67CBodyGuy
Well-Known Member
Is this the correct position to place the distributor (after it was removed) so at least the engine starts / runs and from there I can set the correct position with timing gun?
Correct initial position for distributor
- Thread starter 67CBodyGuy
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Not quite. "By the book" The rotor should point to the very front intake manifold bolt on the driver's side when the engine is at TDC on #1. Of course, you can put #1 anywhere but that's the correct way in the service manual. I prefer that way, because you end up with all the room you can get in regards to moving the distributor to set timing.
Like RRR said #1 can be anywhere as long firing order is correct. In that pic, technically #1 should be in between where #1 & 2 is.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
The deal is the distributor drive gear (intermediate shaft) may or may not be in "right" but it does not matter.
Pull no1 plug. Bump the engine with a finger in the no1 hole until you BEGIN to feel compression. Now watch the marks coming up, and bump/ wrench the engine NOT to TDC but rather where you want initial timing, AKA say, 12BTC on the marks.
Now drop the dist in, and if the rotor is nowhere near the diagram, turn it around. It may or may not be "right" due to the gear I mentioned, or because some distributors have different rotor orientaton re: the drive tang. Does not matter.
Now rotate the dist retarded (CW) and slowly bring it back advanced (CCW) until either the points open, or the breakerless reluctor tip is centered in the pickup coil. Now snug the bolt down "a little bit" so it stays there but hopefully you can still move it.
Now relate the rotor to whichever plug tower in the cap that the rotor tip is approaching going CW and drop the no1 wire in that hole.
It should start just like that
Once you learn this, you can start the thing right up as if it had been parked the night before
Pull no1 plug. Bump the engine with a finger in the no1 hole until you BEGIN to feel compression. Now watch the marks coming up, and bump/ wrench the engine NOT to TDC but rather where you want initial timing, AKA say, 12BTC on the marks.
Now drop the dist in, and if the rotor is nowhere near the diagram, turn it around. It may or may not be "right" due to the gear I mentioned, or because some distributors have different rotor orientaton re: the drive tang. Does not matter.
Now rotate the dist retarded (CW) and slowly bring it back advanced (CCW) until either the points open, or the breakerless reluctor tip is centered in the pickup coil. Now snug the bolt down "a little bit" so it stays there but hopefully you can still move it.
Now relate the rotor to whichever plug tower in the cap that the rotor tip is approaching going CW and drop the no1 wire in that hole.
It should start just like that
Once you learn this, you can start the thing right up as if it had been parked the night before
67CBodyGuy
Well-Known Member
Well this is what I'm seeing, looks to be what you guys are talking about:
Crank is at exactly TDC. Points look to be open here, max opening maybe.
I've written down some numbers from the distributor internal weights, I'd like to know what sort of curve this distributor has, I'll post a new thread on it.
Crank is at exactly TDC. Points look to be open here, max opening maybe.
I've written down some numbers from the distributor internal weights, I'd like to know what sort of curve this distributor has, I'll post a new thread on it.
I'd say that's "close enough".
Rapid Robert
Well-Known Member
[/quote] Crank is at exactly TDC. Points look to be open here, max opening maybe. [/QUOTE] I'm assuming you are going to back it up to 12 or more BTDC?
I'm pretty sure the slot in the Distributor Drive gear should point at the front Intake Manifold Bolt (drivers side) with your piston at TDC. The Rotor will point straight ahead - like your Pic shows
67CBodyGuy
Well-Known Member
So on the cap, the tower for #1 should be exactly as shown in the diagram, but take the cap off and the rotor is pointed not straight ahead but is pointed at the physical #1 cylinder like my ruler is indicating?
Go with what the guys explained above, that generic picture technically would have the advance/timing a bunch retarded.
Put your cap on and see how everything lines up. As mentioned previously, once you know tdc is good/true, then go to 12-15* BTDC on balancer and that's when rotor should point at #1 ON CAP
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
The POINTS (or the breakerless pickup) IS WHAT FIRES and not the rotor. That is why I suggest NOT putting the marks on TDC. Instead, put the the balancer on the marks where you want timing. NOW with what you have there, rotate the dist CW (retarded) which will close the points. Now rotate slowly CCW (advanced) until the points just open. You can do that with a test light (ignition on) or with an ohmeter (ignition off)
You can also leave it as is and (thanks, Crackedback) check the timing with a light "on the starter"
Is OP's wiring diagram and firing order correct for all 318 engines regardless of use? A neighbor was helping me with tuneup and while swapping in new plugs and wires, said the way he found it did not match the wiring diagram and firing order he has. He did not say what he thinks it is or how it differed. But he rigged it up the same way he found it and it starts and runs.
But if it should be as shown, he and I will go over it again with OP's diagram and see how it differs.....if any......then make a correction if it looks off, and see where it goes.
But first wanted to verify there is only one right way to rig it.
But if it should be as shown, he and I will go over it again with OP's diagram and see how it differs.....if any......then make a correction if it looks off, and see where it goes.
But first wanted to verify there is only one right way to rig it.
All the LA's should be the same I believe. Haven't seen a different orientation on any of the LA small blocks, 273-360 except for may be reverse rotation marine engine.
18436572 is firing order, unless marine or industrial, then the firing order MAY be different.
