At what point would you step up to ferrea hollow stem valves

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MOPARMAGA

MOPARMAGA

" The other hard member"
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I probably don't need to but just wanted to know what would make you choose lighter weight parts on a big block stroker.
My build is 471 with tf 240s & it's getting near the finish line.
Looking to make this engine last as long as a drag car can, I weighed an intake valve at 143 grams that's pretty heavy but I should only turn 7k at the stripe.
Any thoughts or experience ?
Thank you
 
MOPARMAGA said:
Any reason ?
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Yeah. Remember when they used hollow exhaust valves in medium and heavy duty trucks filled with sodium to keep them cool? Did it for a LONG time. Probably from the 40s to the 90s I bet. They finally quit. You know why? You know what happens when pure sodium hit any moisture at all? It explodes. Violently. The valve stems were cracking and exposing the sodium to the moisture in the exhaust and bam. They finally stopped that stupid crap. I don't care who makes um, or who runs um. I wouldn't trust a hollow stem. While the performance versions are certainly not sodium filled, use your imagination and think about how thin a 3/8" valve has to be that's hollow. I just wouldn't do it. I'd look for other areas to save weight. Just my opinion.
 
Like roller cam or solid flat tappet or what? I guess what I would consider is the lighter the valve train is, can I get away with less valve spring pressure. How much I could gain in power (lower et) and greater engine longevity (more runs per valve job).
 
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ch1ll said:
Like roller cam or solid flat tappet or what? I guess what I would consider is the lighter the valve train is, can I get away with less valve spring pressure. How much I could gain in power (lower et) and greater engine longevity (more runs per valve job).
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Somebody would have to explain to me how valve weight affects spring pressure. It's the lobe lift that dictates spring pressure. At least that's how I see it......maybe I'm misunderstooken.
 
I'm thinking real real hard at putting Ti intake valves in edde 75cc heads and it will acomplish dang near the same weight as the ss exhaust valves. Just for equaling things out on the valve train. This weight savings thing has really been costly and don't know where to stop.
 
ch1ll said:
Like roller cam or solid flat tappet or what? I guess what I would consider is the lighter the valve train is, can I get away with less valve spring pressure. How much I could gain in power (lower et) and greater engine longevity (more runs per valve job).
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Solid flat for now
 
RustyRatRod said:
Somebody would have to explain to me how valve weight affects spring pressure. It's the lobe lift that dictates spring pressure. At least that's how I see it......maybe I'm misunderstooken.
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It's valve float I'm worried about
 
RustyRatRod said:
Yeah. Remember when they used hollow exhaust valves in medium and heavy duty trucks filled with sodium to keep them cool? Did it for a LONG time. Probably from the 40s to the 90s I bet. They finally quit. You know why? You know what happens when pure sodium hit any moisture at all? It explodes. Violently. The valve stems were cracking and exposing the sodium to the moisture in the exhaust and bam. They finally stopped that stupid crap. I don't care who makes um, or who runs um. I wouldn't trust a hollow stem. While the performance versions are certainly not sodium filled, use your imagination and think about how thin a 3/8" valve has to be that's hollow. I just wouldn't do it. I'd look for other areas to save weight. Just my opinion.
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Yeah good point, ferrea valves are not filled with sodium though
 
Most likely just run it & see what everything looks like after a season, since I'll be switching to solid roller eventually.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Yeah. Remember when they used hollow exhaust valves in medium and heavy duty trucks filled with sodium to keep them cool? Did it for a LONG time. Probably from the 40s to the 90s I bet. They finally quit. You know why? You know what happens when pure sodium hit any moisture at all? It explodes. Violently. The valve stems were cracking and exposing the sodium to the moisture in the exhaust and bam. They finally stopped that stupid crap. I don't care who makes um, or who runs um. I wouldn't trust a hollow stem. While the performance versions are certainly not sodium filled, use your imagination and think about how thin a 3/8" valve has to be that's hollow. I just wouldn't do it. I'd look for other areas to save weight. Just my opinion.
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FYI trickflow is 11/32. Loosing weight on the car is going to be the task for this fall. My goal is 10.00-10.20 area so maybe I won't have to spin it up real high & since I'm the head bench guy at work I can always do stuff like titanium retainers 1st & add later
 
For a SFT tappet, I think hollow or Ti valves that are only seeing 7k rpm is overkill.
Ease the load on the valve train & control valve float by using beehive or conical springs.
 
Lighter valves are always a benefit. Always. I’d use 5/16 stem valves. You can’t get the valves light enough, regardless of RPM or cam type.
 
as a mechanic in the early 70's I replaced 100's of ford 330/361/391/389 engines because of hollow exhaust valve stems in this ford engine line /all had hollow sodium filled stems, the cause of failure was intake gasket getting sucked in /so if you run them lean failure is quick and deadly
 
If you run Ti valves you need copper beryllium seats. Unless you are running 8K and over I would not bother.
 
