Difficult to get A833 four speed into reverse

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Duster_Dean

Duster_Dean

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Hi everone,
When I purchased my 1975 Duster, it had a transplanted 1970 383, 4 speed and rear from a 1970(?) Road Runner complete with the pistol grip shifter. The shifter was never meant for an A body or for a bench seat.
I swapped it out for the correct shifter and white ball handle (thanks Brewers).
Now I cannot 'twist' the shifter while attempting to shift into reverse.
With the pistol grip I would sort of twist the handle to the left (counter clockwise) while pointing / pushing towards the pedals to get it into reverse - worked fine.
The correct handle make this soooo much more difficult that it takes several cuss ridden attempts. It's frickin hard to find reverse now. I cannot twist the shifter now like I could the pistol grip (different shape and geometery).
It's so bad that I now find myself parking in spots that won't require me to reverse. Thank goodness for the reverse light - saved me from launching through the garage!

Are there any adjustments to the shifter rods or other parts that would make finding / shifting into reverse easier?
Nothing other than the bayonet style shifter swap was changed. Has anyone found a trick or method to get deal with this?

TIA for any guidence you may have.
Dean
 
Did you change just the shifter handle? The "shifter" is the mechanical box bolted to the side of the trans, did you change that also?

The "twist" may be compensating for a loose shifter or misadjustement.

Yes it is adjustable. And need to check for loose or worn parts and linkage.
 
He says he has a 1970 road runner trans. There is no pushing down with that or any 1960's factory mopar shifter.
 
After the shifter is thru the gate, and the the other levers are properly detented in Neutral;;
There are three possibilities;

1) a failure to depress the clutch pedal far enough, or
2) a dragging clutch, or
3) a faulty interlock system

As for #1
push the seat closer to the pedal and try again. If your foot ends up on the floor, then you have the WRONG CLUTCH-PEDAL in your car. The six cylinder pedal has a different ratio than the V8 one. This is due to the two different sized clutches being used. The six-cylinder pedal can be modified but cutting, splicing, and welding is required.

As for #2
there are a couple of possibilities;
insufficient clutch departure, or a bent clutch disk, or the disc is sticking on the splines, or a faulty PP, or the centerline of the trans is not on the same centerline as is the crank.

as for #3
The interlock consists of the shift lever in the box that moves the idler, AND the reverse lever in the cover. These two are designed to make it impossible to select a forward gear with the trans still in reverse. They are a really really close-clearance fit. To make the clearance consistent, holding the cover to the trans in the exact right position is paramount, and so, holding the cover onto the box are supposed to be TWO bolts with extra long shanks, that act as dowels.
As the trans may have been taken apart many times in the past 55 years, they may not be there anymore, or they could be in another location. If the cover falls down during attachment, the clearance can become less than zero, and then you get into the situation that you describe. So then, your first step to finding a solution is to go see if those two long-shank bolts are where they belong. They should be on the vertical sides about half way between top and bottom, one on each side. Then, loosen all the bolts, jam the cover up as hard as you can, hold the cover there while tightening those two bolts. Then, engine not running, put the stick into the Reverse gate, and see how the shifter works. Move it in and out several times.
If the shifter seems to go in but then hangs up, likely the gears are butting together, due to the driveshaft not turning; just step on the clutch,which will allow the cluster to turn a hair, and try again.
The stick should snick in an out with an easy push, and a satisfying sound. If it does, yur good to go, finish tightening the bolts.

But if it still hangs up
disconnect the reverse shift rod from off the trans, and try to manually engage reverse from under the car. If it now goes, then your shifter is at fault.
But if it still won't go;
then the cover and reverse lever are NOT matched. The lever in the trans comes in a long and a short interlock section. I have never run into this, so I'm remembering this from 45 years ago when I was a manual transmission rebuilder. I forget how they were marked, so you will need a factory repair manual. What I think I remember might be that they are stamped with letters of the alphbet, Like A or B
But this I know, you cannot change that lever with the cluster still in the box .
However, you can cheat.
Find the two long-shank bolts and take them out.
loosen all the rest. Now jam that cover up as high as it will go and tighten a few bolts, then try shifting it. If the lever now goes in, tighten all the remaining bolts, Bag the long shankers, and install two standard bolts. Now yur all set until the next time the cover comes off. Save the bolts.
The proper procedure is
to change that internal lever, but the trans would have to come down, AND
IDK/you don't know, perhaps the trans already has the short interlock, so taking the trans down would be a waste of time. If this situation presents itself, you might think to machine the lever that is in the cover.
Like I said, I have never run into this situation. Nontheless, it is a possibility all these decades later.
Ok I'm all out of words
Happy HotRodding
 
Last edited:
Same as AJ,'s last 2 paragraphs, - I loosened side cover bolts slightly, tapped the back of cover up, re-tightened bolts, issue gone .
Next wouldda been removing the shouldered bolts .
Good luck .
 
Kendog 170 said:
Do you have slop in the linkage? Did you use a Pin to align linkage to shifter?
https://www.holley.com/blog/post/how_to_adjust_a_hurst_competition_plus_four-speed_shifter/
Click to expand...

413 said:
Did you change just the shifter handle? The "shifter" is the mechanical box bolted to the side of the trans, did you change that also?

The "twist" may be compensating for a loose shifter or misadjustement.

Yes it is adjustable. And need to check for loose or worn parts and linkage.
Click to expand...
I did not touch any linkage so it is the same as before I changed the 'handle'. I evidently mis-spoke in the original post. I just changed the handle. Bayonet pistol out - correct handle in.
I guess I'll need to locate someone in my area that is knowledgable in adjusting and setting the 'shifter' and linkage.
 
