Calling all corner carvers!

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black954 said:
My pan came today, about 26 hours after I ordered it. Looks fine to me. I agree the welds leave a little to be desired, but it’s an oil pan that mostly won’t ever get seen. For the cost savings, I’m happy. This engine is supposed to last me a few years until my 340 is built. That engine will be a full on race build with high end components, high RPM, and more importantly a dry sump oil system. Now I’m just trying to get this car driving for the summer so I can dial it in.
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Is there any baffling or doors in the side pods? From the one pic it looks like just front to rear?
 
I have the Milodon pan. On the track it still isn’t enough to prevent starvation in all conditions. Must use an accumulator too.
 
Pocono and Optima NJMP

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GMachineDartGT said:
Most of the events I’ve done are open track.
I’ve done run to the shore, optima 2x and track days at Pocono, NJMP, Lime Rock and Monticello.
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That’s awesome! I was curious if there was an issue more with auto cross since its much tighter and quicker back and forth. But looks like there’s still concerns on open tracks as well.
 
Autox is violent but fast so less of an issue.

Open track can have a high g sweeper at high rpm. That’s where you need the oil control.
 
GMachineDartGT said:
Autox is violent but fast so less of an issue.

Open track can have a high g sweeper at high rpm. That’s where you need the oil control.
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Makes sense. I plan on driving Road America in Wisconsin and there’s a huge fast carousel there. I don’t know much about oil accumulators, but I’ know guys have ran them for a long long time. I’ll have to look into them.
 
silverex said:
GMachineDartGT

Do you have a built tread of your car?
Or specs sheet?
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No build thread as over the 35 years it’s evolved. Never really off the road for a make over. Some quick specs:
410,11.3 hyd roller, ported Edelbrocks
833, 3.09 first 1:1 top gear
Alum driveshaft, 1350 joints
A body 8.75, 2.94, Eaton tru trac
1.12 t bars
Hotchkiss shocks and sway bars
BAC/SPC upper arms
Eaton springs
14” front brakes, 11.75” rears
BAC steering and delrin lca bushings
 
I bought these in 93 direct from Flofit. They are no longer in business. This company supplied Saleen during the Fox body Mustang days.
 
black954 said:
Close to ride height

View attachment 1715502249
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what are the exact specs and where you buy those rims?

My build is somewhat similar to yours expect Im planing on a qa1 k member with qa1 lower and spc top, qa1 strut ,I don't know what brakes yet for fronts, gts gerst 4link, vikings shocks in front and back, backs I'm leaving the 12" drums they came with, pst polygraphite super front end kit, 11/16" pst aluminum tie rod sleeves, the borgeson box but I'm not sure which one yet theres too many, firm feel 1.12 and front sway bar, then usct lvl 2 chassis stiffening. idk if it will all work yet but thats all of it. hope to hear from you thanks
 
black954 said:
My pan came today, about 26 hours after I ordered it. Looks fine to me. I agree the welds leave a little to be desired, but it’s an oil pan that mostly won’t ever get seen. For the cost savings, I’m happy. This engine is supposed to last me a few years until my 340 is built. That engine will be a full on race build with high end components, high RPM, and more importantly a dry sump oil system. Now I’m just trying to get this car driving for the summer so I can dial it in.
Click to expand...

We used pans from everyone on Tim's Valiant. None of them really work that well if the car is cornering hard, need an accumulator. Might as well plumb one in now before the car is finished since otherwise you'll be doing it later when it is more work. There just isn't enough room between the headers and the K frame to build an oil pan that works.
pull.jpg
 
