Buyer Beware - Rick Ehrenberg

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Rick has his reply posted on FBBO, I'll copy it here so you can see I'm not a complete DB, but Kerndog is entitled to his opinion of me.
"Ed-
I am driving a 1970 V-code Road Runner from New York to San Francisco at the moment, so my reply will be brief. I have not had the benefit of seeing his post, I'm just responding to what you mentioned.

In the spring of last year, we sold this guy a professionally rebuilt 72 340, 0.030" o/s, forged crank and pistons, that was done by a well known Mopar pro shop a while back. (The builder is deceased). It was a cammed-up, single-plane semi-drag motor, and he was aware of that. Big tube tti headers were part of the package but he declined them. Great for a 3,000 lb A-body, but he was insistent on putting it in a pig heavy 73 or 74 b-body. He had us change the intake manifold to a dual plane, which made the combo even worse, because it was a manifold with no high RPM Power, and a cam with no low end. But he hadda have a 340. OK, whatever.

When he came to pick it up we used a borescope to look at each cylinder wall and piston top. We read the numbers on the pistons and looked at the cylinder walls which were perfect - flawless, like jewelry. He agreed. You could see the crosshatch. The engine had been sealed tight.

So he decides to break it in with synthetic oil, and, no surprise, the rings don't seat. Then started a long email chain; he had this so-called engine builder pull it apart, and he sent me an e-mail, which I have, where he said everything looked perfect inside. I had given him many suggestions as to how to get the rings to seat, but never got a reply or response to any of those points. He also doesn't live all that far from me, but never showed me the car. Or even called.

Months later, actually over a year, he sends another email, now the cylinder walls are suddenly rusty. Huh? And the block needs to be sleeved? Even assuming everything he says is correct, why not 0.040" oversize? Got no response to that either - deaf ear syndrome.

Then he decides he wants a 360, which he has built by his buddy, but he uses a bunch of parts from the 340 he bought from us, including the connecting rods, heads, valve gear, manifold, etc etc. Without saying a word to me.

I am not saying he is a bad person; just that he has gotten a lot of really bad "advice and help". This started, I presume, when he was told a 340 was good for his application. I guess he has finally awakened to the smell of the coffee, and figured out that a 360 is far superior in a heavy car. Had it been mine, it would have had a 408 from day one.

So now it is a year and a half later. And he wants $1,000 back?

When pigs fly.

Rick

PS to Ed...please post all of the above...thanks VERY much!"
 
Thanks for all your comments. Some of you have dealt with me over the years, most have not. A few salient details:
- I'm not going to say how much I paid for the rebuilt motor, but it was not top dollar, nor was it $600. Since Rick put it out there how much I was looking for in compensation, you can do the math.
- Rick said the engine builder died several years ago (well known in Mopar racing circles in southern NY/CT). He (Rick) specced the motor for the builder. From Rick, via email correspondence on 6/16/17: "I didn't build it, but I know the guy who did, well respected, real Mopar guy, now pushing up daisies. I have 100% confidence in it."
- I told Rick I did not think he personally left the engine exposed to have that much condensation accumulate.
- And because it ran, I'm not looking for a full refund (why would I?)
- Rick was made aware about this back in July, but he was having some personal issues so I gave him 60 days out of respect for that before I asked for some compensation.

While I do not disagree with caveat emptor, I treat people the way I want to be treated. He said he'd stand behind it, and that's where I draw the line. He never countered with anything (money or parts), even though I gave him several attempts to do so. Its a cold world.
 
What we will never know is : did you pre-oil the engine before starting ? My motor sat for 2 years on the East Coast 7 miles from the ocean . It was sealed up and I pre-oiled the motor for 20 minutes , drained it off , refilled it , pre-oiled it again , put in in car , primed the fuel system and it started on the second crank . From I see it is the result of the "lack of lubrication" syndrome .
 
Well I'm sure if you spent good money on a engine. You would store it inside. Looking at those cylinder walls I believe he owes you something. Hey, their is a such thing as Karma. What comes around goes around.
 
