Good luck.
Breathing new life into the 318 in the Scamp!
- Thread starter DaveBonds
- Start date
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DaveBonds
Garage Trash
Man, lifters are burning cold today!
Got a closer look at the cam. It looks fine. Same amount of break in wear as the other lobes, same amount of parkerizing, same pattern, etc. No gouges anywhere, no odd wear on the nose of the lift.
I hit the lifter with a dial caliper and got .9035"-.904" on it in several places, as well as another that broke in just fine.
All of that makes sense, though, because it didn't give me trouble when I checked the set installed, dry, as per their chart/ process.
The streaking on the lifter makes me wonder if the bore is a tad off, or if that small pitting had any contribution.
The bores mic out the same, across in an X pattern on the internal jaws of the caliper, 90° from each measurement.
I don't know if I can get a clean measurement out of the lifter bores with my caliper. I tried, but I was getting 1.0015-1.002" on two different ones, which leads me to wonder if the caliper's internal jaws are wacky. I should be seeing .9051"-.906" or so.
I wonder if I should buy the broaching tool and do it, or just clean and inspect the bore really well and try a new lifter with more break in lube? I'm going to check the oiling out on that lifter bore and make sure its getting good oil.
Got a closer look at the cam. It looks fine. Same amount of break in wear as the other lobes, same amount of parkerizing, same pattern, etc. No gouges anywhere, no odd wear on the nose of the lift.
I hit the lifter with a dial caliper and got .9035"-.904" on it in several places, as well as another that broke in just fine.
All of that makes sense, though, because it didn't give me trouble when I checked the set installed, dry, as per their chart/ process.
The streaking on the lifter makes me wonder if the bore is a tad off, or if that small pitting had any contribution.
The bores mic out the same, across in an X pattern on the internal jaws of the caliper, 90° from each measurement.
I don't know if I can get a clean measurement out of the lifter bores with my caliper. I tried, but I was getting 1.0015-1.002" on two different ones, which leads me to wonder if the caliper's internal jaws are wacky. I should be seeing .9051"-.906" or so.
I wonder if I should buy the broaching tool and do it, or just clean and inspect the bore really well and try a new lifter with more break in lube? I'm going to check the oiling out on that lifter bore and make sure its getting good oil.
Since you do not have an inside ball micrometer.
Cheap trick.
Cut a metal coat hanger to length, radius the ends. (Very important).
Slowly grind one end down until it slides equally down the ID of the bore.
Measure with you caliper.
Time consuming yes but it will work.
The reason you cannot get an accurate measurement on an ID of a bore is because of the thickness of the caliper jaws.
Try it and see what measurement you get.
Cheap trick.
Cut a metal coat hanger to length, radius the ends. (Very important).
Slowly grind one end down until it slides equally down the ID of the bore.
Measure with you caliper.
Time consuming yes but it will work.
The reason you cannot get an accurate measurement on an ID of a bore is because of the thickness of the caliper jaws.
Try it and see what measurement you get.
DaveBonds
Garage Trash
The caliper has a bladed edge on the internal and external jaw, toward the end. I think this caliper's internal jaw is off, though, because it doesn't look zero or feel zero with my feeler gauge when the external jaw is shut.
I like your idea, though. I'm beginning to wonder if this had to do with some fluke situation, either in oiling or with this lifter having that crater. I really don't want to spend the money on a lifter bore broach for one bore, especially if it's not the cause of the problem.
I may try your trick out. Maybe I can cut it to .905" total with radiused ends and call it good. All I'm really looking for is a tight spot, so that would tell me. If it's loose/ at an angle it's all the same and won't cause it to grab. 906" would be too much I think.
The only thing that wont tell me is how true the bore is (tight wall spot opposing loose wall spot), but it's a start.
When I put the new lifter in, I'm going to check the bore with a light and mirror for contamination, burring or anything odd.
I like your idea, though. I'm beginning to wonder if this had to do with some fluke situation, either in oiling or with this lifter having that crater. I really don't want to spend the money on a lifter bore broach for one bore, especially if it's not the cause of the problem.
I may try your trick out. Maybe I can cut it to .905" total with radiused ends and call it good. All I'm really looking for is a tight spot, so that would tell me. If it's loose/ at an angle it's all the same and won't cause it to grab. 906" would be too much I think.
The only thing that wont tell me is how true the bore is (tight wall spot opposing loose wall spot), but it's a start.
When I put the new lifter in, I'm going to check the bore with a light and mirror for contamination, burring or anything odd.
DaveBonds
Garage Trash
Replacement lifter came in. It's approximately .051" taller, overall, but it appears to be the same height, comparing one plunger seat to another, where it counts. They are identical in diameter to .0002", so that's not a concern.
Should I use it?
The only thought that went through my head is that perhaps oiling would be different on this lobe, but as long as it's sufficient, I don't see why it would make any difference.
Should I use it?
The only thought that went through my head is that perhaps oiling would be different on this lobe, but as long as it's sufficient, I don't see why it would make any difference.
DaveBonds
Garage Trash
This shows the differences, between the lifters that I have.
Height -
Oil ring location -
Plunger designs -
Replacement sent from Hughes on the left, original, shorter lifter on the right.
