Coil Over vs Torsion Bar

[HemiDenny]

I personally really enjoy seeing all the different types of builds and different suspension set ups.....and am happy we are not the cookie-cutters crowd.

Although HDK has turned into a nice little business....I do it because I love it. I love BS ing with all the different builders and their ideas to make their ride different.
If I was in my 20s....I would attack it very differently (with employees and national advertising)....but as I learned in my days as a large motorcycle dealer in the 80s....being big has a way of taking the personal touch AND the fun out of it.

After all....I do not care whose front you have, just have a cool Mopar. All one has to do is visit the HDK sponsored tent at the Nats....cool Mopars and lots of ball bustin' fun!

 

[abodyjoe]

being big has a way of taking the personal touch AND the fun out of it

That’s whats so nice about you, rms and gerst. All small businesses that actually talk to the customers. Hell until recently if you called RMS either bill or his mother answered the phone. Now it’s him or his wife as his mother has cut her hours back some.

 

[famous bob]

That’s whats so nice about you, rms and gerst. All small businesses that actually talk to the customers. Hell until recently if you called RMS either bill or his mother answered the phone. Now it’s him or his wife as his mother has cut her hours back some.

I`ve called mag. force a few times, and haven`t had any problem with them> Not bragging on them, just stating a fact ---------

 

[Super-Cuda]

I guess your unaware that multiple manufacturers have built, and continue to build models with torsion bars, and rack and pinion steering?

Yes, I am aware that there are still applications that use torsion bars but I wasn't specific enough and should have stated applications for high performance vehicles. If the Big three use torsion bars in a high performance model, I was unaware of it.

 

[Mattax]

So, after reading the many insightful replies, I gather it's not really a better or worse situation as much as it comes down to driving style and intended use.
Or fitment issues!

Jeff

Yes. I'd say the pros and cons come down to intended use, packaging/fittment and production/development costs.
On the first, the advantage of longitudinal torsion bars is spring rate equals wheel rate. Whereas with a coil spring, because its mounted inboard, a higher spring rate must be used to get the same wheel rate. Generally speaking, a softer springing is matched with a less damping which can help suspension follow rougher surfaces.

 

[Super-Cuda]

Every time I see a picture of a coilover equipped mopar, the outside tire is in pos camber.
There are characteristics of suspension that make one system better than the other. I would venture to guess the t bar setup has a better camber curve and lower center of gravity. Chassis stiffness has all to do with feel. Adding reinforcements and extra spot welds make a huge difference. The steering box flex analogy is hilarious. When underway the flex is insignificant.

View attachment 1715240424

I don't think its hilarious at all, extremely unsafe perhaps and not very confidence inspiring.

Here's a post from one of the members that had the same issue as I did.


Jan 30, 2016 #15

72bluNbluFABO Gold MemberFABO Gold Member

NorCal
Local Time:
9:28 AM
The steering box mount on the '74 Dart V8 K frame I swapped into my Duster (after fully seam welding and reinforcing it) was severely cracked. The welds along the K frame at the base of the mount had cracked completely, and when you turned the wheel the steering box would move back and forth too by a good 1/2" or so, closing and opening the cracked welds. There was so much flex that the mounting plate itself had cracked in the middle.

Crack at the steering box/engine mount weld

 

[jos51700]

For me, I'll do anything to lose weight in my car, except lose weight myself.

What weight I gotta have, I want it low and the middle. So, torsion bars!

I like the modularity in the coil over stuff, but I guess I just feel like if I have to replace that much of the car, then I got the wrong car. That's just me. Of course, if I could get a vanity plate that says DED STK, I probably would.

Ymmv. Not valid in California.

 

[famous bob]

For me, I'll do anything to lose weight in my car, except lose weight myself.

What weight I gotta have, I want it low and the middle. So, torsion bars!

I like the modularity in the coil over stuff, but I guess I just feel like if I have to replace that much of the car, then I got the wrong car. That's just me. Of course, if I could get a vanity plate that says DED STK, I probably would.
Ymmv. Not valid in California.

