Blueprint crate engine

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Not sure how to figure out what gear ratio is currently in place. No ID tags to help decipher.

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33IMP said:
Plaza sedan is bottom line 58 (or near it) and I'll bet it's lighter than some 70s A-bodies. Aluminum head 408, and a 904, would be a couple hundred pounds less than an all-iron poly, and iron powerflite.
Edit: Plaza is even down-scale of a savoy in 58. Two door sedan probably the lightest 58 Plymouth you could buy. Frankly, I'm surprised it has a poly and auto, I would have expected a six cylinder flattie and a three on the tree.
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With the exception of the business coupe, this particular model was about as cheap as you could get and it’s the last year the plaza model was offered. I can’t confirm the drivetrain is original but the VIN would lead me to believe it is. No arm rests, but it has a radio, dual speed windshield wiper with fluid sprayer, sun visors, cigarette lighter, etc.. A bit of a strange duck.
 
58plaza said:
With the exception of the business coupe, this particular model was about as cheap as you could get and it’s the last year the plaza model was offered. I can’t confirm the drivetrain is original but the VIN would lead me to believe it is. No arm rests, but it has a radio, dual speed windshield wiper with fluid sprayer, sun visors, cigarette lighter, etc.. A bit of a strange duck.
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Edit: shipping weight 3,385 lbs. Curb weight: 3,560 lbs.
 
Theoretically, you could get a 62-64 aluminum PB torqueflite that might adapt to your pushbuttons.
Other than that, any newer trans will need an aftermarket shifter.
 
If it's stone original, it MIGHT still have a tag on one of the center section bolts with the ratio on it. I wouldn't bank on it. Other than that, you'll have to determine if it's open (99.9% probability) or sure grip.
Both rear tires off the ground, neutral, if sure grip, turn one tire, the other will go the same direction. Open, the other tire will turn opposite, or not at all.
Further instructions and methods for counting the gear ratio are available on you tube. Good luck.



ction
 
33IMP said:
If it's stone original, it MIGHT still have a tag on one of the center section bolts with the ratio on it. I wouldn't bank on it. Other than that, you'll have to determine if it's open (99.9% probability) or sure grip.
Both rear tires off the ground, neutral, if sure grip, turn one tire, the other will go the same direction. Open, the other tire will turn opposite, or not at all.
Further instructions and methods for counting the gear ratio are available on you tube. Good luck.



ction
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Hey Guy,

Put whatever you want in your car. It’s the height of stupidity for guys to call you out for a high horsepower engine in a Mopar that’s not for racing etc. WTF? A 408 stroker sounds like a great idea in that car!
 
mario03srt said:
Hey Guy,

Put whatever you want in your car. It’s the height of stupidity for guys to call you out for a high horsepower engine in a Mopar that’s not for racing etc. WTF? A 408 stroker sounds like a great idea in that car!
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Your response seems a little uncalled for. We (or I) wasn’t calling him out at all. I merely stated that given his own description of the intended use of the vehicle the choice of engine was questionable. Do you think it would be wise to put 465hp in front of a trans that’s designed to handle 150 and a rear that could hold possibly 400? It’s not “the height of stupidity” to suggest something different that may be a better option for a given set of circumstances.
 
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TT5.9mag said:
Your response seems a little uncalled for. We (or I) wasn’t calling him out at all. I merely stated that given his own description of the intended use of the vehicle the choice of engine was questionable. Do you think it would be wise to put 465hp in front of a trans that’s designed to handle 150 and a rear that could hold possibly 400? It’s not “the height of stupidity” to suggest something different that may be a better option for a given set of circumstances.
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i'll add to the concerns of the supporting cast that, surprise! 465hp motors don't like to be soft pedaled around town and can sometimes suffer from lack of throttle response down low and be a little fickle in the driveability department.

to me 465 hp says street/strip car or a weekend bruiser, not i wanna cruise to sonic for a tots and shake.
 
Yes, she’ll be a driver, but not daily. If replacing the trans, how would I know which one to choose? A quick search online generates numerous options, which vary widely in $$. Will the push buttons currently used for the power flite work with a 727 trans?
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this is kind of a slippery slope and dependent on a lot of different factors and personal choices.
things that will make the decision more challenging are if you want an overdrive transmission, if using the factory pushbuttons is a deal breaker and if you don't want to cut on the car or are not able to do minimal fabrication work.

no matter the answer, you will 100% need to upgrade. the question to what should you upgrade to will be determined by those factors.
 
junkyardhero said:
i'll add to the concerns of the supporting cast that, surprise! 465hp motors don't like to be soft pedaled around town and can sometimes suffer from lack of throttle response down low and be a little fickle in the driveability department.

to me 465 hp says street/strip car or a weekend bruiser, not i wanna cruise to sonic for a tots and shake.
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My 414 small block stroker is 500 hp 500 tq at the crank and throttle response off idle is instant and hits hard and fast zero delay. I can drive mine around like grandma stop and go traffic putting around its just purs along just fine. Has a custom ground hydraulic roller from Indio Motor Machine in CA they know how to get it all to work right together.
 
