Another Mopar Off My Bucket List - Barracuda Fastback

[1967 'cuda]

The front seat wasn't hard to unbolt. The difficult part was trying to wrangle it out of the car by myself without marring the upholstery. With limited usable floor space in the garage I decided to rest it on the trunk lid for now.

With the seat out I've finally got enough room to lay under the dash. The shifter competes with my left shoulder when I try to get comfortable. I put a blanket down to keep from damaging the carpet with any dirt or grease.

I need to become a better person. If I don't I'm surely going to hell. After tearing into the Roadrunner dash wiring I've realized that there's a good chance that I could be made to work on under dash wiring for all of eternity. (it's too late for the engineers that designed this setup. - Those sadists must be down there already.)

I didn't use Chrysler or Chilton's manuals when I dove into this project. It's been awhile since I've gotten into a B-body dash dis-assembly but it's pretty straight forward. I do have a copy of the Chrysler manual on my computer that I do use and will be checking it when it comes to the wiring diagram.

The aftermarket radio, tach, and fuel injection wiring didn't make this job any easier. I had installed those items without removing the cluster so the wires for them weren't routed the nicest. I may re-route them now so that they can be bundled better.

So far I haven't found any issues with the wiring that I've inspected. There aren't any places worn bare or rubbing against things (such as the wiper arm assemblies). The only damaged wires appear to be the few inches of the pink and black wires coming off of the headlight switch.

I'll keep looking. After spending this much effort to take things apart I won't start putting anything back together until I'm sure I've found the problem. I'm not looking forward to removing the electrical tape that wraps the harness. It's not very likely that the wires will be bad beneath the tape but I want to make sure.

After visually inspecting all of the wiring I'll begin testing to see where the circuit is grounding out.



View attachment IMG_4399.jpg

View attachment IMG_4400.jpg

View attachment IMG_4401.jpg

View attachment IMG_4402.jpg

View attachment IMG_4403.jpg

View attachment IMG_4404A.jpg

 

[1967 'cuda]

I was fully prepared to strip off the electrical tape that bundles the harness, but the wiring all looked so pristine that I had a last second change of heart. During inspection I could see that the majority of the wiring that I'd be unwrapping had nothing to do with the light circuit. Instead I focused on the schematics.

As I isolated power from each wire I was able to determine that the pink (power supply) wire that fed the light switch was not the issue. The damaged section of the pink wire seems to have been caused by the 2 black wires that it lay against. One of those 2 black wires feeds the tail lights and the problem still exists when it's disconnected downstream. The other black wire runs to the dash light dimmer switch. Originally I had ignored that second black wire because I still had the problem with the dimmer switch disconnected.

The schematic showed the second black wire junctions with a yellow wire with a black tracer. That yellow/black wire is part of a headlight warning buzzer circuit. The 2 wires (black and yellow/black) are tied together on the female plug that attaches to the dash light dimmer switch. When I separated the yellow/black wire from the black wire my problem went away.

With the instrument cluster, ash tray, and glove box removed it's much easier to see most of the wiring. - The dash frame still obstructs some of your view and the shifter handle prevents easy access to the wiring that has to be accessed from below. Last night I searched for the headlight warning buzzer but couldn't find it. As far as I know this car does not have one.

Today I'll resume tracing the yellow/black wire. Maybe there is a warning buzzer and I missed it. - Or maybe the opposing end of that wire is contacting ground.

 

[SNKEBIT]

Oh, you're getting close!!! I don't think that car had a buzzer. :coffee2:

 

[1967 'cuda]

Oh, you're getting close!!! I don't think that car had a buzzer. :coffee2:

I don't have the build sheet but even if I did I know the car has had modifications. According to what I've read the buzzer was available for it. The wiring harness does sport the wires for one.

I do know that the car did not have a factory tach when it came from the factory despite the fact it has a 4-speed. (it does have a new tic toc tach now that has never been hooked up) It was also a stripe delete car.

When the previous owner rewired the car he may have routed some of the wires for the buzzer into the circuitry whether or not a buzzer exists. I'm not sure if I can leave that yellow/black wire disconnected on the one end without having problems with whatever else it may be routed through.

I was using 3 different schematics to help trace down the wiring. None of the 3 were 100% accurate with the wiring that's in the car. The one that was supposed to be specific for the Roadrunner lacked the grey wire showing the tach hookup. I still focused on that schematic the most but had to reference my schematic for '68 Chargers to find out what that grey wire was for.