After seeing the pics of the M.F. tubular front end failures, I`m thinking of gussets now, to go w/ my other stuff I`ve done. May do it when I get bored later- Had the fish up to about 140, (GUESSING) , had to let off to exit, fastest I`ve had it yet. Handled ok , probly will never hold it till max. speed is reached tho----------remember the old song that said- "telephone poles looked like a picket fence?" LOL

 

[dirty white boy]

Yes, I am aware that there are still applications that use torsion bars but I wasn't specific enough and should have stated applications for high performance vehicles. If the Big three use torsion bars in a high performance model, I was unaware of it.

look up USAC sprint cars! severe power to weight ratio's here! and very much high performance!!

 

[racerhog]

After seeing the pics of the M.F. tubular front end failures, I`m thinking of gussets now, to go w/ my other stuff I`ve done. May do it when I get bored later- Had the fish up to about 140, (GUESSING) , had to let off to exit, fastest I`ve had it yet. Handled ok , probly will never hold it till max. speed is reached tho----------remember the old song that said- "telephone poles looked like a picket fence?" LOL

Crossed my fingers just for luck...lol

 

[HemiDenny]

Crack at the steering box/engine mount weld

View attachment 1715240720[/QUOTE]

you sure that just isn't a poor weld that did not get proper heat penetration?

 

[mopar505]

After seeing the pics of the M.F. tubular front end failures, I`m thinking of gussets now, to go w/ my other stuff I`ve done. May do it when I get bored later- Had the fish up to about 140, (GUESSING) , had to let off to exit, fastest I`ve had it yet. Handled ok , probly will never hold it till max. speed is reached tho----------remember the old song that said- "telephone poles looked like a picket fence?" LOL

this whole M.F. talk has me a bit concerned. i bought the whole front end kit ( 3900.00 ) back in 2013 to bolt into my b-body. still sitting in the orginal box's awaiting progress on the body work. MAN im not feeling good about installing and having to BEEF up something that may have been under engineered and destined to failure.

 

[Super-Cuda]

Hi HemiDenny,

Yes, that's what I initially thought when I read 72bluNblu's post but there's no doubt about cracks appearing when you look at the second pic he posted. I wish I had taken pics when I initially repaired my K-Frame as I had similar failures. Check out the numerous other posts made about this topic.

Jan 30, 2016 #15

In my humble opinion, it was not the engineering of the system that was at fault, it was the shoddy build quality and use of materials that is to blame for the failures. However, I'm sure no one back then expected their efforts to be criticised 50 years later!

 

[Super-Cuda]

this whole M.F. talk has me a bit concerned. i bought the whole front end kit ( 3900.00 ) back in 2013 to bolt into my b-body. still sitting in the orginal box's awaiting progress on the body work. MAN im not feeling good about installing and having to BEEF up something that may have been under engineered and destined to failure.

Hey mopar505,

If I were you, I'd consider myself lucky that you are at least armed with the information provided here. At least now you can research your suspension components further and ensure they are safe to use. All of these manufacturers products look great freshly painted and sitting wrapped in plastic in a box. It is only after they are installed and subjected to the environment you will use them in that you will truly find out how well made they are. Remember, this site represents the largest group of Mopar A-Bodies out there, with many using these systems. You'll find out pretty quick what's good and what's crap on this site and I guarantee you the better manufacturers are watching closely too.

 

[mopar505]

Hey mopar505,

If I were you, I'd consider myself lucky that you are at least armed with the information provided here. At least now you can research your suspension components further and ensure they are safe to use. All of these manufacturers products look great freshly painted and sitting wrapped in plastic in a box. It is only after they are installed and subjected to the environment you will use them in that you will truly find out how well made they are. Remember, this site represents the largest group of Mopar A-Bodies out there, with many using these systems. You'll find out pretty quick what's good and what's crap on this site and I guarantee you the better manufacturers are watching closely too.

i here ya, and thats why its a great thing for sites like this.When you spend the coin on a kit thinking you got a quality product, the first emotion is to dispell all nay sayers and somehow prove them wrong. Last thing i want to happen is a wreck/collision where car/people get hurt knowing there was past issues with the product. maybe M.F. will let me trade up cause throwing away 3900.00 bucks is a hard pill to swollow.