Guaranteeing used/rebuilt? mechanical parts is a slippery slope. IF a person guarantees something, he should stand behind it, within reason, right. Best to never quarantee someone else's work and parts,
 
Ill continue to break in thick ring high tension old school rough RA cylinders with dino oil, and Ill leave the $7/qt synthetics to the super smooth ultra light tension ring modern mills or the seasoned older builds. Its coming out in hours anyway, right? Of course hearing the other side's facts now puts this entire thing on its head. I've heard enough "he said, she said" on TV to last me a few married years.
 
in general: you hone it for what ever rings your going to run. use the oil the ring mfg says or you get what you get. don't know what's in it? tear it down


example: "ImPo RTan T n o TIc e: • If using Hypereutectic Pistons, follow piston manufacturers ring end gap specifications. • Quickseat® is the recommended cylinder wall lubricant for ring installation. Piston skirts should be lightly lubricated with AL-4 or engine oil. Remember excessive or improper lubricating of the rings may prevent them from sealing. • During engine break-in, use petroleum based motor oils only. Synthetic oils may be used after break-in cycle is complete. • Total Seal does not recommend hard chromed compression or hard chromed oil rings be installed in chromed or nickel coated cylinders. For these applications call for recommendations."
 
pishta said:
Ill continue to break in thick ring high tension old school rough RA cylinders with dino oil, and Ill leave the $7/qt synthetics to the super smooth ultra light tension ring modern mills or the seasoned older builds. Its coming out in hours anyway, right? Of course hearing the other side's facts now puts this entire thing on its head. I've heard enough "he said, she said" on TV to last me a few married years.
Click to expand...

I actually don't run synthetic in anything........but I might in this latest project I am working on, because as you and I have discussed, it's not going to be naturally aspirated. ;)
 
You might have had a at least semi realistic claim...before you decided to use some of the parts and offer back the pieces you don't want for a refund. That's a big "not gonna happen" in my book.

Big difference in the two statements about the initial inspection.
Did you look at all the cyls or just 2?
Descriptions seem to be of 2 different things...
 
1st I'll say I always tell buyers NOT to buy a crate engine or if it's used it must be at least partially disassembled for inspection.Now,,,,even if every cylinder were not looked at,rust and pitting would have been evident.So,,,,,IMO this rust occurred after the purchase.
I am surprised the buyer did not even "go through" the used engine before installation!
Rick has been around this hobby a long time and so have I:realcrazy:
Have NEVER heard a bad word about Rick and was surprised to read the beginning of this thread.
 
Who buys a used engine and doesnt tear it apart like a kid on Christmas morning anyway? Oh well.
 
Lessen learned. In the future tear it down if you plan on buying it, Offer half the money or walk away!
 
yeah it sucks that this happened , I don't think anyone will ever know exactly what led up to those terrible cylinder walls. ive broke in my last two motors on pure synthetic without any problems whatsoever. all I know is this is exactly why I put together my own **** and will never buy someone elses " brand new never ran rebuilt" mystery motor no matter how famous or well known someone is. should have got it writing , otherwise it's just all hearsay
 
Bulldozer said:
I don't think anyone will ever know exactly what led up to those terrible cylinder walls.
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The following is a segment from the posted email:
"So he decides to break it in with synthetic oil, and, no surprise, the rings don't seat. Then started a long email chain; he had this so-called engine builder pull it apart, and he sent me an e-mail, which I have, where he said everything looked perfect inside. .......

Months later, actually over a year, he sends another email, now the cylinder walls are suddenly rusty. Huh? And the block needs to be sleeved?"
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With this, if we are to believe Ricks words, the engine looked fine at time of purchase and after teardown. After sitting for over a year unassembled, the bores developed rust pitting.
How is that in any way the fault of the seller?
Forget for a moment any other evidence, forget my opinions, etc....Just consider this one bit of info. Who is liable for damages this long after a sale and after disassembly? Is a seller supposed to provide "cradle to grave" support no matter how much a buyer modifies, alters or neglects an item?
 
The length of time that past would have me also not wanting to make anything good. That said, if I told someone I would stand behind, I would. I would work hard to come to some kind of an agreement that wouldn't be too hard on either of us. I believe that would be fair.
 
Kern Dog said:
consider this one bit of info. Who is liable for damages this long after a sale and after disassembly? Is a seller supposed to provide "cradle to grave" support no matter how much a buyer modifies, alters or neglects an item?
Click to expand...
truth is , nobody really knows what all went on between the time it was bought and then taken apart and subsequently determined to have been purchased in that condition. in my world , I call that a wash because too much time has passed and there's no telling what could have happened. if it was a week or two after it was bought , sure
 
a hand shake and mans word used to stand for something.not anymore.im sorry about you problems.lesson learned
 
Really? You'd refund money for something years later even after the buyer took it apart and left it vulnerable to rot?
Please...I ask that you never try to buy anything from me. You sound like a customer that wants it all and refuses to take personal responsibility for your mistakes.
 
The OP nullified any help or good faith warranty when he and/or his "mechanic" opened it up, "ball honed" it and then parted it out to build a 360.
 
I have been using synthetic oil in every engine I’ve put together since early 80s weather just a re ring job or a full on built engine. I never had a problem with the rings not wanting to seat. Kim
 
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