounted a cylinder head with the PRW rockers on and checked max lift while I was there. I always find this interesting.

With .020" lash I/E the pushrod length works out to a really nice and nominal number of 7.500". This makes life easy.

Calculated and observed max lifts:

Intake lobe lift = .416" x 1.5 =. 624" - .020" lash = .588" actual lift for a net loss of .036" lift
Exh lobe lift = .399" x 1.5"=.5985"-.020" lash = .552" actual lift for a net loss of .046" lift

Food for thought. J.Rob

View attachment 1715633039

View attachment 1715633040
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Everyone i know who builds sbm knows this.
I was just saying this in another thread, and about 15 yrs ago in my own 410 thread on this site that anyone can look and read.
I had .533 out a .573 solid after the lash,push rod angle ,and rocker geometry ate it up.
That's .040 robbed.
Thats how the geometry on a sbm becomes so important...though youll always lose some with the 59*lifter abgle.angle
Always figure in the loss when choosing the cam in conjunction with the heads flow characteristics.
It does need echoed though.
 
RAMM said:
Some progress and an attempt to get this thread back on track.

I wanted to get the pushrods ordered so I mounted a cylinder head with the PRW rockers on and checked max lift while I was there. I always find this interesting.

With .020" lash I/E the pushrod length works out to a really nice and nominal number of 7.500". This makes life easy.

Calculated and observed max lifts:

Intake lobe lift = .416" x 1.5 =. 624" - .020" lash = .588" actual lift for a net loss of .036" lift
Exh lobe lift = .399" x 1.5"=.5985"-.020" lash = .552" actual lift for a net loss of .046" lift

Food for thought. J.Rob

View attachment 1715633039

View attachment 1715633040
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Any correction needed? How’s the sweep look?
 
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