Butters "Winter Upgrades". . Starting a Little Early

[Dantra]

Leaf season is heavily upon me and is eating up most of my weekends. We live in a heavily wooded area.. The woods. Ironically, Saturday, my wife wanted to go drive through Brown County Park and look at.. The leaves and trees lol. I enjoy the time with her, so no complaints. The views there, really are nice but the tress weren't quite at their peak yet. When they are, it really is amazing.

Anyway, Dottie and I did find a little time to remove the back seat, rear carpet and the dreaded AC unit. I'll be welding in subfrane connectors and don't need any fires.

The AC unit is such a beast! 36" long, 11 or so inches deep and probably 12" tall. In Hindsight, it would've been easier to pull prior to increasing the tunnel size lol. Tight! It really wasn't until I realized that the stock ac wasn't going to allow me to run a electronic pedal (Previously bellcrank) that I was going to pull it. When I saw that, I decided that I wasn't gonna fight it and just get an aftermarket system.. It was kinda meh at best anyway.

Once dottie and I had it out.. She insisted that it was play time!

 

[340sFastback]

I had to pull heat AC boxes out of mine to fab up custom trans tunnel for a T56 Magnum 6 spd. Once heat AC back in only 1/8 clearance between heat ducts and tunnel had to squeeze carpet under there. Those factory AC with heat ducts close to trans tunnel can present a lot of challenges for the over drive trans swaps.

 

[Dantra]

I had to pull heat AC boxes out of mine to fab up custom trans tunnel for a T56 Magnum 6 spd. Once heat AC back in only 1/8 clearance between heat ducts and tunnel had to squeeze carpet under there. Those factory AC with heat ducts close to trans tunnel can present a lot of challenges for the over drive trans swaps.

I slid the carpet under there, while trying to figure some kinda console out (bad idea). The carpet did fit without the padding. The biggest issue is there just no way that my electronic pedal was gonna fit. AC Box, right smack dab in the way. I'm getting away from the Bouchillon bellcrank setup with the 8 speed install.

 

[85glht]

Leaf season is heavily upon me and is eating up most of my weekends. We live in a heavily wooded area.. The woods. Ironically, Saturday, my wife wanted to go drive through Brown County Park and look at.. The leaves and trees lol. I enjoy the time with her, so no complaints. The views there, really are nice but the tress weren't quite at their peak yet. When they are, it really is amazing.

Anyway, Dottie and I did find a little time to remove the back seat, rear carpet and the dreaded AC unit. I'll be welding in subfrane connectors and don't need any fires.

The AC unit is such a beast! 36" long, 11 or so inches deep and probably 12" tall. In Hindsight, it would've been easier to pull prior to increasing the tunnel size lol. Tight! It really wasn't until I realized that the stock ac wasn't going to allow me to run a electronic pedal (Previously bellcrank) that I was going to pull it. When I saw that, I decided that I wasn't gonna fight it and just get an aftermarket system.. It was kinda meh at best anyway.

Once dottie and I had it out.. She insisted that it was play time!

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At least you had "help" Such a good girl!!

 

[racerjoe]

Leaf season is heavily upon me and is eating up most of my weekends. We live in a heavily wooded area.. The woods. Ironically, Saturday, my wife wanted to go drive through Brown County Park and look at.. The leaves and trees lol. I enjoy the time with her, so no complaints. The views there, really are nice but the tress weren't quite at their peak yet. When they are, it really is amazing.

Anyway, Dottie and I did find a little time to remove the back seat, rear carpet and the dreaded AC unit. I'll be welding in subfrane connectors and don't need any fires.

The AC unit is such a beast! 36" long, 11 or so inches deep and probably 12" tall. In Hindsight, it would've been easier to pull prior to increasing the tunnel size lol. Tight! It really wasn't until I realized that the stock ac wasn't going to allow me to run a electronic pedal (Previously bellcrank) that I was going to pull it. When I saw that, I decided that I wasn't gonna fight it and just get an aftermarket system.. It was kinda meh at best anyway.

Once dottie and I had it out.. She insisted that it was play time!

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Do yourself a favor and put some dynomat (or some version of it) on the floor when you're done welding. I recently added some extra jute type insulation on the front floor pans to help keep the heat down from the headers. It make a huge improvement. The console used to get so hot I couldn't lean my leg on it. It stays nice and cool now.

 

[85glht]

Do yourself a favor and put some dynomat (or some version of it) on the floor when you're done welding. I recently added some extra jute type insulation on the front floor pans to help keep the heat down from the headers. It make a huge improvement. The console used to get so hot I couldn't lean my leg on it. It stays nice and cool now.

