Chrysler 360 w/ W2 Econo Heads, Headers, 30.over

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wwwfora said:
I have a Holley 4150 HP 750 CFM, four barrel gas guzzling banger. What do FABO ppl think about this carb for this engine. I'm just cruising, don't care about torque or high end or any of that performance driving...hate to spill my ice-cream on the way home on Sunday. Any suggestions? What are you all running on your 360 power plant?

Thanks FABO! :rolleyes:
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I'm running a Quickfuel 850 on my 360 but my car is street/strip..those w-2's and that holley carb and made for racing not street or mileage..
 
If you want to know what your rear end gearing is,,,,it's a 1/2 hour job with nothing more needed than 2 jack stands and a chalk ( a pint of pilsner is optional) 1) Put your rear end up on the jack stands till the tires clear (don't forget to chock the front) 2) Put your tranny in neutral. 3) Chalk your driveshaft at 6 O'Clock (easier to read) 4) Chalk your tires (12 O'Clock usually works best) 5) Rotate your back tires slowly only one turn counting how many rotations your driveshaft rotates. This will give you a pretty accurate rear end gear...Here are some numbers to help ( keep in mind these are rough numbers 'cause Mopars never stop on a dime !!! 3 1/4 = 3.23 ....3 1/2 = 3.55 ... 3 3/4 = 3.73 .... not quite 4 = 3.90 4 and a bit = 4.10 or 4.11 .... you get the picture????? easy as pilsner oh I mean pie!!!! Hope this helps the others help you....I'm not a carb guy....but I will say the my Edelbrock 600 SP works great on my 76 Valiant (HANG 10) 318 with 340 heads Hooker long tubes edelbrock 484 lift cam ..18 mpg on highway and 13 city with a less the 10 second 1/8 mile!!!!! Hope this helps
 
i have an hp holley on mine too and i bought the quick fuel meetering blocks and it made a huge diffrence in how the car runs really really crisp and i think they look bad *** too the only thing is they are a little thicker than the factory holley blocks so i had to make a fuel line to fit but that is really no big deal heres the pic of it before i put it on my car

downsized_0718091559[1].jpg
 
1qwikScamp said:
i have an hp holley on mine too and i bought the quick fuel meetering blocks and it made a huge diffrence in how the car runs really really crisp and i think they look bad *** too the only thing is they are a little thicker than the factory holley blocks so i had to make a fuel line to fit but that is really no big deal heres the pic of it before i put it on my car
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Which ones did you buy?

All I see is the red ones. Standard or adjustable? I wouldn't mind trying those on mine.
 
WOW! Lot's of options here thanks everybody!

GTXperience: My concern was that I think I can get a smoother ride around town, then the 4150
750 cfm Holley that I'm running now. I guess my real question is what is everybody else running?
And I know mullinax95 love's his (I'm guessing it's smooth throughout the whole range of gears)
So either, my Holley really is great and needs some adjustments from a pro or I need to get
as LXguy put it a 770 street avenger. What I'm really trying to say is what is the best carb
for the mileage and cruising ratio in you alls opinion? Like LXguy said, ttinkering may not help.
And Yes, I have no choke.

Mullinax95: Can you explain the love for your Holley 4150? I'm being serious here. Efi sounds really cool. I'll
probably wait to see a car with it before attempting the conversion. The motor part is not going to happen, because
this is a new engine built by a reputable shop and I'm keepin her.

Stroked340: Thanks for the opinion, but I think I'm getting away from the street strip idea, although I think I'm
in way over my head already with the setup as it is.

Rockin Ronnie: Thanks for the gear ratio tip, I've heard of that before and thanks for the long explanation...I need that.
Also, I'll do some lookin into the Edelbrock 600 SP!

1qwikScamp: That's exactly what I wanted to hear (CRISP) because my car starting out is anything but. What exact model
number metering block did you buy? I think I'll go with blue anodized :) Also, I totally agree with having to extend
the fuel lines, I envisioned that already. I really think this is my best approach before I get drastic! Thanks.

Mullinax95: What do you mean standard or adjustable? I saw these on Muscle Car TV and they looked adjustable, but didn't say which model it was.

And let me add one more thing: Isn't the idea of the carb suppose to match the air fuel ratio? I've seen these guys on Dyno's maxing out and tuning the carb, so is everybody here going off luck, experience, or real pen and paper facts? I suppose most of these carbs are adjustable enough to handle different setups. How would I know to decide between a 570,670,770 and so on, with my type of driving application in mind. Thanks! I know long post...sorry.
 