To be fair, the lifter set that I purchased, was purchased over ten years ago, so I don't blame them on mismatch and I don't even care, as long as it will work properly. My only concern would be possible dissimilar oiling on this lifter or anything causing a chain of events that are irregular on this bank, from the lifter having a higher oil ring. The hole size in the ring is the same size.
Does anyone here have experience with replacing a single lifter that isn't identical, successfully?
Height -
Oil ring location -
Plunger designs -
Replacement sent from Hughes on the left, original, shorter lifter on the right.
To be fair, the lifter set that I purchased, was purchased over ten years ago, so I don't blame them on mismatch and I don't even care, as long as it will work properly. My only concern would be possible dissimilar oiling on this lifter or anything causing a chain of events that are irregular on this bank, from the lifter having a higher oil ring. The hole size in the ring is the same size.
Does anyone here have experience with replacing a single lifter that isn't identical, successfully?
DaveBonds
Garage Trash
Called Tim up at Hughes. Same gig. I figured it wouldn't make much of a difference. He mentioned the oiling hole and as long as it's the same size, it's fine. I figured just as much.
Checked the bore with the wire idea, as per suggested, it seems fine to the guide, but this bore has a relief in the back of it, so I can't check everywhere and it triangulates support around that larger relief in the bore, so I can't do anything to check squareness of the cylinder, without broaching.
Sooo... You're all going to find out if it actually works this round. If I don't see it drop freely in the bore with some light oil, I'll broach it.
I did check access through the head and I am going to pull it back out after break in, with a magnet.
Checked the bore with the wire idea, as per suggested, it seems fine to the guide, but this bore has a relief in the back of it, so I can't check everywhere and it triangulates support around that larger relief in the bore, so I can't do anything to check squareness of the cylinder, without broaching.
Sooo... You're all going to find out if it actually works this round. If I don't see it drop freely in the bore with some light oil, I'll broach it.
I did check access through the head and I am going to pull it back out after break in, with a magnet.
Sounds good ,Dave. I'll stay posted.
Hey Dave, this is a pretty cool read! I just got a 74 Scamp...and also live in Lakewood/Denver (right on the border).
If you ever need any help with anything, let me know. Actually, I may not be of MUCH help, but I'm a younger guy and want to learn about working on these old cars. I can lift heavy ****, if that matters. haha.
If you ever need any help with anything, let me know. Actually, I may not be of MUCH help, but I'm a younger guy and want to learn about working on these old cars. I can lift heavy ****, if that matters. haha.
Hey Dave,
Did you send this one to the Mopar graveyard?
How about an update????
Did you send this one to the Mopar graveyard?
How about an update????
DaveBonds
Garage Trash
Good afternoon.
It's been a minute.
After much hesitation and other priorities/ problems in my path, I have made it a priority to finish this project.
I won't be driving the car anymore, but it's the wrench or yard art, no matter where it goes at this point.
From left to right show my earliest to most recent attempts at break in. Same lifter bore.
I have the tool coming my way to correct the bore, as three different lifters have proven the same results, only with less run time on each, once I noticed the pushrod rotation stopping. Rules out lifter. Cam surface still has no issues.
It rotates about 90° on cold, just enough to build lifter oil pressure and manifold heat, then it stops.
If a bore fix does not take care of it, my two options are a replacement cam and lifter set to possibly correct a foul lobe that I am not seeing or measuring, or a brick on the gas and a reach through the window to the column shifter.
STOP IT!
The picture above looked like an expensive shower valve at first glance.
The picture above looked like an expensive shower valve at first glance.
DaveBonds
Garage Trash
Hahahaha...
I really have nothing to lose at this point.
Each one of these attempts was at idle and shut down immediately after I noticed that it wasn't spinning with the valve cover off, like the others. Nothing is damaged, beyond the light burnishing on the lifter faces.
Cleaning the bore up with the proper tool is next.
Following that, another replacement cam and lifter set with a confirmed, good bore.
DaveBonds
Garage Trash
After that, I'm handing the new old stock key blanks over that I had cut and I'm out.
Until I refinance MY house and place equity in bricks for garage walls, in lieu of gas pedal weights, I have to put on the brakes with Mopar work.
It's good to see that you got your car done.
Until I refinance MY house and place equity in bricks for garage walls, in lieu of gas pedal weights, I have to put on the brakes with Mopar work.
It's good to see that you got your car done.
I wish!
My wife wanted to move so I have been rebuilding our new house. The car, still cool and amazing, is in storage again until I get the house done. Looks like we are on the 5 year plan!
It's nice to see you back here! Sounds like you had a rough go of it for a while.....
My wife wanted to move so I have been rebuilding our new house. The car, still cool and amazing, is in storage again until I get the house done. Looks like we are on the 5 year plan!
It's nice to see you back here! Sounds like you had a rough go of it for a while.....
Love the progress of the new house.
DaveBonds
Garage Trash
Sounds like we are on the same boat.
Let me know if you need anything when you get ready to start wrenching again.
I may be building a turbo 318 '72 Duster from random car parts and a random car that have sort of accumulated over time.
Let me know if you need anything when you get ready to start wrenching again.
I may be building a turbo 318 '72 Duster from random car parts and a random car that have sort of accumulated over time.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
Hey Dave, good to see you back!
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