Clutch Adjustment?

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68383GTS

68383GTS

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OK heres what I got 68 Dart 383,4 speed,new flywheel,new Hayes clutch, used Lakewood belhousing,and I converted it over to hydralic.
My problem motor is pretty fresh I got around 400 miles on it.Have been driving it easy no problems with the clutch.Today I got on it a bit from first to second.Shifted at 4000 and tranny made I guess a pop sound and is slipping.So I guess the clutch needs adjusted.
My question what is the best way to adjust it? With the Lakewood bellhousing you can't see nothing,no inspection cover at the bottom.So I just kind of guessed at it last time.
My second question is how good do Hayes clutches hold up.Once the engine is broke in I will be shifting it at 6500-6800 Rpm.
Thanks,Jim
 
The pop does not sound good. If not a diaphram style, and is the 3 arm style, the TO bearing may have jammed into the arms, and hanging up? Maybe too much travel in hyd. system. 1/2" should be enough to disengauge clutch. good luck. ps a centrifugal roller may have popped out also.
 
When you shift into gear it makes a growl sound I guess you would call it not real loud.It will move but slips.I will try the 1/2 of travel and see what happens. Jim
 
I never have liked this Hyd. Clutch set up I bought.So after I take the free play out of the clutch fork there should about 1/2 of clutch fork travel right?
Jim
 
You can baby it and it will growl or wine alittle but it will move.Very low rpm's it will move.Rev it up and it doesn't seem like it wants to move.Not sure if its the clutch adjustment or somthing else.Any ideas?I guess I may have to pull it.
It was alright for the first 400 miles.I have had it at 4K-5K RPM at a roll.But when I left in first and shifted into second at 4000 RPM that is when I started have problems.
Any ideas Guys this is my second 4 speed car so I am still learning...
Thanks,Jim
 
3 finger pressure plate? This is why I will not run one again. The levers pivot on a pin. The pin can snap. My guess is your pressure plate is toast.
 
1/2" travel @ TO bearing on PP arms, will probably not equal 1/2" travel @ pushrod center point. With the noises you described, I believe your hyd. setup may have moved the TO bearing to far into the arms. You may have a wrong style TO bearing, or its just that your hyd. system has too much travel, thus moveing through the arms, then hanging up on the way out. very little movement on arms in the oposite direction can dislodge a centrifugal roller out of its place, leaving it free to fly around and lodge in your PP not letting it function properly. pop,growl,slip,chew. another member here had same issue, I offered same advise and after many other suggestions, he finally pulled tranny and guess what, just as I described. His difference was he probably hung the clutch during installation. I dont know how, but your gonna have to find a way to determine the travel of your setup. And adjust out of the pushrod or cyln. position. Factory bellhousings let you see, Enough room for a inspection mirror and small flashlight? Let us know the outcome. good luck:clock:
 
Yes I hate I can not see anything.I know I had alot of travel at the shift fork a few inches if I remeber right.Well I guess I am going to have to pull the trans.if so maybe I can cut out the bottom of the bellhousing so I can see.
Jim
 
If you don`t race and have to pass tech. But forget any warrenty, and it`s hard to tell what it would do to the integredy. but if you insist, I would just drill a hole 2'' or just enough to see to guess the 1/2'' or so travel needed to disengauge clutch. You could mock up the fork on a piece of wood and determine throws, out on the bench.
 
I will pull the tranny Sunday and then I will let you guys know whats up.I am sure I will need more advise.
Thanks,Jim
 
I pulled the tranny and clutch and don't see anything wrong.Its a Hayes 3 finger type.Any ideas?
Jim
 
Do all arms set evenly? My style is the borg-beck, which uses rollers to pivot on. Does yours? if not, I`m not familar with hayes design. When you pulled tranny, did it act like it was hanging up a little, as in, TO bearing stuck inbetween arms? Do you incorperate a fork return spring/ might help. sorry if none of this helps. but something was definetly wrong, with it slipping and growling. No marks or nothing eh?
 
