are SS springs enough

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72ScampTramp

72ScampTramp

Scamp Tramp
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I have the SS springs for my Scamp build. Estimate 500 hp at the crank. Is SS springs going to be enough to help hook. If not what suggestions?


Car is in building stage so I have no idea if it will or not.
 
I have a set of HD almost new leaf springs that will do the job for $100 plus the ride PM me if you are interested
 
I have run 10:70s on stock springs take the clamps off the back 8deg.pinon angle home made 90/10 shocks on the front (no sway bar)and 12inch hosiers......Artie
 
I do have 12" ET streets as well. Shocks up front are KYB's. Clamps off the back of what? The springs? Can I ask what that does?
 
I'm running SS springs on my Duster. The important thing to get them to hook is your pinion angle and since there is a little more arch on them, the angle of the rear hangers (shackles) might need to be adjusted. I had to put 7/16" solid aluminum spacers on the front perches to move the springs back enough to get the proper rear hanger angle. The rear spring eye needs to be directly below or behind the top of the rear mount or it won't hook. Behind, at about a 5 or 10 degree angle, is good.
 
Right now perches arent welded to the rear I have done the mini tub and really from here I can go any direction. I have the 002 003 springs. so whats a good pinion angle for the SS springs? I was thinking its 7 degrees down. I also have the holes drilled to move the springs back about 1"
 
Yup they are exactly what you need. Are they the 002 and 003 springs? They are the sheeot.
 
72ScampTramp said:
Right now perches arent welded to the rear I have done the mini tub and really from here I can go any direction. I have the 002 003 springs. so whats a good pinion angle for the SS springs? I was thinking its 7 degrees down. I also have the holes drilled to move the springs back about 1"
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first taking the clamp off the stock spring lets them work better.you don't do it with s/s springs 7degrees is a good start just make sure you rear shackles are back if that makes sense.you want the back hole in the spring back farther then the one in the frame the shackle should be at an angel something like a 45deg.and be sure to check with car on the ground or with jack stand under rear housing and lower control arms.the more angel the more they will move and thats a good thing.........its always worked for me.with all that she should carry the wheels........Artie
 
72ScampTramp said:
I have the SS springs for my Scamp build. Estimate 500 hp at the crank. Is SS springs going to be enough to help hook. If not what suggestions?


Car is in building stage so I have no idea if it will or not.
Click to expand...
I have S/S springs 002,003 on my 71 Scamp with 500 HP at the crank. Springs are move in with the rear shackle almost straight up and down with a little tilt back. I have my pinion at 5 degrees with the S/S springs. Now mine is mini tubbed with 28 x 13.50 dot slicks. You will have to watch what shocks you put on. The Mopar drag shocks did not work. They would not let the rear lift. I use Competition Engineering adjustable shocks. This suspension set up worked on my drag Dart and it works great on my Scamp.
 
I run the super stock springs on my dart with the 90/10 front shocks and am pleased with the way it hooks. I have the pinion @ 6 degrees have run 1.50 60' in a 3360 lb car on a 9" tire with a 425-450 hp motor. Have seen others run mid 1.40's with about the same set up on super stocks.
 
Hey sounds like a fun car! Just a couple suggestions if you have not already done them:

Add a adjustable pinion snubber - you want 3/4 to 1 inch clearance with the weight of the car on it for the track

Clamp the springs - Helps the springs act as one during wrap up at launch

Stiffen the body with torque boxes and frame connectors

A good set of drag shocks front and rear - you want the front end to raise quickly to get the weght over the rear wheels and to slowly set it back down - Strange Double Adjustable Shocks as example

Front torsion bars - Use ones for Dart V8 motor - Will help get the front end up during launch

These are the things I learned from Dave Young (Technical Editor for Mopar Muscle Magazine). He used this type of set originally on the B3 project to get the 67 Barracuda to hook. I now own that car but it has had both the front and rear suspensions upgraded by Dave since the original build (to handle the 750 hp engine now in it)

Dave ran in the low 10's with a 650 HP motor with the original suspension set up. He did not tub the car so can only run a 10 inch wide by 28 inch tire. He pulled out all the tricks to get these small tires to hook. He has drag raced almost all his life and has an engineering degree on top of that. So the guy knows has stuff. Anybody can buy the expensive stuff and make a car hook. The B3 was (Barracuda, Bracket racer, and Budget) was done to show you how to do it for low cost.