Helps keep the noise down too

 

[Dantra]

Do yourself a favor and put some dynomat (or some version of it) on the floor when you're done welding. I recently added some extra jute type insulation on the front floor pans to help keep the heat down from the headers. It make a huge improvement. The console used to get so hot I couldn't lean my leg on it. It stays nice and cool now.

Yup, definitely. I tossed that silver stuff in last year when I was coating the floors and putting new carpet in. Had it laying around. Pita to get out but I'm gonna put killmat or dynamat back in place.

 

[DionR]

I've been ruminating on your desire to keep the bench. Maybe you have already given up on it, but I keep thinking about it. Then I tripped over an add for a Lokar shifter that incorporates an electronic rooster comb for shifting electronic transmissions like the 6L80E and it sparked an idea for. And no, they don't show anything for an 8HP.

What if you left the column shift mechanism in place and mounted the floor shifter for the 8HP someplace remotely and shifted it using a cable off the column shift arm? You would have to remove the detents in the 8HP shifter and wouldn't have access to the +/- shifting but maybe it would work?

Just an idea.

 

[Dantra]

I've been ruminating on your desire to keep the bench. Maybe you have already given up on it, but I keep thinking about it. Then I tripped over an add for a Lokar shifter that incorporates an electronic rooster comb for shifting electronic transmissions like the 6L80E and it sparked an idea for. And no, they don't show anything for an 8HP.

What if you left the column shift mechanism in place and mounted the floor shifter for the 8HP someplace remotely and shifted it using a cable off the column shift arm? You would have to remove the detents in the 8HP shifter and wouldn't have access to the +/- shifting but maybe it would work?

Just an idea.

I considered doing something like that with a dial. Space is always a battle with these cars, as you know. Also thought about using a dial behind the dash with an extension rod attached to it, so the rod would poke out the dash.. Put a stock bezel and knob on the rod, so it appears to be just another dash switch of some kind. Still a rotary, just with a better look.

Blake at Sublime, really liked a stock ish console idea that I was working on but I just couldn't accept it. It just looked wrong. I think the shape is most of the problem. Then he said he had an idea.. Just do a boot like "Justin" did. The difference is that my shifter will appear to be a stock 69 shifter instead of the pistol grip and the crazy long throw.

 

[DionR]

I considered doing something like that with a dial. Space is always a battle with these cars, as you know. Also thought about using a dial behind the dash with an extension rod attached to it, so the rod would poke out the dash.. Put a stock bezel and knob on the rod, so it appears to be just another dash switch of some kind. Still a rotary, just with a better look.

Blake at Sublime, really liked a stock ish console idea that I was working on but I just couldn't accept it. It just looked wrong. I think the shape is most of the problem. Then he said he had an idea.. Just do a boot like "Justin" did. The difference is that my shifter will appear to be a stock 69 shifter instead of the pistol grip and the crazy long throw.

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So are you moving away from your bench seat?

I wonder how compact the stock 8HP shifter could be made. Guessing it is just a position sensor and CANBus encoder. Sure seems like someone could make a business out of it. Run the cable through the clutch rod hole in the firewall and mount it vertically to the fire wall. Maybe just a 2"x2"x6" box?

Ah well, just another wild idea to go with all the others I don't have a way to build.

 

[Dantra]

So are you moving away from your bench seat?

I wonder how compact the stock 8HP shifter could be made. Guessing it is just a position sensor and CANBus encoder. Sure seems like someone could make a business out of it. Run the cable through the clutch rod hole in the firewall and mount it vertically to the fire wall. Maybe just a 2"x2"x6" box?

Ah well, just another wild idea to go with all the others I don't have a way to build.

Actually, Russel at Sound German, is working on it (push button shifter). I saw a video on his page the other day of a prototype in testing.. It's "one" of the things he's been working on.

Definitely keeping the bench. I'll just run the 8hp shifter with a boot and a stock appearing handle/knob.. Look how many manual cars came out with a floor shift. So it'll be a similar look.

I'll mock it up and see how it looks.. If I don't like it, I'll go with the dash knob dial idea and paddles

 

[Dantra]

At least you had "help" Such a good girl!!

I told her that you were her biggest fan.. she struck a pose just for you.

 

[DionR]

Actually, Russel at Sound German, is working on it (push button shifter). I saw a video on his page the other day of a prototype in testing.. It's "one" of the things he's been working on.

Definitely keeping the bench. I'll just run the 8hp shifter with a boot and a stock appearing handle/knob.. Look how many manual cars came out with a floor shift. So it'll be a similar look.

Ah! I see it now.

 

[DionR]

For what it's worth, I saw the picture of the cut down console on FB and couldn't decide how I felt about it so I didn't comment. I think I like your shifter boot idea better, now that you mention it.