black954 said:
I wanted to give an update on my front end. This is what I ended up using thanks to a lot of great suggestions from this thread.
First off, I removed the K-member and rewelded all the original welds, then added 4130 sheet metal reinforcements to the idler arm bracket and steering box mounts. Then I bent up my own J-bars tied into the shock towers. I plated the firewall and top of the frame rails with more 4130. The J-bars and short down bars ended up being 4130 1.625”x.095” and the shock tower stubs are 4130 2.0”x.120”. This made the entire front of the incredibly rigid. I then assembled the front with the following components: Doctor Diff spindles, lower ball joints, and Viper 13” brake kit. Then from BAC is the Borgeson quick ratio power steering box, with BACs column adapter. Firm Feel 1.12” race torsion bars with their poly grease boots. Then I used QA1 strut rods, LCA’s, and TB adjusters. I went with the SPC adjustable UCA’s and finally the Hotchkis Fox non-adjustable 1.5 aluminum body shocks. I ordered the 73 and up Hellwig 1.25” sway bar, but I found out the hard way that it won’t work on my 69’ K-member. So i’ll send it back and order the correct sway bar.
As of now, here’s where the car is at. I think it sits a bit low so I’ll raise it up a bit once the engine and complete front end is back on. I can’t thank 72bluNblu for his recommendations on the wheel size and offset. I don’t think the front wheels could have fit any more perfect with all the non-stock components. Once the 2 piece Baer rotors show up, ill see the exact clearance between the calipers and wheel spokes. Right now with 3 washers as spacers, there’s less than 1/8” clearance.
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Looks like you're serious. I see that you went with my Viper kit up front. You should be happy with those brakes. Are you getting the Baer two piece rotors to go with the Viper calipers? Which brakes are you going with out back?
The '69 K frame might not have been the best way to go due to the anti-sway bar design. Hard to say, there are pluses and minuses either way. I prefer the '73 and up K frame since it has a better anti-sway bar design but some people don't like the spool mounts. On Tim's Valiant we tried early and later K frames and then eventually fabricated a circle track style anti-sway bar with spline drive on each end. Once you start pushing the car hard the production designs just have too many compromises to work well.
 
AndyF said:
We used pans from everyone on Tim's Valiant. None of them really work that well if the car is cornering hard, need an accumulator. Might as well plumb one in now before the car is finished since otherwise you'll be doing it later when it is more work. There just isn't enough room between the headers and the K frame to build an oil pan that works.
View attachment 1715566020
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Would you say the Milodon pan was the best?

I thought there were multiple issues with the Charlie’s pan?

I know of a Moroso custom pan put on the Hothckis Challenger that became a dust collector very quickly. A real mess.
 
autoxcuda said:
Would you say the Milodon pan was the best?

I thought there were multiple issues with the Charlie’s pan?

I know of a Moroso custom pan put on the Hothckis Challenger that became a dust collector very quickly. A real mess.
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If I remember correctly, we were not able to run the Milodon pan. It didn't fit in the car. We had one of the first Milodon road race pans and we were told it would fit the late model K frame but it didn't. We didn't want to pull things apart to modify the K so we went with plan B. I think the Charlies pan had some issues but so did the Kevko pan and the Milodon didn't fit. This was 10 years ago so my memory is a little blurry but I do recall a constant battle with the oil pans. If I was going to work on a car like this again I'd start by carving a bunch of space into the K frame and then work from there.
 
72bluNblu said:
I have the Milodon pan on my Duster with a ‘74 spool mount K frame. I notched a the lower corner drivers side engine mount to clear the corner of the pan. It was down low on the mount, not really a structural issue. Fit fine everywhere else.

I have pictures in my build thread here
My "new" '74 Duster- or why I need a project like a hole in the head
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We could have made the Milodon pan fit with the spool mount K frame by installing the engine from below. But there was no way to drop the engine in from above with that oil pan. Or we could've dropped the K frame off the car, install the engine from above and then install the K frame. The pan fit the K frame once everything was in place, but there wasn't any room to tilt the engine in and out.
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AndyF said:
We used pans from everyone on Tim's Valiant. None of them really work that well if the car is cornering hard, need an accumulator. Might as well plumb one in now before the car is finished since otherwise you'll be doing it later when it is more work. There just isn't enough room between the headers and the K frame to build an oil pan that works.
View attachment 1715566020
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So I was able to set my engine in the car and it’s CLOSE. Even with the 3/4” I trimmed off the K-member I’m going to have to trim a little more.

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