Biggest mistake ever- lunati cams

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MerlinsMopar

MerlinsMopar

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Well 1st off, lunati tech support really sucks. 2hrs 45 minutes and got hung up on.
My issue was my mistake tho. I ordered the voodoo cam/lifter and spring PKG. Cam # 10200703. Spring # 73195k which was fine and dandy for stock x head spring height however, I got the speed master heads bug from someone, dumped another 1k into them and assembled the motor. When I went to check spring psi and installed height, closed height was almost a 1/4" more than stock x heads.
Installed height is 1 .84 on the speed master heads and closed psi is 115lb.
Closest spring I could find was trickflow # 16972-16 which show 1.85 installed height at 109lb which may be able to be shimmed to get close. The main issue with them is the outer diameter of 1.46 and the heads use a 1.437 dia spring. Its turning into a big mistake buying this junk. I am ready to pull this cam and throw it thru a window. Should have stuck with Mopar. If anyone has this setup and any helpful information, I sure would appreciate it. I wanted to take the car to Carlisle in July but at this point, I will never make it.
 
I had the same issue with a Comp complete set. The springs inthe kit were for iron head application. I had to search and find a spring to meet specs and still had to do some minor shimming to achieve proper open and full lift #s.

Tim
 
Reminds me of the time I used dual Isky springs back in the 1970's on the factory 1965 273 heads on a rebuild. Put 2 gallons of coolant in the radiator and it still needed more. Pulled the dipstick and found the coolant in the oil. Pulled a valve cover and found the coolant leaking from underneath a valve spring seat. The machine shop cut the valve spring seats too deeply and the spring popped right down into the water jacket. Heads ruined. Went to 340 cylinder heads next, not realizing the loss in compression (open chamber 340 vs closed chamber 273) which resulted in no performance increase in the quarter mile times.

1965ValiantEffortcopy.jpg
 
MerlinsMopar said:
Well 1st off, lunati tech support really sucks. 2hrs 45 minutes and got hung up on.
My issue was my mistake tho. I ordered the voodoo cam/lifter and spring PKG. Cam # 10200703. Spring # 73195k which was fine and dandy for stock x head spring height however, I got the speed master heads bug from someone, dumped another 1k into them and assembled the motor. When I went to check spring psi and installed height, closed height was almost a 1/4" more than stock x heads.
Installed height is 1 .84 on the speed master heads and closed psi is 115lb.
Closest spring I could find was trickflow # 16972-16 which show 1.85 installed height at 109lb which may be able to be shimmed to get close. The main issue with them is the outer diameter of 1.46 and the heads use a 1.437 dia spring. Its turning into a big mistake buying this junk. I am ready to pull this cam and throw it thru a window. Should have stuck with Mopar. If anyone has this setup and any helpful information, I sure would appreciate it. I wanted to take the car to Carlisle in July but at this point, I will never make it.
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Just on the title and first paragraph, I stop reading and know what your talking about.

It took me nearly a month of constant calls to get them to refund my money on there mistake on there recommendation on a cam they screwed up on that I couldn’t use.

**** LUNATI

NEVER AGAIN - EVER!
 
Sounds to me like you're mad at the wrong part. The heads are more at fault than the cam IMO. Either way, some research might have helped. Might have. Who knows what figures Speedmaster has posted are right? All that said, there's still no excuse for the poor customer service from Lunasty.
 
I have a Lunati 10200704 and the springs that go with it in the 340 in my Duster. You have to machine the heads to accept the double springs, that's true even with the mopar 308 heads I have on my 340. The factory heads were not cut for double springs. Then you have to check, and possibly machine the spring pockets or shim them to get to the proper installed height. I'm not sure if the website still says it, but Lunati's springs used to have a disclaimer posted that you would need to have the your heads machined to accept the double spring set up.

I don't see how this is a Lunati problem at all. You bought springs that don't fit your heads. You either have to make them fit, or you have to buy different springs. Which you probably could have figured out just by looking at the published specs.

And while I don't condone the lousy customer service, what exactly is it that you need customer service to tell you? The Lunati springs require the heads to be cut for doubles. Then you set the installed height. The only sell the springs they have listed, so, if you don't see springs with the specs you need on their website they don't have them. Beyond that, they're gonna tell you that you need to get to the proper spring pressure for that cam, which again is already listed. This is just what you have to do when you install any aftermarket cam- you have to measure the installed height, check the spring pressure, and make the modifications necessary to get to the proper spring pressure.
 