All arms are set evenly and have no funny marks or wear on them.The arms pivot on a roller or a pins.The throwout bearing does have a light mark on the front of it,all the way around.The mark is a scuff and you can't catch your finger nail on it.I used a fork return spring.
I noticed when I picked the pressure plate to look at it something rattled abit.On the pressure plate there are 3 groups of springs.4 in each group.In each group of springs there are 2 springs that have a roller,bushing,or some kind of spacer between the springs.So there are 3 of these one for each group of springs.Well one of these roller,bushings,or some kind of spacer is moving around abit.The other two are not.
Did I loose you yet? LOL I need to find a picture of a pressure plate all broken down to see what this part is and what it does?
Jim
 
I looked at the pressure plate again.I guess all 3 of the rollers or bushings between the springs do move my mistake.
Jim
 
I believe you found the source of irritation. Something broke or slipped out of place. Study the good ones and try to determine whats missing on the loose one. You may have a bear of a time retrieving the piece/s. I lucked out with a long hardend wire with hook, some machinest speciality tool,returned to its position and returned for exchange/another luck out. Either too much throw, or if your a clutch sidestepper @ high rpm, your hayes could`nt hack it. Maybe somebody can recommend a good system that will take this fun abuse. Maybe a high$$$ dual friction. My $hits been holding good for years, with the exception of 3 120* hot spots on flywheel, gifting me the friggin judders, but I will feather it until the cows come home8) Then I will upgrade. Thank goodness I did`nt convince you to pull tranny for nothing. good luck keep us posted of progress
 
I,ve been following,Hows the pilot bearing?If you do end up getting a new clutch,I recommend centerforce.Yes they,re expensive,but for a reason.You already have the s.shield,with the centerforce clutch you,d install and not have to worry for awhile,plus it,s easy on left leg!
 
Jim pres.P dont rattle, you have a loose/or broke piece trapped in there somewhere. P.P still under warrenty? A small flashlight and a keen eye you should see it somewhere. If you reassemble, it will likely reoccur, unless your T.O. bearing traveled too far and caused this to happen. = 2 problems. pilot is noteworthy too. Also inspect your TO retainer, these are prone to crack near the flange and will reek havock on alignment. Also it might pay to check houseing bore runout.
 
I can see the 3 pieces that are moving abit.I am not sure what they are looks like some kind of roller or bushing.
There are 3 nuts that hold the pressure plate together.If I take the nuts off will the pressure plate pop apart? And if so how easy would it go back together.Sounds like I need to sell something and maybe just by a Centerforce.
Jim
 
Hayes clutches have been the best I have ever used. I have a Hayes 11" Borg & Beck outfit in my 4-speed Pro Street Demon. I also have a 4-speed 340 '72 Demon. In that car, I had unwittingly installed a pressure plate that had "roller assist". Those damned things may be good in some truck but they have no place whatever in anything you want to power shift. Every time I would wind it up to 7,000, the clutch pedal felt like it was hitting a wall! The centrifugal rollers fly out and wedge between the pressure plate cover and the plate itself and will not release! It's hell on your engine when you are power shifting at 7,000 and it doesn't make it to the next gear!
moparhead sounds like a really savvy 4-speed guy, covering all bases. I've seen the front bearing retainers that the TO rides on broken off causing the growling and release problems. I'm glad that didn't happen to you. By all means, pull the side cover off your 4-speed and see that the shift forks are not bent. This happens and usually they break off. It can cause poor engagement or no engagement if they are bent and will cause noise. If your 4-speed is OK, I would replace the pressure plate making sure it is non-roller. In a Borg&Beck style 3-finger pressure plate, the fingers are attached to what is called an "eye bolt". I had one of these pop in my Hemi Roadrunner. These eyebolts carry all the spring pressure load. If one breaks, the clutch will not release. The offending part can be readily seen because the finger will be loose and the height out of wack with the other 2-fingers. Check the center hub of your clutch disc as well for loose springs or damage to the marcel washer. You can set the release travel by having someone push in the clutch while you check with a .060 feeler gauge between the clutch disc and the flywheel. Of course with the Lakewood can, you have no access hole. I made a very neat cut-out in the bottom of mine so I could do this. I have never had a diaphram pressure plate that was worth a hoot. But then again, I'm old school and maybe a little set in my ways. I'm sure someone makes a good one nowadays! Good luck.
Pat
 
Pfogel I think you hit the nail on the head.I am thinking I do have roller assist pressure plate.There are three rollers between the pressure plate and cover.They are loose and I was thinking maybe they are getting wedged in between the plate and cover.Like Moparhead said nothing should be moving around in the pressure plate.I wonder if I take the pressure plate apart if I just can remove the rollers and still use the pressure plate.I still have the Hays paperwork I will have to look for a part number.
Thanks,Jim
 
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