What you are asking is how to run a race engine on the street. Your present combo is on the edge of true streetablity. Big cams and large port heads don't add up to crisp throttle response at low rpm, BUT I will try to give you a band-aid approach to get you close to what you want.

1. Swap the cam out to a XR268R. You will be able to use the same solid roller lifters, valve springs, etc. and with a roller, you don't have to worry about special oil additives and cam break in.

2. Swap out the intake manifold to a dual plane from Indy or MP. IIRC, they both offer a dual plane for W-2 heads. You didn't mention what you had, but I'm guessing it's a big single plane.

3. Go with the street avenger as mentioned. No double pumper will ever give the mileage of a vacuum secondary carb without some very intense tuning. The Avenger will need to be tuned too, but the results you want will be easier to achieve with this carb.

4. Careful advance curve tuning will help the bottom end/off-idle performance too.

Hopefully, there is someone in you area who can help you with the carb/curve tuning if you don't feel capable yourself. I love this kind of work but I'm way too far away for you. I really think that the above changes will be the only way to get the performance characteristics that you are trying to achieve.

Good luck and have fun!
 
You don't need a street avenger, that is last carb I would put on any motor with some real cam in it, been there done that w/770 on a 440 10.1 284* .538 lift
3200 converter/4.30 gear.
Thing had a lean idle circuit, kinda like a 600 vac sec.
I would set the blades right to the slot and it would idle for s***, needed drilling of the butterflys.
Instead I had it returned for an 830 chokless, WAY BETTER CARB!

Avengers are for stock to 'mild' engines with milage in mind hence the leaness out of the box.....
 
If you had any idea what I dumped into this engine you would know I'm not spending more on it, or tweaking it right now. My hope is to just tune the carb or replace it. I notice the Street Avenger comes with Metering blocks where the the HP 4150 does not, this should help me tune it. Not to mention all the other pieces that you mentioned. And thank you for the input about the curve tuning. All the other things you mention are too advanced for me and I haven't met anybody in the East Bay (near SF) yet to hang out with and talk cars and tool around. So, far I think I'm going to look into the Steet Avenger and see how she drives. The HP 4150 is so High with the Vacumn adapter plate I can't use my original 340 air cleaner :( and had to use the Edelbrock Pro Flo instead...maybe with the Street Avenger I can use it again! Thanks all.
 
Both a dbl pump and street avenger both have acc pumps and are both controlled by your foot, so....
A smaller carb in general is what you may need in this department, it will speed up the air/mix and give you a more crisper/torquier low speed driving experience.
 
Crazyguy, that's a good point, and I'll take it into consideration. I'm confused, so the Avenger is what I need or what I don't need? I guess I should go back to putting metering blocks in my HP 4150 and see how she goes?
 
wwwfora said:
If you had any idea what I dumped into this engine you would know I'm not spending more on it, or tweaking it right now. My hope is to just tune the carb or replace it. I notice the Street Avenger comes with Metering blocks where the the HP 4150 does not, this should help me tune it. Not to mention all the other pieces that you mentioned. And thank you for the input about the curve tuning. All the other things you mention are too advanced for me and I haven't met anybody in the East Bay (near SF) yet to hang out with and talk cars and tool around. So, far I think I'm going to look into the Steet Avenger and see how she drives. The HP 4150 is so High with the Vacumn adapter plate I can't use my original 340 air cleaner :( and had to use the Edelbrock Pro Flo instead...maybe with the Street Avenger I can use it again! Thanks all.
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1st of all 4150's have meter blocks.

2nd if you have a spacer under the carb, it could be contributing to your lower speed issue.fyi

3rd with w2 heads, roller and a 750carb, why would you wanna run that funnel of an air cleaner?
 
wwwfora said:
Mullinax95: Can you explain the love for your Holley 4150? I'm being serious here. Efi sounds really cool. I'll
probably wait to see a car with it before attempting the conversion. The motor part is not going to happen, because
this is a new engine built by a reputable shop and I'm keepin her.



Mullinax95: What do you mean standard or adjustable? I saw these on Muscle Car TV and they looked adjustable, but didn't say which model it was.
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I have tried different carbs over the years. Different Holleys and Edelbrocks. My car is a 4-speed, with a healthy running 360 so I went with the manual secondary 750 HP instead of vacuum. It just runs better than any carb I have ever had really is all it boils down too. It is recommended to run manual secondaries with manual trans and vacuum with automatics.

On the Quick fuel website it shows adjustable or standard fuel blocks so I was just wondering.