I think comp and lunati are the same because my machine shop told me to call them to see about a fit for the spudmasters and the same damn music and message on hold. Exactly the same. 1 hr 45 minutes yesterday afternoon, down to 2 callers left in que and they closed. Please call back tomorrow. Then today I call 5 minutes after they opened, 1 hr 2 minutes in and boink! Hung up. I'm glad I don't live near there.
Summit guided me to the trickflow springs but still a lot of work if they will even fit in the seat.
The whole reason for the cam was to have enough vacuum to use the power brakes.
 
72bluNblu said:
I have a Lunati 10200704 and the springs that go with it in the 340 in my Duster. You have to machine the heads to accept the double springs, that's true even with the mopar 308 heads I have on my 340. The factory heads were not cut for double springs. Then you have to check, and possibly machine the spring pockets or shim them to get to the proper installed height. I'm not sure if the website still says it, but Lunati's springs used to have a disclaimer posted that you would need to have the your heads machined to accept the double spring set up.

I don't see how this is a Lunati problem at all. You bought springs that don't fit your heads. You either have to make them fit, or you have to buy different springs. Which you probably could have figured out just by looking at the published specs.

And while I don't condone the lousy customer service, what exactly is it that you need customer service to tell you? The Lunati springs require the heads to be cut for doubles. Then you set the installed height. The only sell the springs they have listed, so, if you don't see springs with the specs you need on their website they don't have them. Beyond that, they're gonna tell you that you need to get to the proper spring pressure for that cam, which again is already listed. This is just what you have to do when you install any aftermarket cam- you have to measure the installed height, check the spring pressure, and make the modifications necessary to get to the proper spring pressure.
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Agreed on my mistake which started when I purchased the speed master heads. They went right to the machine shop where the stock heads were done and when I picked them up, I noticed that the lunati springs were still on the stock heads and I told them that I needed them on the speed masters. Well they did change them over but never checked anything. I seen the dampeners were out along with the inner springs so I put the dampeners back in as instructed for break-in. That's when I noticed the difference in size and TG I did cuz that was a disaster brewing and at the longer installed height the spring psi was like 60lb.
I was hoping to ask lunati if they had the correct spring at installed height and after a portion of my life, was unable to talk to anyone which had me heated.
 
MerlinsMopar said:
Agreed on my mistake which started when I purchased the speed master heads. They went right to the machine shop where the stock heads were done and when I picked them up, I noticed that the lunati springs were still on the stock heads and I told them that I needed them on the speed masters. Well they did change them over but never checked anything. I seen the dampeners were out along with the inner springs so I put the dampeners back in as instructed for break-in. That's when I noticed the difference in size and TG I did cuz that was a disaster brewing and at the longer installed height the spring psi was like 60lb.
I was hoping to ask lunati if they had the correct spring at installed height and after a portion of my life, was unable to talk to anyone which had me heated.
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It sounds to me like your frustration should be aimed at the machine shop, not Lunati. They should have swapped the springs and at least contacted you if that wasn't going to be an easy thing to do.

As for the spring, everything Lunati sells is on their website. So if you can't find it there, they don't have it. It does suck that customer service has gotten so bad, but that's just about everywhere now. As far as Comp and Lunati being the same, it's very possible that they're now owned by the same parent company. I haven't checked into it but more and more it seems like all the older independent names have been bought up by one of about 3 of the major corporations, and that hasn't helped the customer experience at all.
 
Yea, the machine shop swapped them over like I asked but never checked anything. That's what I get for trying to use aftermarket crap.
 
Wow all this negativity towards Lunati I ran 3 of their Voodoo cams in my 416 and 360 never had an issue performed flawlessly then again they were installed correctly with the correct springs :) :) :)
 
MerlinsMopar said:
Yea, the machine shop swapped them over like I asked but never checked anything. That's what I get for trying to use aftermarket crap.
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See, I don't get this part. The only way to avoid this is to leave the engine absolutely bone stock.

Even the Mopar Performance cams, once you get to a certain level of performance, require machine work to the heads to get the factory spring pockets to work with the springs needed for the upgraded cam.

If you put in a bigger cam, from ANY manufacturer, you have to make sure that the springs are at the proper installed height and have the right PSI. And that requires machine work even on the stock heads. This is simply a part of installing a bigger cam.
 
