ChargedDart75
Well-Known Member
You and me both.
Another "Is Fuel Injection a Worthwhile Upgrade?" Question
- Thread starter harrisonm
- Start date
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70chall440
Mopar or No Car...
My hat is off to you guys who take long trips in classic cars. I know they can do it, but I would be too paranoid about something happening to the car along the way. I have other cars for things like long trips.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
No one ever took long trips or drove cross country before EFI. Just didn’t happen. Unreal.
70chall440
Mopar or No Car...
Just had to chime in.... you are the one who made the statement about someone saying you said something you didn't yet here you are.... perhaps your reading comprehension skills are challenged so I will clarify my statement; in modern times such as now my classic cars are worth much more than they were back in the day, therefore I would would not want to risk them on a long trip. But you know exactly what I am talking about but your inner dick just has to be heard.
We built the inside of our '77 Shorty Van just for traveling. Full size bed in the back, some electrical if we have a place to plug in... I love van'n...
70chall440
Mopar or No Car...
We built the inside of our '77 Shorty Van just for traveling. Full size bed in the back, some electrical if we have a place to plug in... I love van'n...
Thats cool, I remember when van were in, everyone had one and they were wild.
You're drifting, boys. What should I put in my 408 inch small block. Sniper, or my QF 750 on an RPM airgap. 10:1 solid roller camshaft, with the TF 190's. Kicking the anthill.
ChargedDart75
Well-Known Member
We don't know want you're going to do in your shaggin wagon. lolWe built the inside of our '77 Shorty Van just for traveling. Full size bed in the back, some electrical if we have a place to plug in... I love van'n...
ChargedDart75
Well-Known Member
Get a dual quad intake and run both.
Bluecuda340
Well-Known Member
I built a megasquirt MS3X system with LS coils for my car in 2015. I let it run the ignition only for 2015 then moved the fuel side over in 2016. I haven't even thought about a carb since then. I love it, it drives better, it idles better, it cold starts and idles on its own etc.
What I really love is the tuning side of it. I constantly make tweaks and try changes I never bothered with before EFI, because its just a keystroke or two to make the changes. I can hammer in more passes at a test and tune because I don't have to get any tools out. If the track is super busy I can just go back into the lanes after a pass, download a log while the engine cools and review or make changes without even taking my belts off.
I don't know how many miles I have on the system but it has done 3 drag weeks and lots of local driving. It is not something I worry about.
With the megasquirt stuff you have to work a little harder but you save a ton of money. My ECU package is comparible to the Holley Dominator system from a feature standpoint but I have less than $1000 into the ECU and wiring harness. Is it more work, yes! Did I save thousands, yes!
What I really love is the tuning side of it. I constantly make tweaks and try changes I never bothered with before EFI, because its just a keystroke or two to make the changes. I can hammer in more passes at a test and tune because I don't have to get any tools out. If the track is super busy I can just go back into the lanes after a pass, download a log while the engine cools and review or make changes without even taking my belts off.
I don't know how many miles I have on the system but it has done 3 drag weeks and lots of local driving. It is not something I worry about.
With the megasquirt stuff you have to work a little harder but you save a ton of money. My ECU package is comparible to the Holley Dominator system from a feature standpoint but I have less than $1000 into the ECU and wiring harness. Is it more work, yes! Did I save thousands, yes!
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yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Just had to chime in.... you are the one who made the statement about someone saying you said something you didn't yet here you are.... perhaps your reading comprehension skills are challenged so I will clarify my statement; in modern times such as now my classic cars are worth much more than they were back in the day, therefore I would would not want to risk them on a long trip. But you know exactly what I am talking about but your inner dick just has to be heard.
That’s my bad. I quoted the wrong post. Didn’t even see that until just now so I apologize.
BTW...you will be sure when my inner “dick” comes out. It won’t be as nice as my original post was.
And FWIW, I read your post and was in agreement with it. I got exactly what you meant. And I still agree with it.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Only you can make that decision. IMO you should do the EFI but ONLY IF you are 100% committed to learning it. In fact, no matter what you chose you should be 100% committed to learning it.
IF you absolutely have to have it so you can hit the key and have it idle like a new car than it’s EFI. If you don’t mind spending 60 seconds before dropping the car into gear than the carb will work.
IF you don’t like to get fuel on your hands then it’s EFI. If you hate wiring (God knows I hate it) and routing all that crap then maybe EFI isn’t for you.
IF you are willing to pull the distributor several times to finish the advance curve (you should also be using a vacuum advance if at all possible) and learn how the distributor and carb either work together or hate each other...than carb. If not, than EFI.
It doesn’t really matter what you chose. It matters what effort you are willing to put into it.
6PakBee
Well-Known Member
You think that's bad, look at this eBay item. 1969 AMC Scrambler Rambler Factory Sun Tachometer ST-635 OEM AMC Hurst WORKING!! | eBay
Eat'n, sleep'n, and sit down in your chair and get ready for this......
Travel'n down the road at 65 mph with the cruise control on !! LOL..
Don't let your mind travel beyond that !
CHEAP - Installed Bed/Carpet '77 Dodge Van - YouTube
I have installed and driven a couple of efi systems, and honestly, if I hadn't had an idea of how to tune carbs and distributers, I would have been totally lost with the efi.
My first was an accel gen7, around 2000 or 2001. I did it mainly to try something new, as I already had a well tuned holley carb. (I had a much bigger budget back then...)
