Butters "Winter Upgrades". . Starting a Little Early

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Dantra

Dantra

69 Dart.. AKA Butters
Joined
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Moparty pretty much finished off the 904. I think it might be the converter.. 904 lockups just aren't great. But hey, it made mostly though the summer. Gives me some seat time with Hoopty.

So, since I have most everything for the 8 Speed swap.. Might as well get started. Once it's roughed in, I'll pull the entire drivetrain for some other things that will be coming together.

Few other things gonna happen to.. Frame connectors, brakes and suspension.

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Built motor? 485 wasn't enough horsepower? :)

What's your suspension plans?
 
DionR said:
Built motor? 485 wasn't enough horsepower? :)

What's your suspension plans?
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I haven't drawn the line yet. The motor was coming out and apart, regardless. Happened across a deal that I couldn't pass up, so I picked up another longblock. I clearanced it and sent in for a bore.. 4.100.

I need to talk more with Peter Bergman on suspension. Probably some good bushings, sway and torsion bars.


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I'd go with a heavy sway bar unless you're keeping it for dragstrip purposes. Definitely leaning in those curves.
Love the car. Followed your build.
 
I want add this.. I had the opportunity to hang a little bit with Peter Bergman, at Moparty. We raced, hung out and had a beer or two at the end of the day.. or maybe I had the beer lol. Not one time did he push anything on me or try to sell me anything. The guys around us said "Peter can fix you up" and he might have said "yep", but that was it. It was just a great time with everyone.. Tim (RacerJoe) and Brian (JBrian) are awesome people as well. But it was great to hang with these guys and not feel some obligation or pressure to buy from Peter. I was also able to soak in all kinds of information, just listening to him talk about what cars were doing on the track, giving advice etc. He was there to have fun, just like everyone else.

Guys, I don't know about you.. But that means alot in my book. I've heard the name for years but now that I know the man, he's got my business.
 
Kendog 170 said:
I'd go with a heavy sway bar unless you're keeping it for dragstrip purposes. Definitely leaning in those curves.
Love the car. Followed your build.
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I'm not a full time racer.. I hit the strip when an opportunity arises. I like the idea of a multi talented car :)

I think I kinda like the autox... kinda
 
DionR said:
That's my preference. Not a guarantee, but generally makes for a more enjoyable car to drive depending on what you like.
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While you're here.. What gear ratio with the 8hp and 26" tire did you come up with? 2.94?
 
Dantra said:
While you're here.. What gear ratio with the 8hp and 26" tire did you come up with? 2.94?
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With a 26" tire and a 2.71 rear gear, 65 mph is about 1550 rpm and 75 mph is 1780 rpm, almost matching a new Challenger with the "performance" 3.06 rear gear.
 
Just me personally, I think the a 2.71 rear gear is about the sweet spot for the 8HP70. This gives an overall first gear of 12.71:1. A 727 would need a 5:1 rear gear to match it. A regular 904 would need a 5.19 gear and a deep first 904 would need a 4.64 gear. Just for a comparison.

Something to be aware of is, the tallest ratio I can find for an 8.75" is 3.23:1 in new ring and gear sets. Kind of makes the 2.71 gear I would want a bit of a question.

I found a 2.76:1 for an 8.25", but even the 8.8 and 9.25 are limited to a 3.08 or 3.21 or above.

Used gears are an option, just saying that buying new setup might pose a problem.

Here's a calculator you can play with:

Gear Ratios Calculator, MPH, Top Speed - DragTimes.com

gear ratio and top speed calculations.
www.dragtimes.com
 
DionR said:
Just me personally, I think the a 2.71 rear gear is about the sweet spot for the 8HP70. This gives an overall first gear of 12.71:1. A 727 would need a 5:1 rear gear to match it. A regular 904 would need a 5.19 gear and a deep first 904 would need a 4.64 gear. Just for a comparison.

Something to be aware of is, the tallest ratio I can find for an 8.75" is 3.23:1 in new ring and gear sets. Kind of makes the 2.71 gear I would want a bit of a question.

I found a 2.76:1 for an 8.25", but even the 8.8 and 9.25 are limited to a 3.08 or 3.21 or above.

Used gears are an option, just saying that buying new setup might pose a problem.

Here's a calculator you can play with:

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I'm running an 8.8.. I've seen the all tire calculators, conversations and debates. I've got 3.55s in Hoopty with a pretty tall tires. It's a bit aggressive but fun and the highway cruize is sweet. 1st gear is good for about 10 feet lol. Just wondering if had any actual seat time in anything yet. I think 2.73 is max in 8.8 with traction loc.. Final drive gear isn't my main concern. 1st has gotta be usable because I'll be on a dial shifter unless I add paddles
 
What size tires are on Hoopty?

