anybody running indys or stage 6 in a duster ?

[drgnrydr]

Im wanting a set of alum heads for a 440 & going in a 73 duster that I am going to drive on the street some . Dont want edlebrocks unless its my only choice . I have manual brakes & manual steering . Thanks much ! Any pics greatly appreciated

 

[crackedback]

Why not Ede Victors if you want a really thumper?

 

[moper]

The EZs are the best choice without having to limit header choice too much.

 

[gearjammer340]

Ran some stage 6s on a bone stock 440 shortblock pistons way in the hole,auto,3.91,557 mp solid cam,ran 11.70s before I popped a headgasket trying to run as much timing as I knew that combo wanted....been 3 iron head 440s and one iron headed 383 since then in that car(74 duster)

We have a set of performer rpms on a 11-1 comp 440 in a 67 dart, running like ***.....major *** it ran 10.90s on pump gas, getting that car together today and tomorrow with alot o f problems fixxed,like the flaring every time it shifted(still ran fast with edelbrocks don't count them out, they work)

We have a set of indy sr heads on a 12-1 499 cu in motor running mid 9s in a
68 dart post and it still has a flat tappet camshaft in it.

How fast are you wanting to run? In an A-body 906s will get you in the 11s(maybe some of you have run faster, our best with stock 906s was an 11.80@3300lbs with a sft, and shumaker tri-y headers.)

Quick and dirty ie cheap, early 440,292 509 mp cam,340 converter,fenderwell headers,and 3.91s,that'd be a fun street car other than it wouldnt turn very sharp lol, add a little spray and you'd be running allright.
Jr.

 

[drgnrydr]

thx gearjammer , I appreciate the info . Id like to be in the low 10s . I'll be running a 512 stroker

 

[haplo555]

here is a pict of motor in 72 demon 512/400

 

[drgnrydr]

nice , care to share more info on the motor & a few more pic's

 

[womanator]

Mid 10 sec 440 stock eddy heads mild tune.
Low ten sec 1/4 mile with hard tune pump gas engine off the juice.

 

[needsaresto]

Heres the stage VI heads,but not installed! Still brand new in fact.Sorry,not for sale..

WhenI first thought about buying these heads,BJR was trying to
"help" me with the purchase.Told me they needed special rockers,would run 16:1 compression,all in an effort to let him have them.

I guess he was really just trying to "help" himself,lol...

Turns out they use standard rockers and will yeild a perfect 10.5:1 with the right piston.Of course you can also go much much higher. 14:1 is not uncommon in a race car with these heads. Niether is 16:1 from my understanding.

Flow potential is over 380 cfm. Not many heads that will touch that.There is someone over at big block dart who has his cnc ported to the max and is flowing almost 390 with the big valve version. Mine are the 2.14 type with the small 75 cc chamber.

OOTB is maybe 300. Simple rework of the guides/bowls will yield 330,right where mine are.

800 h.p potential...

It funny that I saw your post just as I was about to do one exactly about what I finally discovered. Lol,I guess I need to pick up a book and read it more often....:read2:

 

[JohnRR]

Flow potential is over 380 cfm. Not many heads that will touch that.There is someone over at big block dart who has his cnc ported to the max and is flowing almost 390 with the big valve version. Mine are the 2.14 type with the small 75 cc chamber.

OOTB is maybe 300. Simple rework of the guides/bowls will yield 330,right where mine are.

800 h.p potential...

Unless something changed over at MP you'll be hard pressed to see 260 cfm OOTB with stage 6's unless they are Champman CNC version, hopefully the person that did that port work is checking EVERYTHING about those heads , chamber volume , machining , it's not uncommon to have the dowel pin holes in the wrong location. Don't get me wrong , I like the stage 6's , have used them in a build and have the non raised port versions going on a build I have but MP's quaility control suxs ..

To the op , 512 stroker , Indy EZ would be a very good choice .

 

[needsaresto]

Unless something changed over at MP you'll be hard pressed to see 260 cfm OOTB with stage 6's unless they are Champman CNC version, hopefully the person that did that port work is checking EVERYTHING about those heads , chamber volume , machining , it's not uncommon to have the dowel pin holes in the wrong location. Don't get me wrong , I like the stage 6's , have used them in a build and have the non raised port versions going on a build I have but MP's quaility control suxs ..

To the op , 512 stroker , Indy EZ would be a very good choice .

Have YOU personally had a set on a flow bench with an op that KNOWS what the hell he's doing?

Or is it just hearsay? I will be building the same flow bench that was used for years by MSD. Built and designed by thier engineer.