You can still read about the B3 on Mopar Muscle site - Not all the articles are there, but many of the key ones.

Some pictures attached as follows:

1 - The orginal suspension set up hooking at the track - Notice how the car lauches level - No twist or tipping on the rear tires. This is what the stiffened body and correct weight transfer from good, properly set shocks will do.

2 - Spring wrap up - why clamping all the springs together helps

3 - Torque boxes - Stengthen the front spring mount on the rear suspension

4 - Frame connectors - Connect and stiffen the front and rear of the car

5 - Pinion snubber - Limits the amount of wrap of the rear axle springs

6 - Wheelie - As is today with new front and rear suspension



Throw some pictures of the car on the thread - We love pictures!

Good Luck - Hope I didn't add too much basic stuff here. Hope it helps!

Ma Snart
 

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My buddy ran a all steel 69 Dart (minus the hinge (SP?) glass hood) into the mid 9's with a 500 Indy headed RB on S/S springs, the 002-003 units.
 
I have KYB shocks in the front and Competetion Engineering 3 way for the rear. I did already do the mini tub so my springs are moved inboard. I do plan to add frame connectors but not torque boxes. Also I thought a snubber with SS springs didnt work together.

Ok clamp or unclamp? Im getting different answers. Or clamp the front and unclamp the rear?
 
clamp the front and unclamp the rear?
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Correct, if it need be done.
Also I thought a snubber with SS springs didnt work together.
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They do, but, the problem is people not setting the system up right for the car. In general, MoPar says to have the snubber approx. 1/2 inch from the floor. This measurement is a starting point that "In General" works best for the masses of people. Somewhere around the net, some body made a snubber that was extremely adjustable, unlike the MP unit. The snubber was set up on a screw and jamb nut locked it down. You could set it up in increments as small as a 1/32 difference. Even less maybe.
 
But some adj front shocks,KYB gonna hold you back.Adjustable if possible.at least Comp Engineering/Summit cheapie adjustables.The snubber is the known reference point.It uses the cars weight to load the springs.The added travel from the springs plants the wheel tire combo harder into the launching surface.
 
Fairly consistant 11.0's with mancini XHD springs, origional clamps with an extra clamp on the front segment, comp engineering shocks, the threaded screw type pinion snubber. You can see the spring wound up pretty good. hooks well with not many trick parts.
 

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That is a textbook launch.A lot of people do Caltracs,or 4 link for the extra .10.That is a lot of work ,and money spent.
 
I like that launch. I had a snubber for my Dana 60 then after searcing and talking was told I didnt need it so I sold it. So yall are saying i need one?
 
My dana doesnt have provisions for a snubber but that doesnt mean something cant be fabbed up. Can I get the rear in with the shocks and springs I have. Set the pinion angle and run it like that? im sure after I do that I will know what I need to do if changes are needed? So clamp the front and unclamp the rear section is there a tech guide that shows where to clamp?
 
Snubbers are available.There are threaded adjustable ones.Or ,go factory,The 4 spd 68 Hemi Darts came with Dana 60s.Go get one.Bolt it together,and install.The snubber springs, and shocks are a starting point.You need to make driveable,then the education starts.Try it,if it does not hook,post a video.You are pretty close.Video the first few launches,post here.That is the telling truth.
 
No pinion snubber is not a deal breaker, but make sure your pinion angle is set correctly. I have mine set a little much at 8ish deg. My front spring clamps are home made, so its a easy mod that really cant hurt. I have never tried unclamping the rear of the springs, after watching a few cars launch with that done, it just looks like an accident looking for a place to happen.
 
Good to know,thanks.What shock out back?Looks like maybe a Comp engineering,or QA1s.
 
I was thinking 7 degrees down which would be negative. I have the adjustable shocks out back. I have heard about clamping the fronts but never heard of unclamping the rear. Ill try it this a way first and if a snubber is needed Ill figure something out later
 
Also very important is the correct length shocks, to short and it will unload the rear axle on launch. I always go with the extra long comp engineering. Pick the brand you want, just make sure they are long enough.
 
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