Shoot!.... I'd keep the motor and screw the poor MPG! When I jumped into this hobby with both feet I new that MPG wasn't going to be the most appealing thing in the world. I know it can be done and have power also but not that cheaply... so screw it... If want to play I'm going to have to pay! LOL
 
wwwfora said:
Crazyguy, that's a good point, and I'll take it into consideration. I'm confused, so the Avenger is what I need or what I don't need? I guess I should go back to putting metering blocks in my HP 4150 and see how she goes?
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If you mean adjustable meter block, you better have someone tune it at a shop that knows what they are doing.

you have a 750 and have issues with lower speed drivability yet you consider a bigger carb that comes calibrated leaner than heck?

The cam is your main problem, just so you know, the carb change will bandaid the lower speed issue, which is alright to do to until it costs as much as a cam swap.
Increasing the initial as much as it can handle while maintaining the same total would be of great benefit to you as well in the low speed and milage zone.

My only advice, go 650-700cfm or change the cam cause your combo is not for milage, it's for going fast and writing blank checks to your gas tank.jmo
 
mullinax95 said:
I have tried different carbs over the years. Different Holleys and Edelbrocks. My car is a 4-speed, with a healthy running 360 so I went with the manual secondary 750 HP instead of vacuum. It just runs better than any carb I have ever had really is all it boils down too. It is recommended to run manual secondaries with manual trans and vacuum with automatics.

On the Quick fuel website it shows adjustable or standard fuel blocks so I was just wondering.

Shoot!.... I'd keep the motor and screw the poor MPG! When I jumped into this hobby with both feet I new that MPG wasn't going to be the most appealing thing in the world. I know it can be done and have power also but not that cheaply... so screw it... If want to play I'm going to have to pay! LOL
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You know whats cool mullinax? is our mopars 'built' still get better milage than any short rod crooked port havin pos chevy.:cheers:
 
Crazyguy: Your right I did notice the metering blocks on my HP 4150, not sure what I saw on TV, why offer metering
blocks if they already have them? Maybe some models don't. They said something about not having to take off
the bowl to adjust the jet, and with the metering block it was on the outside...totally lost now. And the spacer
needs to be there for vacumn, where does the vacumn normally go on a HP 4150? That funnel of an aircleaner looks cool,
then again performance wise I guess I'm going to sell it if anybody is inerested, it's in excellent condition, and I'll
keep my Pro-Flo. Why did Scamp add metering blocks if the HP 4150 already comes with them?

Mullinax95: True I don't have manual secondary's this could help, and true I don't really care about MPG at all. I would
just like to have smooth idle through lower RPM if possible by adjusting the carb. That's really all I want.

I'm going to have to research the secondary option, right now the top of my carb looks like the picture qwikscamp submitted,
and also look into metering blocks since I'm totally confused about them and why they're offered.
 
There are adjust-a-jet meter blocks that let you 'jet tune' without removing the meter blocks, thats the diff with those.

Scamp probably bought the adjustable meter blocks that have removable restrictors and such which allows a finer tuning for a given app, but you need to know what you are doing.

The best thing you can do to start is by buying a holley tuning book and find out how a carburetor works, what does what when changed etc.

Hey I'm good with adj meter blocks, as long as you know how to tune otherwise you're just buying more stuff.

Most after market blocks are set more aggressively for performance/racing.

Before you do anything I would do as I mentioned before and experiment with the timing curve= highest initial possible with it all in around 2200rpm .....then tailor your carb.jmo
 
I'm not saying you can't fix your problem with adj meter blocks, I'm saying just cause you own a scalpel doesn't mean you're ready to do brain surgery.

I know carbs better than you, no offence intended, and even I put this stuff at the bottom of the list because it's so time consuming and takes knowledge/experience to know what you are feeling while driving/testing/reading plugs etc....

But hey... you could be a fast learner, a phenom if you will, of carb tuning.
 
Thanks crazy guy, I realize my ignorance here is getting old for everybody and I'm going to take this information and start researching and hopefully get some help tuning things. A Phenom of carb tuning....I'm no idiot...look out...I'm going to fix this issue :)

W2360Duster, check out this thread, been there done that, checked casting numbers, compared, asked questions...yada yada. Yes, I had the engine rebuild and watched the process along the way.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=64637
 
wwwfora said:
Mullinax95: True I don't have manual secondary's this could help, and true I don't really care about MPG at all. I would
just like to have smooth idle through lower RPM if possible by adjusting the carb. That's really all I want.