MerlinsMopar said:
That's what I get for trying to use aftermarket crap.
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It has nothing to do with aftermarket crap. It’s doing ones homework. Doing the Math.
Lunati doesn’t know what heads one has. Speedmaster doesn’t know what one does with the heads. They all provide the specs clear as day in order for a customer to make the right choices and know what might need to be done.
 
I built a nice street 360 a little over a year ago using Speedmaster assembled heads, and a Summit 1789 (Crane) cam. The springs that came with the heads were way to much for the cam. I had to do some research, checking of specs to source the best springs for the cam, the retainers and required shims to set them up correctly. It is all on the one assembling.

But I agree, the times I tried contacting Lunati was nothing but frustration.
 
I must be lucky, I guess. I have the 703 in my 340 with Edelbrock alum heads. I got through to Lunati no issue and was recommended that cam.
 
Maybe you can now appreciate the difference between a REAL "engine builder" and a "parts assembler" and your machine shop sounds incompetent
 
MerlinsMopar said:
I think comp and lunati are the same because my machine shop told me to call them to see about a fit for the spudmasters and the same damn music and message on hold. Exactly the same. 1 hr 45 minutes yesterday afternoon, down to 2 callers left in que and they closed. Please call back tomorrow. Then today I call 5 minutes after they opened, 1 hr 2 minutes in and boink! Hung up. I'm glad I don't live near there.
Summit guided me to the trickflow springs but still a lot of work if they will even fit in the seat.
The whole reason for the cam was to have enough vacuum to use the power brakes.
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Google k-motion valve springs and check out their listings
 
replicaracer43 said:
Maybe you can now appreciate the difference between a REAL "engine builder" and a "parts assembler" and your machine shop sounds incompetent
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When I took the Edelbrocks on my current 360 in to my machinist, he told me to send him the cam info that included specs for valve spring pressures and he ordered and installed the springs himself as part of the service. But then his business isn't just "regular" machine shop/engine rebuilding, he builds race engines and transmissions...

Similar to how I brought in a 440 block to the same guy, asking for a .030" overbore along with cleaning up the decks etc. and he said he wouldn't touch the cylinders until he had the replacement pistons in hand so he could bore the cylinders to the exact size for correct piston-to-cylinder clearance.
 
I don’t have any SM heads on hand to check at the moment, but I think a 1.460 spring would fit those heads without machining anything.
 
plumkrazee70 said:
I must be lucky, I guess. I have the 703 in my 340 with Edelbrock alum heads. I got through to Lunati no issue and was recommended that cam.
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What springs did you use? What was the installed height, bind and seat loads? I think speed master is a Chinese version of Edelbrock.
 
PRH said:
I don’t have any SM heads on hand to check at the moment, but I think a 1.460 spring would fit those heads without machining anything.
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forphorty said:
I wish a cam choice was my biggest mistake ever.
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Definitely was in this build. If I would have known the spring height was different, I would have tried to figure it out. Last minute change so I went with the flow. The machine shop was aware of the cam being used and the stock heads were a good fit for the springs but in all the swap, I didn't think to check the measurement difference between them and surprised the shop didn't either They build a lot of race motors and should have made sure they were right.
Im temped to pull the heads, sell them and have hardened seats installed in the stock ones. All this to get out of the dreaded, leaded race fuel syndrome. It's why I changed the heads out in the 1st place. I run the 110leaded vp race fuel 50/50 in my barracuda and when I started this build the fuel was a lot cheaper. Pandemic drove everything up and now 93 unleaded is the price that the race fuel was. 105$ for 5 gallons and I can burn that in a half hour and it surely don't need 110 octane. Hopefully I can find the right springs tho.
 
MerlinsMopar said:
The whole reason for the cam was to have enough vacuum to use the power brakes
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Hang on man
I ran the Mopar 292/292/108 in my 11/1 360 and the power brakes worked just fine, once charged up.. which only takes a couple of blips of the throttle. I measured that cam as 249*@.050.
The 10200703 is 226/234/[email protected] and 268/276 advertised, which are great specs for a streeter.
In a streeter, which will rarely run a cam bigger than that Mopar 292, I think, and this is opinion, that waaaay too much attention is put on worrying about power brakes. So what if the booster does not work at idle. As soon as the rpm rises a few hundred rpm, and long before the stall is reached, the booster will be raring to go.. Shoot, I park my manual-trans car in the carport nose in. and by the time I get her backed out, the booster is already on line.
 
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