I will let everyone know what I find out but I am fairly confident.

I think the quality on the heads is fine,actually quite good. The ONLY thing I could find wrong was some sharp material around the pushrod guide area that will clean up easy.

As for Mp's quality,I know some folks have had bad experiences. Not me though,and Ive had more than your average amount of mp parts. In fact these stage VI heads look to be very good.

It funny but EVERY time I bring up an mp part someone is gunna diz it.Not you John,but someone here,lol. I think it's a matter of a few sour deals that are blown out of proportion imo.

Disgruntled mopar customers tend to be VERY loud. It's just the way we are..

I am the one doing all the quality checks,lol.Too many chefs ruins the supper etc..

JMHO...

 

[JohnRR]

Have YOU personally had a set on a flow bench with an op that KNOWS what the hell he's doing?

Or is it just hearsay? I will be building the same flow bench that was used for years by MSD. Built and designed by thier engineer.

I will let everyone know what I find out but I am fairly confident.

I think the quality on the heads is fine,actually quite good. The ONLY thing I could find wrong was some sharp material around the pushrod guide area that will clean up easy.

As for Mp's quality,I know some folks have had bad experiences. Not me though,and Ive had more than your average amount of mp parts. In fact these stage VI heads look to be very good.

It funny but EVERY time I bring up an mp part someone is gunna diz it.Not you John,but someone here,lol. I think it's a matter of a few sour deals that are blown out of proportion imo.

Disgruntled mopar customers tend to be VERY loud. It's just the way we are..

I am the one doing all the quality checks,lol.Too many chefs ruins the supper etc..

JMHO...

Yes I have seen the numbers from a flow bench I TRUST , Porter Racing Heads in South Burlington, VT.

As I said unless something has changed the stage 6's do not flow very well as purchased and definitely not 300 :toothy10: . On the non raised port heads I have one of the heads has the dowel pins in the WRONG PLACE, I put it on the block and could only get 2 head bolts in, but since they have already been ported , flow 330ish, I have to fix it .

If you look in my basement you'll see alot of MP parts , I have an MP CRATE HEMI , it's apart and it was a (censored) MESS, if I ran it as purchased it would have flattened the cam and be smoking like a pig because the heads were a mess , I speak from experience , MP quality SUXS .

 

[needsaresto]

OK,I get it your a disgruntled customer lol.

Crate engines are an assembly,totally differenct animal.It's what happens when pissed off employees put thier pocket lint etc in,lol..it's called deliberate sabotage. Lesson one,keep your employees happy.:toothy10:

Nazi's found this out in a very harsh manner,lol.Slave labour isnt a good idea for building tanks/ammo etc..especially when the tanks engine fails shortly after startup due to the 10 lbs of machining filings in the crankcase..

Who knows why people find sand etc in thier mp crate engines? Pissed off mexicans working for peso's maybe??:munky2:

You saw the pics of the ports above? I'd say they have improved the quality. I think mine are the 04 casting version. Im aware mp had trouble with these heads,but it was resolved in the 90's when they first came out.

I guess I need to start gathering stuff to build my flow bench and prove my point..

 

[JohnRR]

OK,I get it your a disgruntled customer lol.

Crate engines are an assembly,totally differenct animal.It's what happens when pissed off employees put thier pocket lint etc in,lol..it's called deliberate sabotage. Lesson one,keep your employees happy.:toothy10:

Nazi's found this out in a very harsh manner,lol.Slave labour isnt a good idea for building tanks/ammo etc..especially when the tanks engine fails shortly after startup due to the 10 lbs of machining filings in the crankcase..

Who knows why people find sand etc in thier mp crate engines? Pissed off mexicans working for peso's maybe??:munky2:

You saw the pics of the ports above? I'd say they have improved the quality. I think mine are the 04 casting version. Im aware mp had trouble with these heads,but it was resolved in the 90's when they first came out.

I guess I need to start gathering stuff to build my flow bench and prove my point..

No you don't get it , I'm not a disgruntled customer , when there is something I need and MP has it I will buy it, unfortunately knowing it might need some rework, stupid comsumer is more like it .

You are very optimistic THINKING MP fixed the issues with the heads when they first came out ... HA :bootysha: , the heads I have with the dowel holes off are newer than 2000 , MP, like many aftermarket suppliers , doesn't fix squat, they leave that to the end user .

I purchased rocker shaft stands for the Chapman Stage 6's I had and they didn't fit properly and were supplied with the WRONG bolts :eyes: The Chapmans by the way fit and were right on out of the BOX , why you ask , because CHAPMAN had their name attached to it, not MP and their LOWEST BIDDER supply network ...

