Does This Debunk the "Coolant Can Flow Through the Radiator Too Fast" Idea???

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First rusty I agree with you. Second how does the thermostat stop a motor from running to cold. It opens at a predetermined temperature and then controls how much coolant goes thru the motor to keep that temp. There is no two ways about it. Face it. It all has to work together to get the job done. With all the research done at the manufacturing plants don't you think the engineers used the right formulas to figure these things out. If you run without a thermostat chances are you will not pull enough heat out of the block causing the oil to run too hot and burn up your bearings and cam. If your car runs to cool what happens to your oil it heats up and breaks down.
It stops it from running too cool because it acts as a small restriction. Without that, there would be too much flow and the engine would run too cool.

Here is the main ball of wax with all of this. Unless you have a radiator that is capable or more than capable of shedding the heat generated by your given combination, you will very likely be doing other "incorrect" things to get the engine to run cool. This one reason in itself is why most people have difficulty. They simply do not choose a radiator with enough heat shedding capability.
 
It stops it from running too cool because it acts as a small restriction. Without that, there would be too much flow and the engine would run too cool.

Here is the main ball of wax with all of this. Unless you have a radiator that is capable or more than capable of shedding the heat generated by your given combination, you will very likely be doing other "incorrect" things to get the engine to run cool. This one reason in itself is why most people have difficulty. They simply do not choose a radiator with enough heat shedding capability.

Exactly. And you can tell the system isn’t capable of cooling the engine by how far above thermostat opening the engine operates at.

If you have a 160 thermostat and the engine is running at 185 you need to work on the rest of the system.
 
Exactly. And you can tell the system isn’t capable of cooling the engine by how far above thermostat opening the engine operates at.

If you have a 160 thermostat and the engine is running at 185 you need to work on the rest of the system.
Mine does, but the only time it does is after being cut off. lol
 
The t'stat performs two functions:
[1] It maintains a minimum operating temp for the engine.
[2] It creates pressure in the coolant in the block to suppress nucleate boiling: coolant boiling in hot spots like near exh valves, where boiling creates air bubbles. Air is a very poor conductor of heat, so any bubbles should be reduced or preferably eliminated. That is what the stat does.

If you measure all the coolant hole areas of the head gaskets, you will find the combined area greatly exceeds the flow area of the stat. The stat area is deliberately smaller to create the pressure point. If you do not use a stat, you should use a washer of the same area.
 
Thats what I was trying to say all along. I guess I just didn't use the right words.
 
I do this with any new driver/project. Fire it up and let it just sit and idle for 15 or 20 minutes or so. I have a real temp mechanical gauge. Check temp., now drive it down the road 10 miles and watch the gauge. I have done with all kinds of old Mopars and such, with all kinds of stats and without stats. If no stat yea I can add one, but if it runs too hot, I say 95% of the time, its not the stat! or lack of one.

People always ask, why does my old car run hot???? How many times is because the engine block was full of rust and c*** and thus all that got into the radiator.

Whats wrong with my car. Runs like c***. Ever clean the gas tank and filter and thus carb??
 
People always ask, why does my old car run hot???? How many times is because the engine block was full of rust and c*** and thus all that got into the radiator.

Whats wrong with my car. Runs like c***. Ever clean the gas tank and filter and thus carb??
I’m afraid this might be an issue with mine. I’m on my second time flushing with garden hose before installing the new rad. I flush but it will sit a week (making more rust) while waiting for parts. I’ll flush again and hook it up. See where I’m at.
 
Folks often forget to flush the heater, or forget to open the "hot valve" while flushing, to blast the crap outta there too .
 
I’m afraid this might be an issue with mine. I’m on my second time flushing with garden hose before installing the new rad. I flush but it will sit a week (making more rust) while waiting for parts. I’ll flush again and hook it up. See where I’m at.
A guy gave me a receipe (homebrew with a caustic acid solution) then neurtalized. It worked for me on an old slant that really needed it. I was scared!!
Surface rust is one thjng, scale is another.

A heat gun aimed all over the radiator when hot will show the spots not doing their job. Gun at HF is cheap. I am cheap!
 
Folks often forget to flush the heater, or forget to open the "hot valve" while flushing, to blast the crap outta there too .
I used the heater hose closest to the front of the water pump and opened the valve (I think) until coolant came out the bottom rad hose. I use the yellow stuff and it looked a bit I’ll coming out. I ran it until clear. I’ll repeat before final fill. Waiting on connectors for fans. I have to pull the rad to do so….its only been mounted… never filled. (That’s what she……)

Probably Monday at this point.

Very excited to see if there is an improvement.
 
I think that the idea that too fast flow through the radiator causes overheat comes from an entry in a book that has been around in its current form since the mid 90s
updated and added to, new pictures, new corporate names since then, but the same old text. Its a Good Read

Larry Shepherd in his how to build mopar small block engines book goes into details about how to reduce pump speed for high rpm engines, stating that for ideal cooling the pump must run at nearer to standard speeds, or you will overheat when you convert your small block into High rpm race engine. Gives part numbers etc to get ideal pulley gearing for RPM range, doesn't explain why, just states that all that science is for cooling system experts. This prompts the idea that too fast is bad, seems to imply that its the flow speed of the coolant through the system that the problem, by the way the subject is covered.