67CBodyGuy
Well-Known Member
With the distributor rotated such that towers 1 and 8 were parallel to the front (or back) of the engine (or firewall) I started the engine. First time in about 2.5 months since I parked the car and swapped out the front stub.
The engine started and ran, after it came up to temperature and settled down to idle a timing gun said I was at 5 degreed BTDC.
The diagram in post #1 shows tower 1 positioned as being as far towards the front of the engine as possible. I figure that would put the timing at somewhere way after TDC, maybe 15 degrees or more. I then rotated the distributor slightly CCW to put 8 a little closer to the front than 1, and got 10 degrees BTDC.
I'll play with that a little more, I might have a more solid vacuum (18) at 5 vs 10. I'm running el-cheapo 87 octane Pioneer-brand gas, possibly with up to 10% ethanol. The car has had practically no driving for the past 25 years, so I'm wondering what is the best timing setup for the garbage gas we (I) have today.
I suspect I might have a weak spark, I had to manipulate the pickup of the inductive timing gun I was using to get a some-what consistent strobe going. Or maybe the points gap isin't set right.
I'm running Champ RN14YC, my plug wires are low resistance (500 ohms per foot). I do have a new set of N12YC (non-resistor) that I might try at some point.
My ballast resistor measures .82 ohms, could be anywhere from .74 to .87 ohms. It's an old coil, primary and secondary resistances are to spec.
Now that the engine runs and I'm re-filling the 727 with ATF+4 ($75 for 5 liter jug!) I have to see why my new copper/nickel trans cooler lines are leaking at the trans (but not the rad). I hate tube flaring - even when it looks great they still leak for me...
The engine started and ran, after it came up to temperature and settled down to idle a timing gun said I was at 5 degreed BTDC.
The diagram in post #1 shows tower 1 positioned as being as far towards the front of the engine as possible. I figure that would put the timing at somewhere way after TDC, maybe 15 degrees or more. I then rotated the distributor slightly CCW to put 8 a little closer to the front than 1, and got 10 degrees BTDC.
I'll play with that a little more, I might have a more solid vacuum (18) at 5 vs 10. I'm running el-cheapo 87 octane Pioneer-brand gas, possibly with up to 10% ethanol. The car has had practically no driving for the past 25 years, so I'm wondering what is the best timing setup for the garbage gas we (I) have today.
I suspect I might have a weak spark, I had to manipulate the pickup of the inductive timing gun I was using to get a some-what consistent strobe going. Or maybe the points gap isin't set right.
I'm running Champ RN14YC, my plug wires are low resistance (500 ohms per foot). I do have a new set of N12YC (non-resistor) that I might try at some point.
My ballast resistor measures .82 ohms, could be anywhere from .74 to .87 ohms. It's an old coil, primary and secondary resistances are to spec.
Now that the engine runs and I'm re-filling the 727 with ATF+4 ($75 for 5 liter jug!) I have to see why my new copper/nickel trans cooler lines are leaking at the trans (but not the rad). I hate tube flaring - even when it looks great they still leak for me...
So the engine in question is on a piece of farm equipment. Something I would consider industrial. So how would a guy know what it is supposed to be? Or if it runs, just let it be?
Timing still set to run off #1?
I see no reason why a farm equipment engine would be any different unless for some reason it was built for reverse rotation. Do you know how to static time an engine?
Firing order stamped on intake? Rotate crank clockwise, rotor should turn cw also. If rotor turns ccw then I don't know lol. Google mopar marine/industrial firing order if need be
I hope the OP got his question answered because we can get sidetracked in a real hurry working on a haybine.
Yall are makin this way harder than it should be. Look at my original answer. If the ROTOR points to the #1 driver's side front most intake bolt and he gets #1 on the cap point straight forward, he will likely not even have to move the distributor to time it, or move it VERY little, because the rotor will be in the ADVANCED position. I swear to GAWD some of yall love to make things so much more complicated than they are. Ridiculous.
rebelcaptain
Active Member
That position of the rotor can all also be changed by moving the position of the drive gear. [Lift it up, turn it and drop into different position] Factory has the slot pointed towards #1 cylinder. Obviously, that is where the rotor should point when that cylinder is at TDC. Attachment of the wires has to be in the correct firing order on the cap. However, can be anywhere. [Would have to turn the distributer to compensate]
67CBodyGuy
Well-Known Member
I said above that the engine started up and ran with the distributor in the position I described in the photos on post #5.
But before it started I had to figure out why I initially had no spark. This was the reason:
The screw with the square back was rotated, a corner was touching the mounting plate. It was like the points were always closed. The clear plastic retainer tabs are somewhat flimsy. These are new points I bought from Rock last year, naturally they were very inexpensive. Maybe there are others that are built better, with this scenario in mind. But how to know?
BTW, is there a way to check or to know if the rotor cam lobes are worn or out of spec?
But before it started I had to figure out why I initially had no spark. This was the reason:
The screw with the square back was rotated, a corner was touching the mounting plate. It was like the points were always closed. The clear plastic retainer tabs are somewhat flimsy. These are new points I bought from Rock last year, naturally they were very inexpensive. Maybe there are others that are built better, with this scenario in mind. But how to know?
BTW, is there a way to check or to know if the rotor cam lobes are worn or out of spec?
It is beyond extremely rare for the distributor cam to wear, since the rubbing block is much softer. You do need to put some type of a good high temp grease on the cam, though. Don't glob it on, just a thin film.
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