 

[Super-Cuda]

i here ya, and thats why its a great thing for sites like this.When you spend the coin on a kit thinking you got a quality product, the first emotion is to dispell all nay sayers and somehow prove them wrong. Last thing i want to happen is a wreck/collision where car/people get hurt knowing there was past issues with the product. maybe M.F. will let me trade up cause throwing away 3900.00 bucks is a hard pill to swollow.

That's a good idea mopar505,

If you have concerns, contact Magnum Force and give them the opportunity to respond. Let them know you are a member here and see what happens. It doesn't cost anything and hopefully you will get a favorable response. Be sure to post the results here . Hopefully this works in your favor.

 

[famous bob]

i here ya, and thats why its a great thing for sites like this.When you spend the coin on a kit thinking you got a quality product, the first emotion is to dispell all nay sayers and somehow prove them wrong. Last thing i want to happen is a wreck/collision where car/people get hurt knowing there was past issues with the product. maybe M.F. will let me trade up cause throwing away 3900.00 bucks is a hard pill to swollow.

Which kit did you get. I don`t think they make the tubular race front end any more. It is the one in question, later designs seem to be on the order of other aftermarket kits, look at their website.I am not too worried about mine , but keep an eye on it, and will probably gusset the places that have known failures on some. If I were u and have the tubular k frame, I`d gusset it before installing it , and run it .
Can u post pics on here , which kit it is ??------------I can`t , I`ve tried everything that has been suggested and pics still don`t transfer-------------

 

[loganscuda]

Ok I will be totally honest. I have a RMS setup. I cannot say it is better than torsion bar setup on my car. When I started the build 11 years ago I was planning on upgrade brakes and got a parts from 73 duster. I ran into every problem known and unknown because of lack of knowledge and wrong information when I was doing a genIII SWAP. my first mistake was reading a Mopar magazine that did a tubular K Frame and Rack upgrade. I thought ooooh this is cool. So I bought it. Finally got around to installing...... crap this CAP stuff doesn’t fit. The alignment shop could not align it. Called the company......gone, out of business. I sold all the other part I had and was stuck with a car I couldn’t even push out of the garage. Frustrated yes. So I talked to Bill Reilly about my issues and did research on the product and bought the setup. Am I happy he’ll yea I’m happy I drive this all over the country, autocross it, get groceries, crappy roads, smooth roads. Would I do it again. Probably not, With all of the Hemi swap aftermarket stuff out there to keep stock suspension I would go stock with bigger t bars. I had a /6. Lots of good info on here.

. I wrote this in the wrong thread and reposted here.

 

[mopar505]

Which kit did you get. I don`t think they make the tubular race front end any more. It is the one in question, later designs seem to be on the order of other aftermarket kits, look at their website.I am not too worried about mine , but keep an eye on it, and will probably gusset the places that have known failures on some. If I were u and have the tubular k frame, I`d gusset it before installing it , and run it .
Can u post pics on here , which kit it is ??------------I can`t , I`ve tried everything that has been suggested and pics still don`t transfer-------------

Well here is the master piece, this is the first time i have pulled everything out of the boxes since bought ( 2013 ) new. I have a email into clint @ magnum force questioning if anything needs reinforced or changed. best to do it now before **** gets mounted in the car. OH and my memory served me WRONG on the cost...... try $6400.00. With ad on's and wilwood 6 piston 13" rotors

 

[abodyjoe]

their kits look cool but man they had a bad reputation of bad welds for a while there. haven't seen anything about that in a while though. but the poor geometry has always been a problem with them.. don't think they ever fixed that part.

 

[mopar505]

their kits look cool but man they had a bad reputation of bad welds for a while there. haven't seen anything about that in a while though. but the poor geometry has always been a problem with them.. don't think they ever fixed that part.

what does the geometry affect ?? alignment issues ??

 

[abodyjoe]

yes. going down the road straight and safely.. hopefully you got a good one.

 

[loganscuda]

It looks pretty easy to assemble they did them on graveyard cars and another show in about 10 minutes with commercials

 

[dukeboy440]

what does the geometry affect ?? alignment issues ??

Not only that but bump steer, Ackerman, instant center, roll centers etc. all that and more affects handling and track, especially at highway speeds or greater.

 

[replicaracer43]

You putting that in a "B" body?