we will see?? if it gets installed,yes a B body.
Coil Over vs Torsion Bar
- Thread starter MrJLR
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we will see?? if it gets installed,yes a B body.
replicaracer43
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Ok, wasn't sure, with the sweet duster on the lift in the background! Carry on
famous bob
mopar misfit
The geometry seems ok on mine , the ride sucks tho, it is a dragrace front end tho.
famous bob
mopar misfit
Had mine up to (guessing) about 140 before letting off, handled fine.
I know a really good front end man, u have to make an appointment sometimes 6 weeks in advance !!
famous bob
mopar misfit
no way, only if fully assembled in the floor first------------take longer than that to bolt the brakes together ! LOLIt looks pretty easy to assemble they did them on graveyard cars and another show in about 10 minutes with commercials
famous bob
mopar misfit
This kit looks to have more tubes on it than mine, but mine doesn`t carry the engine , I run a motor plate, probly helps with the load not being so bad on the tubular stuff ,????
but again, yours is heavily modified from the off shelf version. Not everyone is you and there's fewer and fewer "good" front end mechanics around these days.
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that would make a difference...
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
This discussion reminds me of a passage I read in the Mopar Chassis manual... basically it said that it's almost impossible to design and build your own race car chassis and suspension with superior geometry and function compared to a factory setup. They made the example where if you removed a bunch of weight from a stock Mopar for racing, put on some racing tires, good shocks, maybe some stiffer springs, and a good alignment you'll have a car that's as good as or better than 95% of the other cars on the track. Chrysler engineers spent serious time and money developing that suspension back in the day and you'd basically have to be a professional custom racing chassis builder to make something better. BUT that was written about 25 years ago, things surely have changed in the aftermarket but the factory Mopar suspension is still hard to beat once you correct the minor flaws: overly soft factory spring rates, flimsy upper control arms, not enough caster, sub-par weld quality on the k-members... really not that difficult or expensive to fix if you're handy.
I personally would only consider a coilover front end if A) I was swapping in an engine and had NO header clearance or B) I was building a full-on 10/10ths road-race machine to compete in the higher classes (and SOMEHOW reached a limit with T-bars). Aside from those two scenarios the Mopar torsion bar suspension has more potential than I think I'll ever use.
I personally would only consider a coilover front end if A) I was swapping in an engine and had NO header clearance or B) I was building a full-on 10/10ths road-race machine to compete in the higher classes (and SOMEHOW reached a limit with T-bars). Aside from those two scenarios the Mopar torsion bar suspension has more potential than I think I'll ever use.
Dave70Duster
Member
replicaracer43
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That's interesting, I had a 73 dart with a 440, tti 2" chassis headers, and factory K frame. Everything fit great.
The Mopar front suspension was designed as part of the unibody package of the Mopar. It places a lot of the stress under the firewall area, away from the front end. Whether the front end can withstand the added stresses of having all the duty of supporting the front half of the car is a question for an engineer; which I am not. But I would be one to not even think of taking that chance. The fact is that may use the coil over systems. And I know that they are not all the same. How much research was put into each of these systems is another matter to consider. What roads you drive on, how often you drive, and any number of other parameters will enter the picture, as to how long your vehicle will remain safe, structurally sound and operable is a question that would be very difficult to answer. It is not a matter of conjecture, however, that the fact is - and this is a big caveat ... w/o adding additional support to the front engine area unibody - the car's structure will become fundamentally fatigued using the coil overs. Others have commented on how wonderful these systems make the car feel. But, even if that is true, I would stay away - unless, as stated above, you add support to the front unibody. A well set up (good parts and good alignment) front T-bar suspension works very well.
~Bill
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
This is just a thought but I would imagine with subframe connectors, a bit of reinforcement around the K-frame mounting area, particularly the radiator support, and some "down-bars" going from the firewall to the front frame rails, chassis/"frame" fatigue shouldn't be a huge issue... Anyone have high miles on their coilover A-body riding on rough roads to confirm? lol
Yeah, well, that's the kind of thing I was referring to; but exactly what to do I have no clue, other than to look at the cars set up for rallies and other types of racing, and speak with those who have set them up. If I were ever thinking of doing such a thing I'd do a lot of homework on it first.
loganscuda
This/These
I have about 30,0000 on my coil over. Driven on rough roads and gravel. As said before if to do it again I would go t bar. But some have been track and road tested there are plenty of racers using them doing wheelies and that is a lot more stress on a coil over than a rough road and have heard no complaints.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
Good to know, and if it's the car in your avatar you're referring to then props to you for driving it like it's meant to be driven! Small pic but it looks a beautiful Barracuda you have. My Duster is somewhat ratty with original paint and I still get apprehensive about driving it sometimes, mostly due to insane inattentive drivers on the roads ugh.
Well, a competent engineer would really have to weigh in to provide details on stresses and loads, metal fatigue details and all kinds of other things. You can be that they did this at the factory at the time. They might well have built into the unibody enough added strength. But without knowing that, I would not want to risk it. I liken it to going to tearing out a wall before knowing if it is a load bearing wall or not. House might stay up for a decade, and then suddenly just fail.
Yeah you must live in NY, NJ or CA ... like I do.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
Ask @GMachineDartGT He runs torsion bars and connectors and go knows what iother stiffners and he had chassis cracks that he fixed recently. He had the pics posted on Facebook a while back not sure if he posts them here or not.
So apparently even that great stock engineering cracks the chassis.
So apparently even that great stock engineering cracks the chassis.
replicaracer43
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I'd say that would have as much to do with the car being 45 years old as anything.
All the more reason not to add more stress to it. Race cars are designed differently than jeeps, than pickup trucks, than street sedans. If you want to make something something that it was not designed to do, you have to do the homework.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
So even heavier torsion bars add too much stress is what you are saying. Guess we will just all have to deal with weak torsion bar cars to be safe.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
But if the car happened to have coil overs on it then that would have been the cause huh.
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Nope not what I'm saying. 1. The cars were made for T-bars. 2. They might be okay with coil overs, then again they might no over the long haul; 3. Any car that is that old (read: used) is not like a new car; 4. especially if it is driven hard; 5. I was advising the OP, not someone who is not asking the question. edit [ I know you were replying to someone else, but the other poster was saying something similar 'sounding' to what I was posting]
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
Then using larger bars and lower profile tires then these cars were engineered for can’t be good for the car either. Those bigger bars are gonna cause more stress on the initbody then the undersized ones these cars were designed for. And those low profile tires absorb a lot less of that shock then those big sidewall 14 inches.
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