I had messed with that holley to the point I was getting an average of 17 mpg driving just over an hour to work and back. After a LOT of work with the efi I averaged right at 18 mpg the same trip. Cold starts were better in the winter with the efi, but, I always managed to get to work on time when I was running the holley.
I still have that gen 7 setup sitting in a box, I may run it again someday since I already have it.. I have gained a little knowledge since I last run it and would like to try some things that would probably make it do even better.
The other system I am familiar with is an ez efi port system on my wife's 3g hemi. I would describe it as pretty good, just not enough user adjustability as my old gen7 had. It was much cheaper though, and starts like a new car, which is good for my wife.
My advice when tuning a carb or efi and using a wideband, is to NOT get caught up in trying to make it run at the a/f ratio you think it should run at. Like the old days before we had o2 sensors, you have to give it the fuel and timing it wants/needs.
So is efi an upgrade? Maybe, but if you can't tune a carb and distributer, you may fight an efi system too, even a self learning one.
One last note and not to side track, but a couple of other members and I have been discussing a possible meet up ahead of a certain "race" this year. The trip for me will be about 3 1/2 hours. and honestly I am not worried at all about driving a certain 1967 yellow truck, but for the pre-race meet up I would drive the 03 Ram, and I know it still has the original in tank fuel pump, now THAT worries me a little...
My first was an accel gen7, around 2000 or 2001. I did it mainly to try something new, as I already had a well tuned holley carb. (I had a much bigger budget back then...)
I had messed with that holley to the point I was getting an average of 17 mpg driving just over an hour to work and back. After a LOT of work with the efi I averaged right at 18 mpg the same trip. Cold starts were better in the winter with the efi, but, I always managed to get to work on time when I was running the holley.
I still have that gen 7 setup sitting in a box, I may run it again someday since I already have it.. I have gained a little knowledge since I last run it and would like to try some things that would probably make it do even better.
The other system I am familiar with is an ez efi port system on my wife's 3g hemi. I would describe it as pretty good, just not enough user adjustability as my old gen7 had. It was much cheaper though, and starts like a new car, which is good for my wife.
My advice when tuning a carb or efi and using a wideband, is to NOT get caught up in trying to make it run at the a/f ratio you think it should run at. Like the old days before we had o2 sensors, you have to give it the fuel and timing it wants/needs.
So is efi an upgrade? Maybe, but if you can't tune a carb and distributer, you may fight an efi system too, even a self learning one.
One last note and not to side track, but a couple of other members and I have been discussing a possible meet up ahead of a certain "race" this year. The trip for me will be about 3 1/2 hours. and honestly I am not worried at all about driving a certain 1967 yellow truck, but for the pre-race meet up I would drive the 03 Ram, and I know it still has the original in tank fuel pump, now THAT worries me a little...
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Truer words have not been spoken
It will be a Holley HP system with a dual sync distributor. So sequential port injection and timing control as well as some limited data logging. It is drag race only application with a short exhaust system so I'll have it open loop up until 2000 rpm and then go closed loop. The car runs down the track between 5000 and 7500 so it should run okay. Might take some work to get it to run clean on the two step and to launch hard but I'm not worried about WOT. We'll see how it goes. I've tuned 8 stacks before but not this Hilborn setup. The Hilborn setup is brand new so who knows what we'll run into.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
The one I did I had to tune it in throttle position only. I had to get away from map. The rate of change in the map sensor was so incredibly fast that part throttle was difficult. Please start a thread when you do it and document it.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
The only issue will be the stacks will limit power. Is your customer already running stacks with MFI or is this whole thing new?
Tough to provide an answer without knowing more. The Sniper has the potential of working much better than the carb but it isn't a bolt on and go kind of thing. The Sniper requires some expertise to get it dialed in correctly. If it doesn't get dialed in properly then you'll be unhappy. I don't recommend EFI to people who aren't willing to make it work. The current generation of EFI conversions requires an "early adopter" mentality. The next generation of EFI should be more consumer friendly.
goldduster318
Overzealous Car Modifier
What are you doing with it (street, race, drive it a lot, only when it's nice?), what for a transmission/converter/axle and what are you comfortable with regarding tuning and ignition systems? Sounds like you could have some serious hardware below your induction setup. Was a little surprised to read the air gap, usually that's your more "street" focused manifold or a general use one on a stock stroke engine.
Forged 4" molnar crank, forged H beam rods, forged Icon pistons, around 10:1 compression, TF 190 heads. Leaning towards a solid roller cam and high quality valvetrain. Going in a stock appearing 70 Swinger 340. I already have a QF 750 SS with the annular boosters and a brand new RPM airgap. I can buy a new TF single plane if needed. Car will be 80% street driven. Rebuilt Pat Blaise A727 and a 3000 RPM converter. 8 3/4 rear with SG 3.55 rear. I wired 747s for 22 years, so wiring is not a problem. I've tuned carbs for 40 years with varying success, so I have some knowledge. TTI stepped headers NIB, and a NIB MSD E-curve distributer. I've been saving parts and money for 10 years. I've had some recent serious medical problems, and retired. I want to finish my motor and install and RUN it before I kick off. I sure didn't mean to start a civil war with my questions, just some qualified opinions. Please lighten up, Brothers.
My son is graduating with a degree in computer science this spring, and I can do some laptop calibrations, so that's not a problem, either. I even have my own O'scope, so I'm pretty good with the digital stuff, too.
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