Duster_Dean said:
That is what I was told. Is that an impossibilty?
Click to expand...
Not sure if it's impossible but the A body 833 trans is much shorter and the shifter location is closer the main body of the trans. The B&E body trans shifter location would be in the rear tailstock. Someone could have swapped out the tailshaft and that's the only way I'm aware of this transplant working ?
 
AJ/FormS said:
After the shifter is thru the gate, and the the other levers are properly detented in Neutral;;
There are three possibilities;

1) a failure to depress the clutch pedal far enough, or
2) a dragging clutch, or
3) a faulty interlock system

As for #1
push the seat closer to the pedal and try again. If your foot ends up on the floor, then you have the WRONG CLUTCH-PEDAL in your car. The six cylinder pedal has a different ratio than the V8 one. This is due to the two different sized clutches being used. The six-cylinder pedal can be modified but cutting, splicing, and welding is required.

As for #2
there are a couple of possibilities;
insufficient clutch departure, or a bent clutch disk, or the disc is sticking on the splines, or a faulty PP, or the centerline of the trans is not on the same centerline as is the crank.

as for #3
The interlock consists of the shift lever in the box that moves the idler, AND the reverse lever in the cover. These two are designed to make it impossible to select a forward gear with the trans still in reverse. They are a really really close-clearance fit. To make the clearance consistent, holding the cover to the trans in the exact right position is paramount, and so, holding the cover onto the box are supposed to be TWO bolts with extra long shanks, that act as dowels.
As the trans may have been taken apart many times in the past 55 years, they may not be there anymore, or they could be in another location. If the cover falls down during attachment, the clearance can become less than zero, and then you get into the situation that you describe. So then, your first step to finding a solution is to go see if those two long-shank bolts are where they belong. They should be on the vertical sides about half way between top and bottom, one on each side. Then, loosen all the bolts, jam the cover up as hard as you can, hold the cover there while tightening those two bolts. Then, engine not running, put the stick into the Reverse gate, and see how the shifter works. Move it in and out several times.
If the shifter seems to go in but then hangs up, likely the gears are butting together, due to the driveshaft not turning; just step on the clutch,which will allow the cluster to turn a hair, and try again.
The stick should snick in an out with an easy push, and a satisfying sound. If it does, yur good to go, finish tightening the bolts.

But if it still hangs up
disconnect the reverse shift rod from off the trans, and try to manually engage reverse from under the car. If it now goes, then your shifter is at fault.
But if it still won't go;
then the cover and reverse lever are NOT matched. The lever in the trans comes in a long and a short interlock section. I have never run into this, so I'm remembering this from 45 years ago when I was a manual transmission rebuilder. I forget how they were marked, so you will need a factory repair manual. What I think I remember might be that they are stamped with letters of the alphbet, Like A or B
But this I know, you cannot change that lever with the cluster still in the box .
However, you can cheat.
Find the two long-shank bolts and take them out.
loosen all the rest. Now jam that cover up as high as it will go and tighten a few bolts, then try shifting it. If the lever now goes in, tighten all the remaining bolts, Bag the long shankers, and install two standard bolts. Now yur all set until the next time the cover comes off. Save the bolts.
The proper procedure is
to change that internal lever, but the trans would have to come down, AND
IDK/you don't know, perhaps the trans already has the short interlock, so taking the trans down would be a waste of time. If this situation presents itself, you might think to machine the lever that is in the cover.
Like I said, I have never run into this situation. Nontheless, it is a possibility all these decades later.
Ok I'm all out of words
Happy HotRodding
Click to expand...
AJ, thanls fo all the information. I believe possibilities 1 and 2 are not the issue (I could be wrong).

My son adjusted the clutch with me as I prefer the clutch to disengage at the top of the throw so the clutch disengages without going to the floor (short guy here), while insuring the clutch is fully engaged when pedal is not depressed. While running through the gears under normal loads the shifts are smooth, quiet, full engagement and no grinding, gear hunting or slippage in the clutch.

Regarding #3, my health prevents me from getting to the area and my lack of any knowledge of auto manual transmissions makes performing the checks and task a non-starter for me. I see I will have to locate a local transmission guy/gal experienced in these old A833 four speeds to sort this out.

In the meantime I will play with this some more to see if I can find the 'sweet spot' in getting it into reverse. It was not difficult with the pistol shift once the previous owner told me the 'trick' about twisting and pointing the handle. Yes, I can see that there may be something incorrect / worn / mis-adjusted so I'll find a local expert.

Others mentioned 'Hurst Competition' shifter. I have no idea what the shifter mechanism is, be it stock, Hurst or other.
 
Bennoel 10 said:
Not sure if it's impossible but the A body 833 trans is much shorter and the shifter location is closer the main body of the trans. The B&E body trans shifter location would be in the rear tailstock. Someone could have swapped out the tailshaft and that's the only way I'm aware of this transplant working ?
Click to expand...
Bennoel 10, well with over 50% of this car NOT being stock, anything is possibly. It's evident I'll need some professional help in 'tuning up' the shifter and likage since it's beyond my capabilities. I do know when I'm out of my element!
 
Inertia said:
Same as AJ,'s last 2 paragraphs, - I loosened side cover bolts slightly, tapped the back of cover up, re-tightened bolts, issue gone .
Next wouldda been removing the shouldered bolts .
Good luck .
Click to expand...
Inertia, This is something my son could do for me (he's a heavy equipment mechanic). Since this is an easier task, I'll have him give it a try before locating a local experienced shop.
 
Thank you to everyone who replied.
From what I am hearing this may be a bigger issue than I'd hoped for. I'll be searching for a local expert on these transmissions to help sort it out, armed with your feedback.
Thanks again for all the guidence!
 
The B and E 4 speed trans has 2 shifter mounts points cast into the tailhousing.
B uses the front
E uses the rear
 
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