I'm going to have to research the secondary option, right now the top of my carb looks like the picture qwikscamp submitted,
and also look into metering blocks since I'm totally confused about them and why they're offered.
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"Smooth idle through lower RPM" if it is what I think you are talking about it is the cam doing that. It's not a miss or bog is it? The motor runs fine except that one little area right?
 
Mullinax95, yes that is correct. You know this is my first Mopar and I'm starting to realize from the way you guys talk from experience, that this is the way the car runs because of it's setup. It runs strong and smooth in every respect, except for low RPM, but taking it out the other day I realize it's not that big of an issue. And besides I think the only way to (maybe) fix this issue is to do what Crazyguy said "
Before you do anything I would do as I mentioned before and experiment with the timing curve= highest initial possible with it all in around 2200rpm .....then tailor your carb.jmo" This is to technical for me at the moment and like I said I don't have friends to oversee my work. This car idles great and runs without missing a beat. I have my cam sheet, but don't know what number is most important. My lobe separation is 110.0, besides that it's all about valve lift, lobe lift, valve timing and intake and exhaust specs.
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
You don't need a street avenger, that is last carb I would put on any motor with some real cam in it, been there done that w/770 on a 440 10.1 284* .538 lift
3200 converter/4.30 gear.

That's why I suggested it with the cam change. My suggestion wasn't to be taken piece by piece but as a package. The Avenger also has all the vacuum fittings he might ever need.

Thing had a lean idle circuit, kinda like a 600 vac sec.
I would set the blades right to the slot and it would idle for s***, needed drilling of the butterflys.
Instead I had it returned for an 830 chokless, WAY BETTER CARB!

The blades should be set with a "square" amount of transfer slot showing under the blades. In other words the height of the transfer slot showing under the blades should equal the milled width. This may well have been your problem. The newer Holley's have been known to have some milling/casting garbage floating around in them too. As with any part, it should be disassembled when recieved and gone thorough. You wouldn't believe the manufacturing crap I found in some of the most high-end parts.

Avengers are for stock to 'mild' engines with milage in mind hence the leaness out of the box.....
Click to expand...

Well, it's the annular boosters that help the mileage out and help out idle/main transition. This is just what is needed when vacuum is low with a big cam. The jetting is 72/75 on the 770 model and 78/82 with a 4.5 PV and .040 squirter on the 870 model which is what you should have chose for your 440 anyway. Neither of those carbs would I call "Lean". Drilling holes shouldn't have been necessary either as the secondaries can be adjusted to add additional air as needed. Regardless, big cams are better off with a 4150 style dbl pumper, no doubt.

Wwwfora,

The Percy's "adjust-a-jet" metering blocks are handy, but not really worth it IMO. The Quick Fuel metering blocks are awesome, but are not for a begginer to play with and will not solve you problem. As I said before, the cam and ports are too big for your application. No amount of carb tuning is going to give you crisp off-idle performance with that cam, period. This is a very common problem and I see it lot with people saying "I want a 450hp 318 that gets 20 mpg and I need to drive it 20 miles to work every day." Well, without forced induction or nitrous, it's not going to happen. Then I get called a 318 hater, lol! :-D

Every build with a use in mind should be built from the ground up. The band-aid approach never works well. Since you do not want to do anything I suggested, all I can say is add a higher stall TC so the engine can rev into it's usable range and kiss whatever mileage you are getting goodbye.
 
ramcharger, it's a 4psd.

You can only open the secondary blades so much for there idle circuit isn't adjustable, not adjustable 4 corner, so once you get the sec blades beyond a certain point.....

Maybe there was junk in it, but I haven't had to pull a new carb apart brfore running it since my buddy pos demon.

No matter, an 830 chokeless annular took it's place and idled great out of the box.


ramcharger I pulled the 750 dbl pumper off of my 340 and tossed on to the 440 and it idled perfect and only lost a hair of top end over the 830cfm, in other words ran great, so what was the difference you think?
 
318 hater, that's too ironic. I appreciate your input, and completely understand your mentioning of swapping out parts, or at the easiest at least the cam. When I had this engine built I asked him to specifically call me about the cam so we could decide, but he built it anyway without asking me....I know a little odd. Guess he figured I didn't know my lobes from my *** and just built it. Also, could have been something to do with the lift for the Econo Heads and they way they function. Higher Stall TC is where I'm going next. I figure one day I'll meet a wrench who won't mind helping me with my car...But, really, I love the lopey idle, and the strong vacumn this cam creates, the car sounds great, so ahhhh FU$% it right!? :)
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME!!!
 
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