I worked as an electrician on industrial equipment in factories for years but I'm weak with automotive wiring diagrams. I'm used to working with large blueprints that were easier to follow than these small ones that are on several pages. I'm not used to working with schematics that show devices that may not actually be there either.

 

[1967 'cuda]

My head hurts. I'm burnt out from searching for answers on the schematics. It gets frustrating when the diagrams show you a device, you spend a ton of time peering through the openings in the dash (with a flashlight) trying to find it, - and it's not there.

I don't care if there's no key buzzer or headlight warning buzzer. But I wish the schematics I'm using would reflect how the car should be wired without them. Maybe I DO have to use the one for the '68 Charger. I don't think it showed the buzzers. My head is swimming.

I took a break from the wiring to work on the front seat. It didn't need much. The cable that ties the locking levers on the two seat track slides had too much slack in it and the grease on those slides was really gummy. They should adjust forward and back like they're supposed to now.

It's little things such as a seat that is difficult to position or windows that don't want to roll up and down that can make a car seem crappy to drive. It's easy to ignore these kinds of problems because it's not essential to fix them. But eventually you end up driving a rattle trap and nothing seems to work.


View attachment IMG_4405.jpg

View attachment IMG_4406.jpg

View attachment IMG_4407.jpg

View attachment IMG_4408.jpg

 

[Abodybomber]

Following wiring problems, is a *****. A friend of mine, automotive wiring, is his specialty.(35 years,plus). He is not a high profit guy, but has steady shop work. Wiring drives me crazy,too. The little things comment,ring true. It's part of owning ,a vintage massaged hot rod.

 

[1967 'cuda]

Following wiring problems, is a *****. A friend of mine, automotive wiring, is his specialty.(35 years,plus). He is not a high profit guy, but has steady shop work. Wiring drives me crazy,too. The little things comment,ring true. It's part of owning ,a vintage massaged hot rod.

:idea1:

I don't suppose you could talk your buddy into taking a winter vacation to Nebraska? - Tell him that warm weather and sunny skies are over-rated.

 

[Abodybomber]

:idea1:

I don't suppose you could talk your buddy into taking a winter vacation to Nebraska? - Tell him that warm weather and sunny skies are over-rated.

I can ask John,need to see to see him, anyway . Wouldn't count on it... will ,try...

 

[1967 'cuda]

Thanks Abodybomber, but I wasn't serious when I suggested your buddy should come down. - Don't get me wrong. - It'd be great. I wish I did have an automotive wiring expert buddy close by.

If everything goes right I should have this thing put back together tomorrow. I went ahead and checked all the dash bulbs tonight to make sure they worked. - No sense waiting until after the panel is back in place. I noticed a lot of corrosion on the bulbs so I went ahead and smeared dielectric grease on all electrical connections.

 

[1967 'cuda]

It's taking me longer to put everything back together than I thought. I kept finding things that needed attention.

There were 3 dash bulbs that were bad, one of the twist in bulb sockets needed replacing and it was missing one of the push in light sockets. It's a good thing I kept one of the old wiring harnesses around for parts.

I found a yellow wire that runs into the steering column that had never been connected. After tracing it out I saw that it went to a light that illuminates the flasher switch. I tied it back into the harness so that it functions now.

The glove box door never closed properly without having to slam it a few times. After some inspection I discovered that the wire latch was out of place because it had been broken. I fixed it so the door closes properly now.

We're using an aftermarket tachometer that is mounted in front of the instrument cluster's factory tach. When we'd installed it we kept the wires so short that you couldn't remove the cluster without cutting the wires that fed it. I rewired it so that we'll be able to work on the dash in the future without cutting any wires.

There was a fair amount of corrosion on most of the electrical connections. I cleaned them off with a scuff pad and applied dielectric grease to all connecting points.

I've got the instrument cluster back in the car. I will probably order a new dash dimmer switch. The one that's in there is a little wonky. The rheostat winding must have corrosion on it still because it has a few dead spots in it when you adjust brightness.

The glove box assembly is back together.

I still need to re-install the ashtray. the sill plates, kick panels, and front seat.

I don't want to put the door panels back on until I get the top stop brackets for those windows.

It's 5 a.m. and time to call it a night. Maybe I'll get it finished after I get back up.

 

[1967 'cuda]

I wasn't as productive yesterday as I wanted to be. I did manage to get some work done before one of my buddies stopped over asking if I could give him a hand. He'd purchased a 340 off of Craigslist and needed to pick it up. We loaded up my cherry picker and headed across town.