Other than a rental Challenger 5.7/8A, I don't have much personal experience but I will say it was lots of fun. I know a 2.71 or similar should match up well with a 26" tire and feel like a Challenger R/T with the 3.06 and those have a plenty usable 1st gear.
 
DionR said:
What size tires are on Hoopty?

Other than a rental Challenger 5.7/8A, I don't have much personal experience but I will say it was lots of fun. I know a 2.71 or similar should match up well with a 26" tire and feel like a Challenger R/T with the 3.06 and those have a plenty usable 1st gear.
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Honestly, I don't remember exactly... 275/60s maybe. They're something like 28" tall. I've been watching for a deal on a open 8-3/4 3.08 to pop up. I'll swap it out eventually. Definitely don't need a locker in Hoopty.
 
Dantra said:
Honestly, I don't remember exactly... 275/60s maybe. They're something like 28" tall. I've been watching for a deal on a open 8-3/4 3.08 to pop up. I'll swap it out eventually. Definitely don't need a locker in Hoopty.
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A challenger runs a 28.6" tall tire so not far off.

Straight ratios, the 8HP/3.06 combo runs a 14.13 overall first gear ratio. If you factor for the tire size difference, Hoopty is like running a 17.08 overall first gear in a Challenger.

Comparing Hoopty to Butters with a 26" tire and a 3.21/3.23 ratio would feel the same.

So a 2.71 or similar would feel like a stock Challenger and a 3.21/3.23 would be too much. So there's your range. :D

Looks like a 3.08 would be a nice combo in Hoopty.
 
Dantra said:
I'm not a full time racer.. I hit the strip when an opportunity arises. I like the idea of a multi talented car :)

I think I kinda like the autox... kinda
Click to expand...
I previously ran a 1.08 t-bar, Hotchkis shocks, and their sway bars. You will read online that big bars will beat you to death. That statement couldn't be more false. If you have a good shock to control the spring rate a big bar offers, you will be good. You will also be amazed at how just a larger bar, good shocks, and sway bars make an enormous difference not only in performance handling, but in normal everyday driving. I'm sure Peter will tell you the same. If you thought autocross was fun with a stock suspension, you just wait until you can give it the beans into the corner!
 
Dantra said:
I want add this.. I had the opportunity to hang a little bit with Peter Bergman, at Moparty. We raced, hung out and had a beer or two at the end of the day.. or maybe I had the beer lol. Not one time did he push anything on me or try to sell me anything. The guys around us said "Peter can fix you up" and he might have said "yep", but that was it. It was just a great time with everyone.. Tim (RacerJoe) and Brian (JBrian) are awesome people as well. But it was great to hang with these guys and not feel some obligation or pressure to buy from Peter. I was also able to soak in all kinds of information, just listening to him talk about what cars were doing on the track, giving advice etc. He was there to have fun, just like everyone else.

Guys, I don't know about you.. But that means alot in my book. I've heard the name for years but now that I know the man, he's got my business.
Click to expand...
I'm likely responsible for the pressure to do autocross. Sorry, not sorry.
 
Chop chop.. Roughed in. I'm back and forth on the HDK x member or just fab'n it up myself. Trying to save $$ where I can.. Still have a ways to go.

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racerjoe said:
I previously ran a 1.08 t-bar, Hotchkis shocks, and their sway bars. You will read online that big bars will beat you to death. That statement couldn't be more false. If you have a good shock to control the spring rate a big bar offers, you will be good. You will also be amazed at how just a larger bar, good shocks, and sway bars make an enormous difference not only in performance handling, but in normal everyday driving. I'm sure Peter will tell you the same. If you thought autocross was fun with a stock suspension, you just wait until you can give it the beans into the corner!
Click to expand...
I like beans in the corner
 
Dantra said:
Chop chop.. Roughed in. I'm back and forth on the HDK x member or just fab'n it up myself. Trying to save $$ where I can.. Still have a ways to go.

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Oh wow! Had no idea you planned to get started cutting already. You mentioned the plug and proximity to the crossmember and I assumed you were just eyeballing things.

At this rate you might be able to drive it with the 8HP before winter. :D
 
DionR said:
Oh wow! Had no idea you planned to get started cutting already. You mentioned the plug and proximity to the crossmember and I assumed you were just eyeballing things.

At this rate you might be able to drive it with the 8HP before winter. :D
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A test drive would be nice.. But my plan is to blow it all apart, once the trans is all mocked up. Plenty to do...
 
I have a 70 Challenger, and the 8.75 742 center section I believe has a 2.74 gear.
So there is hope for the gears you are looking for.
 
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