Builders: Square engine, Over Square, or Under Square for you?

[273]

I had one of the best engine builders I ever knew, back in my late teens/early twenties, warn me on creating a "shove" into the wall. Now we see massive stroker kits

Back in the day I remember everyone worrying about that a strokers were only gonna last x amount of miles and frictional hp loss be so high it won't make it worth it, but seems like time proved that mostly wrong.

But we generally don't have to worry about that since most of our engines come with great bore stroke and rod ratios and since we got engines from 273-440 even a 470 can have optimal ratios were fairly covered you have to go out of your way to build a terrible ratio'd engine. Why I don't overly get the 408, We got 383/400/413/426 stock with ideal bore stroke and rod ratios at a similar displacements but saying that obviously a 408 is a good performer.

 

[rumblefish360]

All fair but I am talking specifically about that single change from a theoretical standpoint. Obviously there would be different parts involved with a bigger piston etc, but on paper, what would that 1.3 sq/in add.

The same answer applies really. You want to add bore size? Or stroke or whatever. But sticking with bore size, 1.3 sq in will add, let’s just say, 5 HP on a stock engine. Add a cam and retest, it’s now a 15 hp difference. Add cylinder heads, let’s say, OOTB Edelbrocks, that’s 15 more? 25 more? Now let’s take away the cam and out the stock one back in, the. Change the …..

You get the point I assume. It’s not an answerable question across the board.

I wasn't talking about a class with rules, just having power at your disposal

You asked a question and more the goal post upon my answer?

What engine do you currently run?

Why even answer him ?
Who the f do you think you are dude?

Well, if you wanna go there…. Who the **** are you to question my reply to someone else? You don’t like what I’m saying to 318WR? Good! Ether ignore me or put a sock in it. Ether way, it’s basically - **** Off. IDGAF.

LMAO!!!!!

 

[rumblefish360]

Go to the bedroom or bathroom and clog the Dolphin for a while.
Click the below for help. Then eat a snickers candy bar.
Perhaps you’ll calm down afterwards?

https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/omg.446298/

 

[Cuda416]

The same answer applies really. You want to add bore size? Or stroke or whatever. But sticking with bore size, 1.3 sq in will add, let’s just say, 5 HP on a stock engine. Add a cam and retest, it’s now a 15 hp difference. Add cylinder heads, let’s say, OOTB Edelbrocks, that’s 15 more? 25 more? Now let’s take away the cam and out the stock one back in, the. Change the …..

You get the point I assume. It’s not an answerable question across the board.

I get what you are saying and yeah, at the end of the day, regardless of whether or not I am starting with a stocker 318 or a maxed out 340, there are too many variables to come up with a "general" equation around the area of the piston (bore) by itself.

 

[rumblefish360]

• Heads Up 1/4 mile Racing. 400 C.I. is the target +/- 3 cubes for all cars. How would you like to get there in YOUR perfect world? What would be your factors in choosing? Or would you build it the same regardless?

Biggest bore, shortest stroke possible.

• Truck Pulls, would it change your selection?

Not in my wheel house stuff. But would a work truck that WORKS due? Then I would just be the most stoke I can get in the block do that makes sense for the intended rpm usage. In other words, I don’t see a need for a 4.15 crank in a 440 inch f the stock stroke gets the job done well. I’m f the stock stroke has a bit of trouble doing its job, then more stroke.

• Family sedan and fuel mileage. ??

Ether 318 or a 350 would do well. But I won’t limit myself to a 3spd auto or a 4spd manual. I’ll use a OD trans and low 3 series gears at most.

I’ve gotten 20 mpg’s out of a 360 n my ‘79 Magnum which was fully loaded minus a sun roof. So the OD can help some and typical tricks will get me more. I’m good with that.

 

[MOPARMAGA]

The same answer applies really. You want to add bore size? Or stroke or whatever. But sticking with bore size, 1.3 sq in will add, let’s just say, 5 HP on a stock engine. Add a cam and retest, it’s now a 15 hp difference. Add cylinder heads, let’s say, OOTB Edelbrocks, that’s 15 more? 25 more? Now let’s take away the cam and out the stock one back in, the. Change the …..

You get the point I assume. It’s not an answerable question across the board.


You asked a question and more the goal post upon my answer?

What engine do you currently run?




Well, if you wanna go there…. Who the **** are you to question my reply to someone else? You don’t like what I’m saying to 318WR? Good! Ether ignore me or put a sock in it. Ether way, it’s basically - **** Off. IDGAF.

LMAO!!!!!

You need a time out.
You can eat a dick also but I know that's what you like anyways.
You like to belittle people only because you're safe behind your computer.
You're a weak boy.
And ignored.

 

[rumblefish360]

You need a time out.
You can eat a dick also but I know that's what you like anyways.
You like to belittle people only because you're safe behind your computer.
You're a weak boy.
And ignored.

Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla…..

You add in your two cents and get push back, then cry about it.
What did you expect?
Then you stoop down to sexual remarks out of know where. Yeaaaaaaa, OK. Shows yourself really well and where your at.
Excellent job.
I’ll belittle you in person if you want!
I am weak. Seems like you want to test that. SURE! Come on over anytime you’re ready. Make sure you have your affairs in order first. But you’ll never show being safe behind your computer throwing out B.S. posts sticking your nose in where it doesn’t belong minding other peoples biz and shouting out garbage and then running behind a couch while still shouting out dumb stuff.

While your celebrating your victory behind the couch, stroking yourself, click this to get more relief.

https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/one-for-the-road.528266/

I’m on ignore?!?!?!

Yeaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!
One less cry baby to deal with.
Excellent!!!!!!

 

[rumblefish360]

And on with the thread as scheduled!

 

[MOPARMAGA]

And on with the thread as scheduled!

My engine, 470 your engine...none.

 

[rumblefish360]

My engine, 470 your engine...none.

If that’s what you think….

OK!

 

[33IMP]

I have NOT read four pages of this thread. , so I don't know if this is for a n/a or power adder application.
But my answer for post #1...
I'd build a aftermarket iron block 400 small block chevy with sb2.2 heads.
Or,
a stroker crank to make 400 inches out of a Nascar dodge (R5,P7 ?)
And then spin either one to the moon.
Theoretically, a 396/402 with big chief heads could make some serious steam, too. Better would be a 4.5-4.6 block with a custom destroker crank to get to 400.

 

[DionR]

I remember an 413/426 Max Wedge super stock racer said Chrysler found 92% Bore stroke ratio to be the ideal power/friction compromise, that was over 30 years ago I read that and based on IDK

Interesting that the 5.7 and 6.4 G3 just about hits that ratio perfectly.

Add that is has a 9.25 deck height, I think.

 

[318willrun]

Pistons today will take more side loading before friction goes too crazy.

This line ^^ Is this due to piston design/ring placement or piston material or both?

 

[318willrun]

Interesting that the 5.7 and 6.4 G3 just about hits that ratio perfectly.

Add that is has a 9.25 deck height, I think.

6.4 is a 392 C.I. There have been some serious HP builds from these engines.

 

[rumblefish360]

6.4 is a 392 C.I. There have been some serious HP builds from these engines.

Have you taken note of that bore and stroke combo?

 

[318willrun]

Have you taken note of that bore and stroke combo?

4.09 x 3.72

... and the 6.2 Hellcat is a de-stroked 6.4 ... 6.2 - 4.09 x 3.58
.... ironically, the 5.7 is a 3.92/3.58 motor. Basically, a 360 crank in a 318

 

[318willrun]

a .030 over 6.4 would put it in the scope of this thread....

 

[Newbomb Turk]

This line ^^ Is this due to piston design/ring placement or piston material or both?

Both. And oils are better. And surface finishes are far better today than they used to be.

If your engine builder isn’t using a profilometer to check his work, find a new machinist

 

[273]

Interesting that the 5.7 and 6.4 G3 just about hits that ratio perfectly.

Add that is has a 9.25 deck height, I think.

Probably figured out they didn't need so tall of a piston.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

6.4 is a 392 C.I. There have been some serious HP builds from these engines.

What also helps the G3 is the raised cam. That allowed the lifter banks to get in line with pushrods and such

 

[fishmens67]

Take a 400 block and add a 3.75 stroke. It don't get much better than that.
You can rev a 451 to the moon if you have the top end to handle it.

 

[273]

4.09 x 3.72

... and the 6.2 Hellcat is a de-stroked 6.4 ... 6.2 - 4.09 x 3.58
.... ironically, the 5.7 is a 3.92/3.58 motor. Basically, a 360 crank in a 318

That's what I like about Chrysler they knew the basic rotating assembly was fine so they basically designed the G3 hemi around that. They basically just keep swapping top end types, you got ploy, LA wedge, Magnum wedge, now hemi, hemi is obviously further removed design wise than the other 3.

 

[273]

Take a 400 block and add a 3.75 stroke. It don't get much better than that.
You can rev a 451 to the moon if you have the top end to handle it.

If I was to build a stroker it probably be 470 is the biggest you can go and keep all the so called ideal bore stroke and rod ratios. I get that the short deck 451 is ideal for the 3.75" stroke but I'd have a problem stroking an engine ($$$$) that ends up same size as a overbored 440

 

[rumblefish360]

4.09 x 3.72

Right! Another way to get there (390 cubes) is the 4.00 arm in a bored out 318. Add a good head and a cam!

... and the 6.2 Hellcat is a de-stroked 6.4 ... 6.2 - 4.09 x 3.58

Hummmm, a 360 crank @ 3.58 into a 340 block bored to 4.100 for a 378.12 or a 6.2. Add a good head & cam!

.... ironically, the 5.7 is a 3.92/3.58 motor. Basically, a 360 crank in a 318

Right! 3.58 (360 crank) into a bored out 318. Might as well go .030 over.

Take a 400 block and add a 3.75 stroke. It don't get much better than that.
You can rev a 451 to the moon if you have the top end to handle it.

Whoaaaa! Careful now!
You’re out of the scope of the 400 +/~3 inch idea.
LMAO

Say… you have a 3.75 in a 383 block correct?
Is the bore size still stock?
IIRC, that’s what you have. I think it’s a rockin combo myself.

 

[33IMP]

Right! Another way to get there (390 cubes) is the 4.00 arm in a bored out 318. Add a good head and a cam!

Hummmm, a 360 crank @ 3.58 into a 340 block bored to 4.100 for a 378.12 or a 6.2. Add a good head & cam!

Right! 3.58 (360 crank) into a bored out 318. Might as well go .030 over.


Whoaaaa! Careful now!
You’re out of the scope of the 400 +/~3 inch idea.
LMAO

Say… you have a 3.75 in a 383 block correct?
Is the bore size still stock?
IIRC, that’s what you have. I think it’s a rockin combo myself.

.030 over 383, with a 440 crank, is 432 inches, same as a .030 over Hemi.