We could have been back in 20 minutes but it just ain't right to skip the obligatory bullshit session when picking up Mopar parts. After checking out the seller's '73 383 Challenger and '71 340 Challenger we headed back to my garage.

Ray (my buddy that just bought the 340) doesn't own a computer. He'd heard that the NHRA had changed some of the horsepower indexes and asked me to check online to verify. He runs stock class with whichever car he has that is most likely to be most competitive. He's got a pair of Chargers (68 & 70), a pair of A12 Superbees (69s), a Roadrunner (69), and a GTX (71) to choose from. After cruising the 'net for awhile Ray helped me wrangle the Roadrunner's front seat back into the car. It was close to midnight and I decided to put off the rest of the work for another day.

I finished everything I had left on my list this morning, but when I tried to fire the car up I discovered that I'd run the battery down while I was doing all of the troubleshooting on the lighting system. So while the battery is being charged I checked the front wheel bearings. One of the dust caps had come off before and I wanted to make sure everything was OK. - Nothing wrong that I could find. It seems as though the two dust caps were just a bit undersized. I flared the ends out a little so they'd fit tighter.

 

[1967 'cuda]

I just got back from test driving the Roadrunner again. It ran perfect. - No 'hiccups'. But not all is well. The factory water temp and fuel gauge aren't registering now. I guess I'll have to dive back under the dash to see what I screwed up. Joy oh joy, - it was a b*tch with the seats out. It sure ain't gonna be any fun with them back in.

The computer's temperature gauge was still working and I've been pretty religious about monitoring the various readouts. It showed the temperature hovering between 195' and 198'. While that's not hot enough to worry me, it is warmer than I'd seen this engine run before. The coolant level was down slightly so I added some antifreeze to the radiator. When I made the last few test drives it was sub-freezing outside. Today it's a balmy 38'. I'll have to continue to monitor it.

I barely got back home when the UPS truck showed up. My son's itching to see work resumed on his Charger so he's been ordering parts and having them sent here. Today there was a large box from Speedway Motors. It feels like Christmas when you don't know what's inside.

New 1/2" aluminum fuel line. We had discussed the necessity of planning out our fuel and brake lines BEFORE welding on the sub-frame connectors. I guess I'll be working on the fuel lines first when the Charger comes back inside.

Yesterday a notebook showed up in the mail. It's supposed to help document everything that's being done on the project. There are fields to be filled out where you record virtually every piece of information about your car. There are even places to record every part number, vendor, paint codes, etc... I wasn't impressed when he first told me he was ordering a notebook, but after seeing this thing I wish I had one for each of our cars. It's 26 pages long and designed to be large enough to read but small enough to fit in a glove box.

This book is really cool but I hate to see what it looks like after my greasy fingers are done with it.




View attachment IMG_4411.jpg

View attachment IMG_4412.jpg

View attachment IMG_4410.jpg

View attachment IMG_4413.jpg

View attachment IMG_4414.jpg

View attachment IMG_4416.jpg

View attachment IMG_4418.jpg

View attachment IMG_4419.jpg

 

[1967 'cuda]

I DETEST DASH WIRING!! It's been really frustrating.

I started out with problems with the water temperature and fuel level gauges. Now the oil pressure gauge has stopped registering. There is a 5 prong connection on the dash's circuit board that sends the signals to the gauges. I have had it on and off several times. It will only attach one way so I know it's not backwards.

When I'd had the cluster out I'd cleaned the 5 pins and coated them with dielectric grease. None of the pins appeared damaged. All of the online research I've done seems to point me in the direction of the voltage regulator that's attached to the circuit board. The dash framework prevents access to it while the cluster is in the car.

I am still confused. On the one hand, I've read that when the regulator fails, - none of those 3 gauges will function but my oil pressure continued to work after the fuel and temp gauges stopped. NOW that all 3 are out it would seem to be the regulator. But before the oil pressure gauge stopped was it still because of a bad regulator? I've also read that a bad regulator will fry the gauges. I sure hope that's not the case.

I guess I'm about to pull the cluster out again. I'll rob parts from the Charger if I have to.

 

[1967 'cuda]

FUDGE! CRAP! AARGH! I'm trying my best not to have the moderators censor what I really feel like saying.

I so dread the idea of tearing the dash apart again that I decided I better make d*mn sure I won't have to do it again.