 

[clementine]

I want add this.. I had the opportunity to hang a little bit with Peter Bergman, at Moparty. We raced, hung out and had a beer or two at the end of the day.. or maybe I had the beer lol. Not one time did he push anything on me or try to sell me anything. The guys around us said "Peter can fix you up" and he might have said "yep", but that was it. It was just a great time with everyone.. Tim (RacerJoe) and Brian (JBrian) are awesome people as well. But it was great to hang with these guys and not feel some obligation or pressure to buy from Peter. I was also able to soak in all kinds of information, just listening to him talk about what cars were doing on the track, giving advice etc. He was there to have fun, just like everyone else.

Guys, I don't know about you.. But that means alot in my book. I've heard the name for years but now that I know the man, he's got my business.

I recently had a similar experience with Brewers over the phone as i deal with some of my clutch problems. Sorry off topic, but another vendor not selling me stuff i don’t need immediately.

Now back to your regular scheduled programming.

Cool build.

 

[85glht]

I told her that you were her biggest fan.. she struck a pose just for you.

 

[Dantra]

Yard work has eaten up my weekends but I've got a bunch of Vaca time to burn up by the end of the year.. 3 weeks since I can only carry over so much. So next week I'm off with plenty to catch up on.. I have everything to assemble the new shortblock, material to do subframe connectors, I could pull the 6.4 or work on the AC.. New one came in. Not sure which direction I'll go.. Adhd, take the wheel!

 

[Map63Vette]

Which A/C system is that? I've had my eyes on the Classic Auto Air setup for a while, but keep putting it off. I like the CAA setup because it kept the factory controls and I like how it routed all the lines through the original blower motor hole in the firewall, but I know I'm likely going to mod it a little regardless as I don't like how it runs the compressor at every temperature but max heat. Easy enough to just add a toggle in-line on the compressor circuit though. I also have a display right in the center at the bottom of my dash, but have no radio, so was going to see about putting vents where the radio used to go so they'd be up higher where they would blow on me better anyway.

 

[Dantra]

Which A/C system is that? I've had my eyes on the Classic Auto Air setup for a while, but keep putting it off. I like the CAA setup because it kept the factory controls and I like how it routed all the lines through the original blower motor hole in the firewall, but I know I'm likely going to mod it a little regardless as I don't like how it runs the compressor at every temperature but max heat. Easy enough to just add a toggle in-line on the compressor circuit though. I also have a display right in the center at the bottom of my dash, but have no radio, so was going to see about putting vents where the radio used to go so they'd be up higher where they would blow on me better anyway.

It's a CCA system. Butters is a factory air car, so I'll need to make a firewall adapter and I picked up some non AC controls. I don't know that it runs the compressor at all times tho.

I priced out a few ways and it's comparable to just piecing together one of their other universal kits.. The deciding factor for me was size. I made some cardboard boxes the same size as their other stuff and just didn't care for how big they were. It's pretty compact.. wayyyy smaller than the oem I had before and half the weight.

In case you haven't skimmed through the install...
https://www.classicautoair.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/1-3062-INSTALLATION-04-11-24.pdf

 

[bjkadron]

Yard work has eaten up my weekends but I've got a bunch of Vaca time to burn up by the end of the year.. 3 weeks since I can only carry over so much. So next week I'm off with plenty to catch up on.. I have everything to assemble the new shortblock, material to do subframe connectors, I could pull the 6.4 or work on the AC.. New one came in. Not sure which direction I'll go.. Adhd, take the wheel!

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Not sure how I missed this thread. These are some big upgrades!

Also curious about this system. How big is it compared to the stock box? it looks a lot smaller.

 

[Map63Vette]

It's a CCA system. Butters is a factory air car, so I'll need to make a firewall adapter and I picked up some non AC controls. I don't know that it runs the compressor at all times tho.

I priced out a few ways and it's comparable to just piecing together one of their other universal kits.. The deciding factor for me was size. I made some cardboard boxes the same size as their other stuff and just didn't care for how big they were. It's pretty compact.. wayyyy smaller than the oem I had before and half the weight.

In case you haven't skimmed through the install...
https://www.classicautoair.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/1-3062-INSTALLATION-04-11-24.pdf

This was from the manual for their "Smart series" for a 67 install at least (what I was looking at for my car's controls):

Shows the compressor pretty much on all the time, which I get because you use it to dehumidify the air, but I rarely run my car at full heat. My factory heat only with only floor vents will make me sweat in the middle of winter if I run it at max heat, even with my leaky/non-existent weatherstripping.

I basically just want a heat/cool toggle switch so I can pick when I want the compressor to run since I would be wiring it through my Megasquirt to provide A/C idle up and to run one of my electric fans for better cooling. I don't want the compressor and fan running in the middle of winter if I want less than full heat. My plan was to just put a toggle switch on the compressor clutch line to be able to manually turn it on and off, easy enough.

