Change in plans. Another new build begins
- Thread starter pittsburghracer
- Start date
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Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
whatever it was when line bored or honed and same lube
I hone my own stuff with a brush hone and bought it all used so I don’t know if it was lined bored years ago or not. Just a simple 9 second bracket engine.
Duane
Well-Known Member
Yes I was just thinking about the
Required torque for studs for
Maximum clamp.
Required torque for studs for
Maximum clamp.
I hate to say this but some of you guys try to over think engine building. Don’t make it harder than it is. I had an engineer tell me I was wrong for telling a guy on Moparts in search of water pump bolts to just figure out the lengths needed and go to tractor Supply or Ace Hardware and get grade 8 bolts.
360duster
Well-Known Member
haha, no way these will be correct. Just not factory engineered ;-)
Will follow your build!
Michael
Will follow your build!
Michael
Well his point being factory bolts may have been grade 5 and at the given factory torque he wasn’t getting the proper stretch to hold the water pump on. Give me a break.
Duane
Well-Known Member
Sorry my comments were a carry over from another thread.
It was pointed out to me that a 1/2 inch stud calls for significantly more torque than a bolt of same. I was just curious what others do. As I said before
I am following your build to learn. A member had a head gasket failure and he was asking for potential causes and bolt torque came up. Was not criticizing you if I came across that way.
I didn't read that head gasket post but that's a pretty easy subject. I did learn a little trick years ago. When a head bolt or stud nut is torqued pressure is applied directly under the hardened washer. If you CAREFULLY before final clean-up of the heads flip it over and either by hand or a champering tool put a 1/8 champher under EACH head bolt hole. Doing this spreads the pressure more evenly across the head surface while torquing a head down. If you look carefully at a head that came off a build you will see a raised area around the bolt holes preventing proper compression of the head gasket. This prevents that from happening. I learned this from a NASCAR guy.
Duane
Well-Known Member
What style of head gasket are you planning to use and with what comp ratio.
Your tip about the chamfer is an excellent tip,thanks for that.
Duane
Well-Known Member
I have always used that gasket without issue.
Any particular reason you don't use an Mls?
I finally after all these years have tried Cometics. I have them on my 422 in my black Duster and I put a set on my 572 because of my planned nitrous use. Heck we used the cheapie Felpro gasket that comes in the gasket kits for year till we had one issue. I guess some of us oldtimers are a little cement headed at times and if something works why try something else. I’m even this way at restaurants if I find something I like I’m having it. Lol
Duane
Well-Known Member
I agree with everything you said.
At the end of the day, if the motors runs and does so reliably, then it's a successful build imho
I have heard some horror stories about cosmetics as well though, that's why I asked.
Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
stud nut end has fine threads- do not compare with coarse thread bolts going into cast iron
you do NOT want grade 8 for a water pump they do not stretch enough when theaded into cast iron at cast iron torque limits
therefore they can loose clamp if gasket compresses
you do not want to overtighten -overtorque these bolts - or valve body bolts or carb bolts etc etc
you do NOT want grade 8 for a water pump they do not stretch enough when theaded into cast iron at cast iron torque limits
therefore they can loose clamp if gasket compresses
you do not want to overtighten -overtorque these bolts - or valve body bolts or carb bolts etc etc
Ohhhh Ok. Why don't you start your own post and explain the do's and dont's of metals and their applications. I am so sick and tired of hearing "by the rules CRAP" form guys (usually engineers) that can't tie their own shoes. I threw out my copy of "Must follow the rules" 44 years ago when I built my first engine and after working 33 years as a Millwright in a steel mill. If I had to use every proper bolt, made of exactly the proper metal, torqued to exactly the proper torque, I would have quit racing a proper long tome ago. When to start your own post I'll be sure to drop in to ask a few questions. Yaaaaa right.
Duane
Well-Known Member
And how much load is there on a waterpump that you think he needs
to be told this.
Did you see his post about chamfering under the head bolts.
I already apologized for bringing this issue into his build thread and you guys jump in with two more. Let's discuss some real tips from a guy with lots of experience building 9 second motors not the 35ft pounds on the water pump bolts.
My apologies again John.
None needed buddy. Sometimes we read something quickly or on the run and post without thinking it over. I know I do. I should quit putting some details in my posts because I do think differently on some subjects and it opens up the post to the by the book guys, and 9 times out of 10 it’s something they have read in a book because they don’t actually build there own stuff. I’ve tried to shy away from some posts on head porting because I know for a fact that head won’t flow that number. That’s why I always gave guys before and after numbers from my bench. If a head flows 250 but on your bench it flows 270 it makes the guys who calibrated his bench numbers look low. But it sure helps get the sloppy guy more porting work. Don’t even get me started on dyno numbers. Lol
Duane
Well-Known Member
I am not a pro engine builder, but I have always done my own assemblies. I too do many things by the book because I do not have the knowledge to do it any other way.
I could jump in on your build and say your doing this wrong or that wrong.
But your motors run and run well indeed.
What I want to see is how "you " do it so that I might learn a different way. Such as your chamfer under the bolt hole tip.
Exactly what I want to get out of this.
Ironically my current motor will have a front and mid engine plate. I have no experience with this. Due to installation in the car issues and potential stripped aluminum threads in the timing cover, I decided that studs were required for the timing cover and motor plate. Is there a concern here or am I over thinking again lol.
No books for that kind of thing.
Just looking at the recommended
Bolt torque from Chrysler engineers, the head and main cap bolts are the same size and have 10lb difference in recommended torque, so I get what you mean entirely about books and over thinking things.
famous bob
mopar misfit
I`m getting a kick out of all this. I built a basket case w/ no baskets, I MEASURED EVERYTHING FOR DEPTH, AND BOUGHT GRADE 8 BOLTS FOR EVERYTHING , WATER PUMP INCLUDED ! ------
-disregard caps, I`ve finally figured out that MY pc jumps around so much ,it deletes and adds things by it self-----------LOL
Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
ok back to reality
are these bolts in shear or tension or both
If you used grade 8's wher a grade 5 was specked and used the factory torque you would not hurt anything, but you would not have as much clamp
lucky tolerance are large
on the motor mount torque is not as important as locknut or locktight
are these bolts in shear or tension or both
If you used grade 8's wher a grade 5 was specked and used the factory torque you would not hurt anything, but you would not have as much clamp
lucky tolerance are large
on the motor mount torque is not as important as locknut or locktight
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