I was scoping out the cluster we've had sitting around for the Charger and I'm considering swapping out the whole thing. I'd applied white faces to the gauges a long time ago and I don't think I can remove them. As I recall the black faces had flaking paint. It's been years ago so I don't know how accurate my memory is about them. I do know that we never tested the gauges to see if they worked.

We hadn't had a tach with the Charger's cluster so I'd fitted an aftermarket one in the hole. It does have a built in shift light. One of the reasons we'd gone with white faces on these gauges was to match the tach. - The other was to increase visibility.

The good news is that last week my son told me that he ordered new back lit gauges for the Charger. He had decided not to use the ones that are here.

You can see how much brighter the white faces look compared with the black. If I switch clusters, I'll eliminate the other aftermarket tach that hangs in front of the factory tic-toc-tach. I know that these tic-toc-tachs are a valuable option but my son is partial to the built in shift light.

View attachment IMG_4421.jpg

View attachment IMG_4424.jpg

View attachment IMG_4427.jpg

View attachment IMG_4428.jpg

 

[1967 'cuda]

The replacement gauges that Spencer bought were from Dakota Digital. They are a direct fit replacement for the factory cluster. The vendor wouldn't ship to an address other than the one associated with his bank card so they shipped it to him in Iowa.

View attachment prd_zm_939.jpg

View attachment prd_ssh_2534_1461.jpg

View attachment prd_ssh_2534_1463.jpg

 

[needsaresto]

Wow,you have my sympathy when it come to electrical ghosts. My crappyG.M p/u has been down for a while due to no brake lights/turn sigs or b/u light. All seemed to start one day when there was a short in the driver door power acc harness. It ground out the whole system,truck just died and I needed a jump start,then a new battery,then new tail light curcuit boards,brake light bulbs etc etc. Seems a power surge burned up a lot of stuff.

I had to dig up my multimeter and test light,then go to work in -5 C. Fun fun fun. Just shoot me now PLEASE!!

 

[1967 'cuda]

Wow,you have my sympathy when it come to electrical ghosts. My crappyG.M p/u has been down for a while due to no brake lights/turn sigs or b/u light. All seemed to start one day when there was a short in the driver door power acc harness. It ground out the whole system,truck just died and I needed a jump start,then a new battery,then new tail light curcuit boards,brake light bulbs etc etc. Seems a power surge burned up a lot of stuff.

I had to dig up my multimeter and test light,then go to work in -5 C. Fun fun fun. Just shoot me now PLEASE!!

Boy, it sucks to be us. :banghead:

I've been trying to do my research online when troubleshooting automotive wiring. I may not know what the hell I'm doing but I'd be even more lost without help from others. There seems to be a lot of others experiencing electrical issues. You aren't always sure if the advice you follow is legit. Hopefully it won't turn into a case of the blind leading the blind.

Sometimes the concept of invisible 'flowing electrons' making things work seems like magic to me. - And these problems seem like a form of Bad Mojo.

 

[Abodybomber]

Boy, it sucks to be us. :banghead:

I've been trying to do my research online when troubleshooting automotive wiring. I may not know what the hell I'm doing but I'd be even more lost without help from others. There seems to be a lot of others experiencing electrical issues. You aren't always sure if the advice you follow is legit. Hopefully it won't turn into a case of the blind leading the blind.

Sometimes the concept of invisible 'flowing electrons' making things work seems like magic to me. - And these problems seem like a form of Bad Mojo.

You work well,with Bad Mojo. This is where you use ,your multi tasking skills. Your ability to bounce different projects, will help nullify the dash stress. Use that log book,great idea.

 

[1967 'cuda]

You work well,with Bad Mojo. This is where you use ,your multi tasking skills. Your ability to bounce different projects, will help nullify the dash stress. Use that log book,great idea.

Thanks Abodybomber.

I'm starting to like the term 'Bad Mojo'. I think it would make a good name for a drag car. Maybe I'll stash that one away in my head for the funnycar some day.

I'm tempted to buy some of those log books for my other cars. I'm such a cheapskate that I'll probably just use them as a guide to follow in a 25 cent Walmart notebook rather than shell out $25 for the cool version. My son is not as tight with his pocketbook as I am.

 

[Abodybomber]

Thanks Abodybomber.

I'm starting to like the term 'Bad Mojo'. I think it would make a good name for a drag car. Maybe I'll stash that one away in my head for the funnycar some day.

I'm tempted to buy some of those log books for my other cars. I'm such a cheapskate that I'll probably just use them as a guide to follow in a 25 cent Walmart notebook rather than shell out $25 for the cool version. My son is not as tight with his pocketbook as I am.