As far as building your own bench, I said above the numbers I have seen were off a TRUSTED BENCH, not something someone made in their garage.

Good luck with whatever you end up building .

 

[mopar340dave]

yeah, because a flow bench is soooo complex...........

 

[needsaresto]

OK,I get it you think the flow bench that served MSD for years isnt good enough,no problem..the flow bench Im building is from plans supplied in a magazine.

Like I said designed and built by MSD's engineer for thier testing purposes. Good enough for them,good enough for me.

Why isnt it good enough for you? Literally thousands of guys build stuff in thier garage at home.
MP does use a low bidder system. But I also know that 80% of hi perf parts need mods before you can use them,doesnt matter what brand.
And wouldnt YOU keep your costs as low as possible if you were mp?

I also know you could have ran into problems with your rocker shafts because CHAPMAN maybe changed something about the mp heads so you HAVE to use thier product. Geez big companies NEVER do that,lol...either way you ended up with chapmans products.

I cant count how many times I've seen easily fixable problems solved by throwing more parts and money at it when a little thinking would have done the same.


Dowel holes are a minor issue so I dont see it as an arguement for mp not fixing major issues.

I've had the heads poured over both by myself,my best friend and a reasonably competent machinist. We can find no problems,but things arise as the build continues so I will let all know what I find. I think I will go pull a stock rocker shaft off my 400 and see how well it mates up.

As for having people you trust doing the flow testing/building etc,it's shocking how quickly ethics get left behind when theres a few bucks to be made...

It's why I do most everything myself.

 

[needsaresto]

One other note here. There are no less than 7 different castings for the satge vi head,so yes I supect that mp would have solved many of the problems with these heads.

I wasnt really clear on which version I have.

P5249579. This is the max wedge port version with a 75 cc combustion chamber. So I think 290-300 ootb is reasonable considering what they are.

It's funny. I did a search on stage vi heads and couldnt find any unhappy customers?? Maybe the unhappy ones are just keeping quiet,lol...NOT!!!

These heads are capable of ridiculous amounts of power. About the only caveat I can find is dont raise the roof too hi on the standard port version,as you will break into the spring pocket which is very deep.It has also been mentioned that the spring pockets should have a bit better drainage to allow the valve seals to do thier job.

The only casting flash I can find on my heads is around the pushrod area from machining. Should clean up with a die grinder in about 5 minutes or less,oh no!!

I think these heads can push an A body deep into the 9's with some lightening and proper attention to suspension etc.

So far the only difficulty Im having is finding ductile iron rockers with the right offset for the intake..

 

[JohnRR]

Does that head use a longer than stock valve? The only stage 6's that use longer than stock valves are the Chapman versions.

The stage 6's that we modified for the 2003 enginemasters contest had the spring pockets filled and the epoxy in the pushrod holes, they flowed about 350cfm at .700 , but out of the box they were in the 260 range.

 

[needsaresto]

No I "think" it uses the stock valve..I have a pair of ss mopar valves I used for cc'ing the chamber,so I know they are 75 cc but I never thought to use them in that respect.

The interesting story on these heads is that one exhaust and one intake have been cnc machined..


The ports that are machined are really a work of art!

 

[needsaresto]

Now you have me thinking..

I need to check on this.

I'll break out the heads ,valves and have a look.

 

[JohnRR]

snap a pic of the spring side .

The port work looks well done .

 

[needsaresto]

I agree the port work is beautiful.I should get 330 340 cfm. These heads are a good reason to build a flow bench IMHO!

This is an old pic.I can snap a few new ones with measurements. Woould the chapmans have a difference around the seat cup size? Makes sence to me that the shaft mount would be different too.

I'll need to get out the digital calipers and do some measuring,but I suspect they are mp heads,not chapmans. Nobody gets lucky enough to buy chapmans off craigslist for a pittance...

Im kinda hoping thier not as they would be too much for my plans.I dont want to build a chassis car or even back half,lol!

 

[JohnRR]

Those are not Champans , and from the look of that picture they use stock valve lengths . You need to compare the roof of the unported intake ports to the ported and make sure whomever ported that didn't make the roof too thin.

Also you need to notch the spring pockets so the oil can escape , as they are not they will fill up over the top of the valve guide and leak into the ports .

 

[needsaresto]

The roof is fine John. Not touched except for cleanup. Most of the work is in the bowl/valveguide boss area. There has been some small amount removed to straighten the port as well.

The exhaust has been reworked a bit more,but not in the roof area.