TT5.9mag said:
I don’t get it, if it’s not being raced or driven hard, why do you need a 465hp crate engine?
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I see what you are saying, but how many of us have ever said, "Wow, why would he want to stuff a 426 Hemi in his 67 Barracuda?" or "Nah, I don't want any more HP because I am not going to race my car". :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Seriously though, I think you can put in whatever kind of an engine you want, but I am pretty sure you'll need to swap out the transmission. The old Powerflite will likely not tolerate the power. I'd consider a modern 5 or 6 speed Automatic overdrive. How cool would it be to be able to smoke your tires AND get 25 MPG on the highway.
 
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TT5.9mag said:
Your response seems a little uncalled for. We (or I) wasn’t calling him out at all. I merely stated that given his own description of the intended use of the vehicle the choice of engine was questionable. Do you think it would be wise to put 465hp in front of a trans that’s designed to handle 150 and a rear that could hold possibly 400? It’s not “the height of stupidity” to suggest something different that may be a better option for a given set of circumstances.
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S'why I put him on ignore a long, long time ago.
 
junkyardhero said:
this is kind of a slippery slope and dependent on a lot of different factors and personal choices.
things that will make the decision more challenging are if you want an overdrive transmission, if using the factory pushbuttons is a deal breaker and if you don't want to cut on the car or are not able to do minimal fabrication work.

no matter the answer, you will 100% need to upgrade. the question to what should you upgrade to will be determined by those factors.
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Thanks to all for the feedback. I’d like to avoid cutting on the car or going away from the push button trans but it sounds as though that may not be possible if I opt for a crate engine. The mechanic who worked on my car last fall doesn’t like to fabricate or make major modifications so I may have to find another shop.
 
58plaza said:
Thanks to all for the feedback. I’d like to avoid cutting on the car or going away from the push button trans but it sounds as though that may not be possible if I opt for a crate engine. The mechanic who worked on my car last fall doesn’t like to fabricate or make major modifications so I may have to find another shop.
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If you are paying to have all the work done and you want to avoid heavy mods to the car then you should consider the keep the poly advice. The money saved on the blueprint will be big $$ to get the rest of the car sorted out. Your total $$ will be much lower modding the poly (stroker even) or waiting until a prebuilt car comes available with what you want. Good shops are very expensive. Cheap shops are even more expensive but you don’t realize it up front.
 
AJ/FormS said:
If it was mine, I'd keep the poly (with maybe a 2x4 for the visual) and stick an A500 overdrive under the floor, and something like a SG 3.73/3.91 in the back.
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that would be my play as well. i'm a sucker for factory duals on 50's cars.

the poly is strong and could support a nice stroker with a mild cam and make tugboat levels of torque too.
 
58plaza said:
Thanks to all for the feedback. I’d like to avoid cutting on the car or going away from the push button trans but it sounds as though that may not be possible if I opt for a crate engine. The mechanic who worked on my car last fall doesn’t like to fabricate or make major modifications so I may have to find another shop.
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99.99% chance you'll have to fab a trans cross member, 100% you'll have to fab a trans mount. either of which i'd classify as "basic hot rod fab" so if you have a vice, torch, BFH and a buzzbox it's doable.

with the mopar variants: 500/518, 42/46RH the likelihood is that you could grab the mount from the donor and adapt that to a custom x-member or maybe grab the whole encharito off the chassis and then stab that onto the plaza. the determining factor on the cutting would be if there's room under the tunnel, the plaza being frame on makes the rest of it a breeze.

adapting the pushbuttons presents a unique challenge. i know that there's a kit that allows early 60's pushbuttons to utilize later transmissions, so i'm sure with some fettling that could be made to work. however, you'd likely want somebody that's familar with the system and torqueflite transmissions to perform that kind of work. the other option is an aftermarket floor shifter, which is kind of dealer's choice in the broadest of terms and requires a small hole in the foorboard so that convenience comes at a cost.

then you just have the consideration of how to control the OD and lock up on the trans. easy-peasy.
 
Or he could do a brand X transmission swap without cutting the car up "if" he decides to go that route. Some early 8.75 axles sported 8" ring gears.
 
I had both the Iron Head 408 and the Aluminum Head 408 in my '67 dart and after I started with the smaller one it was a blast but I wanted that little more and the motor ended up having problems so had to go back to BluePrint anyway and I opted for the higher output version. It runs great is a little quieter and the extra 80HP is definitely worth it - IMHO - If I had the extra 2K I would spend it every time. From a service perspective BluePrint was exceptional, they had a video of the old motor and agreed there was something not right and paid to ship it back tore it down and made me a sweetheart deal on the Aluminum head option. There is another thread this week on flat tappet lifters and BluePrint also suffers from the challenges with quality suppliers for that configuration so in my experience the Aluminum head motor is the way to go.
 
I didn't read all of the posts-the early rearend has the keyed axles with the nut on the end. Also it has no parking brake features. The parking brake is on the end of the transmission.. A few years back, I helped a friend install a 68-70 B body rear in his 58. He had to move the perches in a little bit-I think then on top of it we swapped in his dual quad 392 Hemi. He passed away before he finished it, his wife sold it to a friend of mine in Kansas, and he passed away. His brother then sold it on his estate sale-it was covered on one of You Tubes "Scotts Speed Shop". Check it out.
 
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