I would not state " cheap skate" , you have more business sense. It's not your money ,to spend. Sorry, if offensive.

 

[1967 'cuda]

I would not state " cheap skate" , you have more business sense. It's not your money ,to spend. Sorry, if offensive.

No offense taken at all. As much as I mess with these old cars for the love of them, I do try to approach the projects with a concern about the amount of money spent. I used to believe that anyone could build a first class show car without getting upside down on them. Televised auctions of Barret Jackson & Mecum give the impression that all these cars are worth a fortune. The real truth is that most cars are sold for less than what an owner puts in them. If you farm out a lot of the work you're much more likely to lose money.

I'm not saying that everybody loses money. If you can buy a car cheap enough and do most of the work on it yourself you can make a profit. The vast majority of the money made is by the places that sell parts and the shops that do restorations for others. Even the guys that do their own work and don't lose money have to ignore the value of the time they invest or be satisfied with paying themselves a few bucks an hour.

It's unlikely that I'll ever stumble upon a cheap A12 car or Hemi Superbird again like I did when I was young. It might be cool to have one but their values go to hell if you don't have a numbers matching car and you have to keep them stock. The more miles you put on those cars, - the more their values drop.

I'd rather build cars that I can personalize and enjoy driving. When the day comes that I need to part with one I hope I don't take a bath on the sale.

 

[SNKEBIT]

It's unlikely that I'll ever stumble upon a cheap A12 car or Hemi Superbird again like I did when I was young. It might be cool to have one but their values go to hell if you don't have a numbers matching car and you have to keep them stock. The more miles you put on those cars, - the more their values drop.

I'd rather build cars that I can personalize and enjoy driving. When the day comes that I need to part with one I hope I don't take a bath on the sale.

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep on building!!!!:burnout:

 

[needsaresto]

Lol,it brings to mind another term that might mean much the same as Bad Mojo.
"Black Cloud"..

 

[1967 'cuda]

It's a good thing that there is such a thing as bad luck or else I would have no luck at all.

You remember the movie Dirty Mary Crazy Larry. Just when it appears that there's nothing but smooth sailing ahead...

Everything was finally coming together on the Roadrunner's wiring issues. I had managed to pull the cluster back out. I switched over the gauges and re-installed it in the car. I started it up and all the gauges seemed to be working. I buttoned everything back up. - Keep in mind I'd had to remove the cluster, the ashtray assembly, and drop the steering column. Even though it was night it was as though I could hear birds singing in the background.

I should have checked the dash lights. The dash dimmer switch was bad. I struggled for an hour trying to replace it with the cluster inside the dash before giving up and pulling things back apart. I cleaned up the rheostat on our original switch and put it in.

At this point I should have known better. I should have checked the wiper switch. Well, you can see where this is heading...:banghead:

We've had a warming trend here over the past few days but I wouldn't say it's warm. It's an improvement. Maybe I could concentrate better if I could feel my feet.

View attachment p1.jpg

View attachment halloween1.jpg

View attachment frozen-jack.jpg

 

[1967 'cuda]

I appreciate the information that I find on the various threads on FABO and other sites. There are a lot of guys out there that could be writing 'HOW TO' books with the knowledge they have.

As I was reading through some of my own posts on this thread I realized I could write a 'HOW NOT TO' book on several topics. That having been said, I finally completed my dash troubleshooting. Success at last!

In my last post I wrote about having discovered that the wiper and dimmer switches were bad on the replacement cluster I'd installed. As much as a pain in the *ss as it was to dismantle the dash over and over, it got easier over time. The final problem that I ran into was a return of dash light problems. The 3 bulbs that connected to the circuit board wouldn't light. It turned out to be light corrosion beneath the attaching screws. After removing the screws and cleaning the areas beneath the screws I finally had light. It may not have been necessary but I ran a pair of auxiliary ground wires to those spots for insurance.

During the daytime all of the gauges are more visible. The only gauge that is easy to read at night is the tach. The lights on the rest are awfully dim. I had cleaned all of the bulbs and the housing so that dirt shouldn't be blocking the light. I'll probably install some L.E.D. bulbs before my son picks up the car. I'm already running them in all of my other vehicles and really like the increased brightness. I guess I'll hit eBay tonight before I go to bed.

.


View attachment IMG_4433.jpg

View attachment IMG_4434.jpg

View attachment IMG_4435.jpg