I'm actually debating if I want to be really silly and control the box through my Raspberry Pi. I'm 99% sure the mode and temp sensors in the kit are just potentiometers of some variety. Whether they provide 12v or 5v back to the controller is the biggest question, but an easy enough one to solve with a multimeter. I'm half tempted to put a cabin temp sensor in the car and make my own automatic climate control where the Pi watches the cabin temp and commands the box to adjust accordingly.

I am curious to see how your engine side install goes though. I finally got a factory compressor for my older 5.7, so I was going to see about getting a non-crimped kit from them so I could make my lines the right size. I know I'll need some different vents if I want to do my radio idea as well, but those are cheap enough and I think I can 3D print some adapters to make it work if needed.

 

[Dantra]

This was from the manual for their "Smart series" for a 67 install at least (what I was looking at for my car's controls):
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Shows the compressor pretty much on all the time, which I get because you use it to dehumidify the air, but I rarely run my car at full heat. My factory heat only with only floor vents will make me sweat in the middle of winter if I run it at max heat, even with my leaky/non-existent weatherstripping.

I basically just want a heat/cool toggle switch so I can pick when I want the compressor to run since I would be wiring it through my Megasquirt to provide A/C idle up and to run one of my electric fans for better cooling. I don't want the compressor and fan running in the middle of winter if I want less than full heat. My plan was to just put a toggle switch on the compressor clutch line to be able to manually turn it on and off, easy enough.

I'm actually debating if I want to be really silly and control the box through my Raspberry Pi. I'm 99% sure the mode and temp sensors in the kit are just potentiometers of some variety. Whether they provide 12v or 5v back to the controller is the biggest question, but an easy enough one to solve with a multimeter. I'm half tempted to put a cabin temp sensor in the car and make my own automatic climate control where the Pi watches the cabin temp and commands the box to adjust accordingly.

I am curious to see how your engine side install goes though. I finally got a factory compressor for my older 5.7, so I was going to see about getting a non-crimped kit from them so I could make my lines the right size. I know I'll need some different vents if I want to do my radio idea as well, but those are cheap enough and I think I can 3D print some adapters to make it work if needed.

I'll keep the switch in mind.. Thanks for the info. I never really thought about the compressor actually running like that.

 

[Map63Vette]

I'll keep the switch in mind.. Thanks for the info. I never really thought about the compressor actually running like that.

I only cared because I'm planning to run it through my MS for the added features I can have with that. On an older can with a mechanically driven fan it would probably not matter that much, but since I have electric and wanted to use those to make the condenser work better I didn't want them running all the time. I actually have dual fans, but I've wired them independently so the A/C would only turn on one. Excited to see how it goes for you either way though. I've searched around to try to find install and impression threads and videos of the system, but most of them are on the later model cars. Not that it probably makes a huge difference, but always nice to see something closer to what you have to compare.

 

[Dantra]

I only cared because I'm planning to run it through my MS for the added features I can have with that. On an older can with a mechanically driven fan it would probably not matter that much, but since I have electric and wanted to use those to make the condenser work better I didn't want them running all the time. I actually have dual fans, but I've wired them independently so the A/C would only turn on one. Excited to see how it goes for you either way though. I've searched around to try to find install and impression threads and videos of the system, but most of them are on the later model cars. Not that it probably makes a huge difference, but always nice to see something closer to what you have to compare.

I run dual fans through the 6.4 ECU. Sublime has a provision for AC but it's basically just a relay that kicks on the compressor through the factory harness.. just needs a 12v trigger from the AC on switch. My fans don't kick on with the compressor, so I typically wait until they kick on before turning on the AC. That needs to change tho. I'm waiting on a answer about being able to trigger the fans with the ac, without it somehow backfeeding into the ECU and causing damage. I'll try to get plenty of pics and maybe some video of it all.. Won't charge it till spring tho.

 

[Map63Vette]

I run dual fans through the 6.4 ECU. Sublime has a provision for AC but it's basically just a relay that kicks on the compressor through the factory harness.. just needs a 12v trigger from the AC on switch. My fans don't kick on with the compressor, so I typically wait until they kick on before turning on the AC. That needs to change tho. I'm waiting on a answer about being able to trigger the fans with the ac, without it somehow backfeeding into the ECU and causing damage. I'll try to get plenty of pics and maybe some video of it all.. Won't charge it till spring tho.

My car is quickly going from "spends most of its time under a cover" to daily driver thanks to my new job, so this mod has moved its way up my priority list for next year. So far it's just been new tires and a set of tubular upper control arms to get better caster for highway driving (hopefully getting installed this weekend), along with a fair amount of messing with my tunes and interior display stuff. Frame connectors are probably the next thing I'll try to tackle before then, hopefully before the weather turns on me too much.