Found this on Dragzine
More Than Hollow Promises — Ferrea Hollow-Stem Valve Technology

gregacosta.thumbnail.jpg

By GREG ACOSTA AUGUST 21, 2020


Lately, we’ve been covering a lot of high-RPM engine builds, some which are incredibly expensive, one-off deals, and some that are approaching the level of ridiculously attainable as far as cost and technology. One of the things that have brought high-RPM engine builds out of the stratosphere and into the realm of everyday performance is the availability of lightweight valvetrain components.

Once considered an “exotic material” according to rulebooks, Titanium has become extremely common in today’s engines. However, the weight savings provided comes at a cost. The material is both more expensive than the stainless-steel alternatives, and harder (and thus, more expensive) to machine. However, Ferrea offers valves that can rival the weight savings offered by Titanium, as well as come in at a lower price point.

more-than-hollow-promises-ferrea-hollow-stem-valve-technology-2020-08-17_15-54-01_237139.jpg

Besides gun-drilling and micro-polishing, the key to Ferrea’s success with hollow-stem valves is the concentricity of the void. By having perfectly even wall-thickness throughout the stem, strength is increased.

To do that, Ferrea Racing Components has developed a process that not only gun-drills the valve stem to reduce weight, but also micro-polishes the passage. That polishing eliminates any potential stress risers and creating an even wall surface, making for a strong valvestem, while reducing the valve’s weight by up to 22-percent. That gives you a Titanium valve’s weight, without a Titanium valve’s price.

Then, if budget isn’t a concern, and all you are worried about is getting down to the absolute minimum valve weight possible, Ferrea also offers hollow-stem Titanium valves. The same process of gun-drilling and micro-polishing is performed as with the stainless-steel valves. However, there are no cost-savings here. In fact, if you want hollow-stem Titanium valves, you need to call Ferrea to order directly. But, there is nothing lighter, if for some reason you need to shed every possible gram of mass from your valvetrain.
 
brian6pac said:
If you run Ti valves you need copper beryllium seats. Unless you are running 8K and over I would not bother.
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That was My first thought, not sure if those TF's come with compatible seats, and the expense to switch if not isn't worth it with other options there for this app. I agree 100%, lighter is going to improve output, the benefits are greatest with aggressive lobes & high ratio rockers or race rollers, just saying "flat tappet" isn't enough of a description. Specs please.....
As far as the factory hollow-stem issues, these aren't old mass production units, & I wouldn't do the exhaust valves on this anyways. The heavies are the intakes, it'd take Ti to get the intakes down to the weight of the SS exhausts as is. The exhausts are the likely-to-fail/sieze during an accidental lean event, leave 'em alone.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Somebody would have to explain to me how valve weight affects spring pressure. It's the lobe lift that dictates spring pressure. At least that's how I see it......maybe I'm misunderstooken.
Click to expand...
Controlling the valve mass is the spring's ONLY job, the lobes are effectively trying to "throw" the valve into space. The higher the velocity(& remember energy is a square law- 2x speed=4x energy) and the higher the spring load & the frequency tuning has to be. Velocity can be different to the extreme for the same lift so, no........less valve mass means one can use a more aggressive cam on the same springs, or use less spring load on the same cam, with a good beehive offering the best of the latter....
 
Killer6 said:
That was My first thought, not sure if those TF's come with compatible seats, and the expense to switch if not isn't worth it with other options there for this app. I agree 100%, lighter is going to improve output, the benefits are greatest with aggressive lobes & high ratio rockers or race rollers, just saying "flat tappet" isn't enough of a description. Specs please.....
As far as the factory hollow-stem issues, these aren't old mass production units, & I wouldn't do the exhaust valves on this anyways. The heavies are the intakes, it'd take Ti to get the intakes down to the weight of the SS exhausts as is. The exhausts are the likely-to-fail/sieze during an accidental lean event, leave 'em alone.
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Okay howard's sft .410-.415 lobes .904 wide, lifters are EDM , basically .660 lift with the h-s 1.6 rockers & 260-264 @ .050, so not a big cam by racing standards
 
Killer6 said:
Controlling the valve mass is the spring's ONLY job, the lobes are effectively trying to "throw" the valve into space. The higher the velocity(& remember energy is a square law- 2x speed=4x energy) and the higher the spring load & the frequency tuning has to be. Velocity can be different to the extreme for the same lift so, no........less valve mass means one can use a more aggressive cam on the same springs, or use less spring load on the same cam, with a good beehive offering the best of the latter....
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Yeah, but the valves also have gravity on their side. I think some of yall are over thinkin this stuff. There's just no way in hell I'd run a hollow valve. I think it's splittin hairs and it's best to look elsewhere for "upgrades".
 
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