Another 416 Stroker Build-Pic Heavy

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MOPAROFFICIAL said:
You will still have a loss due to the push rod angle with a sbm. Thats why they offer a 48* race block
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Understand completely. I’m just wondering if RAMM is going to move the shafts around to get it better.
 
TT5.9mag said:
Understand completely. I’m just wondering if RAMM is going to move the shafts around to get it better.
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Well I want to clear something up because it might be a little misleading to some reading it. The actual loss was .016 and .024 without figuring in the lash because thats an expected loss.

Its not horrible , the exh maybe ..but the intake isnt...next question would be are the stem heights even or off by .015 or so..
 
I don't consider any measurement of lift 'real' unless the actual springs (and pushrods) are used. Checking springs are so light they don't tell the true story.

Remember the SS/A Cudas, etc? I talked to Ray Barton years back on those engines and he told me if they assembled the engine with checking springs, it wouldn't turn over. The pistons hit the valves. Change to the 'real' springs and not only would it turn over, they'd be able to spin it over 8000RPM. A stiff spring will put all sorts of flex on a valvetrain that won't be seen with a light spring.

I also don't like pushrod measurements that don't include mention of the ball radius. A 7.500" pushrod with a 3/8 ball is longer than a 7.5000" pushrod with a 5/16 ball.
 
gregcon said:
I don't consider any measurement of lift 'real' unless the actual springs (and pushrods) are used. Checking springs are so light they don't tell the true story.

Remember the SS/A Cudas, etc? I talked to Ray Barton years back on those engines and he told me if they assembled the engine with checking springs, it wouldn't turn over. The pistons hit the valves. Change to the 'real' springs and not only would it turn over, they'd be able to spin it over 8000RPM. A stiff spring will put all sorts of flex on a valvetrain that won't be seen with a light spring.

I also don't like pushrod measurements that don't include mention of the ball radius. A 7.500" pushrod with a 3/8 ball is longer than a 7.5000" pushrod with a 5/16 ball.
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They measure end to end, the ball size is apart of that, and if the cup matches it should move the same amount.
Yes the spring will introduce the loading but the way you understood what ray was hoping he still remembered right leads to the conclusion of the .080 to .100 clearance "p/v" was used up by a light spring and that amount of flex in the pushrods was how they gained it.

.100 flex, damn. Time for better push rods.
 
If you measure a pushrod using a 5/16" ball but order new pushrods and they send them with 3/8 balls, the length won't be what you wanted...that's really all I was saying. I actually will only use a Manton checking pushrod when ordering Manton pushrods, and a Smith checking pushrod when ordering from Smith. Then, I mail them the checking pushrod and tell them to match it. That's overkill on a lot of engines, but it's also surprising to see how much variation can creep in otherwise.

As for the motion lost to flexing....when you are already buying the best pushrod there is, and in the largest size/stiffness, you run into a wall. Pushrod flex is exacerbated by angularity....a straight-shot pushrod won't bend as much as one that being pushed at an angle. There's a lot of math going on when you start including angles.
 
Regardless of who I’m buying from and who’s checking tool I’m using, I always just send them the checking pushrod. The difference in length is usually the method in which they measure. There are a few different ways to measure and only one way to get it right. Send it to em.
 
RammerJammer75 said:
You can call all the bullshit you want, doesn't make it not true. Like I said, my Dad started out running Callies forgings and broke several. Guy told him to swap to a stocker and he never broke a single one. And yes, he hit 8200 at the end of the straights during qualifying and 8000 during the heats and mains.
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LOL. Ok.
 
gregcon said:
If you measure a pushrod using a 5/16" ball but order new pushrods and they send them with 3/8 balls, the length won't be what you wanted...that's really all I was saying. I actually will only use a Manton checking pushrod when ordering Manton pushrods, and a Smith checking pushrod when ordering from Smith. Then, I mail them the checking pushrod and tell them to match it. That's overkill on a lot of engines, but it's also surprising to see how much variation can creep in otherwise.

As for the motion lost to flexing....when you are already buying the best pushrod there is, and in the largest size/stiffness, you run into a wall. Pushrod flex is exacerbated by angularity....a straight-shot pushrod won't bend as much as one that being pushed at an angle. There's a lot of math going on when you start including angles.
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To each his own


When i order push rods they ask what ends i want....beforehand i check the lifter I'm using and its cup specs for location to see if its 5/16,3/8 etc and then the rocker adjusters..then i tell them what end ball size and cup size.

There is so much more over looked than one realizes


Ive
 
Getting very very close now-Should be on the dyno next week. Heads are almost finished--at least the hard/labour intensive part. Pic of S.S. Huber hump work to get the flow to hang on above .430" The change doesn't look as obvious in the photo as it really is-with camera angles and all that. J.Rob

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SSA.jpg
 
RAMM said:
Getting very very close now-Should be on the dyno next week. Heads are almost finished--at least the hard/labour intensive part. Pic of S.S. Huber hump work to get the flow to hang on above .430" The change doesn't look as obvious in the photo as it really is-with camera angles and all that. J.Rob

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You going to leave the burr finish?? Every time I tried it I had issues with turbulence. So I finish in 60 grit and it calms it down.
 
yellow rose said:
You going to leave the burr finish?? Every time I tried it I had issues with turbulence. So I finish in 60 grit and it calms it down.
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Planning to leave the entire port except the S.S. as carbided. Just going to hit the S.S. with some 60grit and call it good. J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
Planning to leave the entire port except the S.S. as carbided. Just going to hit the S.S. with some 60grit and call it good. J.Rob
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Well...that means I need to take another shot on the burr finish. I’m going to call Chad Speir and talk to him. It’s either my technique suck buttermilk, or I’m not using the right carbide, or both. Probably the latter. I think it works, I just can’t get the results because I’m doing it wrong evidently.
 
Turbulence notwithstanding, I like a smoother finish, especially on the exhaust side, to reduce carbon buildup. If I were really intent on spending money, I'd get them teflon coated.
 
Forgot how tricky it is to work the ports to my liking when following the previous porter's work. Doing what I can with what I have. J.Rob

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Porting is all the same. I know that because I see countless heads being offered for sale at top dollar that are 'ported'. If porting weren't always the same, the sellers would state, "selling for cheap because God only knows what's been done to the ports"
 
gregcon said:
Porting is all the same. I know that because I see countless heads being offered for sale at top dollar that are 'ported'. If porting weren't always the same, the sellers would state, "selling for cheap because God only knows what's been done to the ports"
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"Porting is all the same"
You mean in regards to expectation?
There is only so much that can be done to a constrained uniform hole.

But i will point out they arent all the same.
There are circles of known porters who get x amount and then there are others who introduce more problems as well as a slight increase in flow like turbulence, like poor averages. Two guys can get 260 CFM at 500 lift let's say... but the .200-.300 can be 10-15 cfm less than one another too.

Tie a weight to only one ankle and then go sprint as fast as you can and tell me which leg/foot was fighting you more or less at the acceleration of the sprint or the top/end. Its crude and leman but you get the picture.
 
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I have some progress to report soon. Just having an email access issue at the moment with the pics and data. J.Rob
 
Ok , I was able to get it on the dyno and fired up today and not without some problems-mostly related to the customer's QFT 750 Annular. Why annular? I have no idea other than maybe the previous build seemed soft down low (which is weird for a 416) and he was told an annular booster carb would be the fix. I really don't know but I will try to find out. As suspected the annular boosters are over activated and this thing is super fat at the moment. It fired without issue and idles @ 1150 rpm with 10.5" vaccuum. It is very responsive to throttle input and should be with 240 psi in all cylinders showing on the compression gauge. It cranks 180 psi on the first pump. Tomorrow I get to dive into the carb and lash and possibly I can get ahold of his TTI large tube headers. That would be interesting to me. Hoping to improve on the numbers but so far I'm satisfied--it seems to be making about what I would expect for OEM heads. J.Rob

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Oh and I thought this was an interesting comparison between a J headed 408 with a .528 Mopar SFT and this 416 with ported X heads, 11.7 comp, SV and .600" SR camshaft on 91 pump/Av gas. Going to try straight Av gas tomorrow. J.Rob

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I like the numbers. I will be doing a similar build. But, the customer wants aluminum heads. I wonder what the Trick Flow heads would do for this, if anything?
 
What did the final flow numbers look like?
And, what are the cams specs?

240 psi...... I wouldn’t be brave enough to try and run that on straight pump gas.

The current headers are 1-3/4x3?
 
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