I took this book and this section at its word and assumed speed of flow was the issue not something else.... i presume others did as well, and i think sections of that book were lifted from previously published articles, so the ideas around at least slowing the pump had been around for a good while. The explanation as to "Why" you slow the pump was lacking

It did not explain that a pump that produces a higher pressure in the system could be a problem if the pressure exceeds that of the cap

It did not explain that a pump that is spinning faster than it was designed to, might cause cavitation or may indeed become completely inefficient and actually pump less causing very little flow and an overheat via a different route.

some explanation as to why, in articles that potentially have been around since the 70s or 80s may have helped us all....

In a cooling system where the pressure vented filler cap is positioned at the point in the system with the highest pressure. Basically it sits directly after a hot cylinder head which is directly after the high pressure output of the pump. standard pump, standard rpm, standard fan and radiator with a standard cap and good tune...no problem...... BUT if you change things enough,
A situation could exist where the heat flow into the coolant and the action of the water pump can conspire together to produce a pressure higher than the cap vent pressure, gonna be linked to load, rpm, and ambient temperature. That venting may just be of vapour but over a number of journeys your coolant level can slowly decrease to the point where you properly overheat. so when a guy puts in a high flow/high volume pump or "pumps the coolant faster" i.e raises the pressure differential between inlet and outlet of the pump, the first indication of an issue is a full on "steaming overheat" and maybe not on the hottest day, or the day you sat in traffic for 45 minutes, because the overheat has been caused by the slow loss of coolant over a good number of previous trips out, due to the slight lifting of the vent in the cap when engine heat, and pumping action of the water pump, cause the pressure in the top tank to flutter around the cap vent pressure level often leaving little or no evidence.

you could combat this with a no loss system and a return cap but keep an eye out for your bottle getting unduly pressurized... it would be a band aid not a solution to your problem

modern radiators have their filler cap/plastic bottle plumbed in to the lower pressure side of the system before the entry into the water pump at the colder end of the radiator....
probably for good reason. your modern car will be like this

I learned this stuff the last time we had a row about this

I may still be wrong, i was last time..... but i felt i'd learned enough about the errors in my previously held view, to have a newer different view of the situation :)


Dave
 
My latest band aid includes a 1" difference from water pump pulley to crank pulley. Im not sure what the stock difference is.

flowcooler water pump.

24.5" 2 core with 1" tubes ....aluminum.

two 12" electric fans (3400 cfm)

383 in a barracuda (AC not hooked up yet but has a big azz condensor in front of rad) 250/250@50 somewhat of a cam. 3:23 diff.

Ive dropped my temps to 187* with a 180 thermostat.

In the true spirit of Daves post, I am not revving the poop out of the BB more than giving it a shakedown at this point. Sniper EFI tuning at this point. With the 3:23s (that may go to 3:55s) its not seeing high RPMs at this point as its a newer build and Im sorting out bugs.

Hope this is relevent to thread.
 
I've preached it and preached it to deaf ears. you need to get the coolant out of the engine and into the radiator as quickly as possible. People simply will not believe it.
So it can slow down to let the heat radiate into the fins.
 
It doesn't need to slow down.

Exactly. The ONLY time you slow the pump down when your RPM is so high you actually over speed the pump.

You’d have to do the math to know what that speed is but if you are 10% over and you shift at 8k you’d have pump/fan speed of 8800.

I don’t know if that is over speeding the pump/fan but it could be.

Plus you might have a hard time keeping the belt on at that speed.
 
If the cooling system has the capacity to shed enuff heat, the thermostat is introduced to slow flow to get the the temp up to the desired running/heater temp.
 
It doesn't need to slow down.
Oh yes it does, they can crow all the want with their synopsis but I had first hand knowledge their idea holds no ‘water’ pun intended. REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE from 1968 in a 62 Chevy 283 wagon. It takes time to transfer heat, it’s not instantaneous. Does your coffee cool down fast in a thermos bottle? How about a one row vs 4 row radiator? Same amount of water but the 4 row has more surface area to dissipate the heat into the air. Time
 
If the cooling system has the capacity to shed enuff heat, the thermostat is introduced to slow flow to get the the temp up to the desired running/heater temp.
It’s a bleeder valve, to keep temp at the desired engine efficiency level, remember an engine is a heat pump.
 
Oh yes it does, they can crow all the want with their synopsis but I had first hand knowledge their idea holds no ‘water’ pun intended. REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE from 1968 in a 62 Chevy 283 wagon. It takes time to transfer heat, it’s not instantaneous. Does your coffee cool down fast in a thermos bottle? How about a one row vs 4 row radiator? Same amount of water but the 4 row has more surface area to dissipate the heat into the air. Time


You are so wrong it’s not funny. The PROOF is in the science.

Slowing coolant flow to increase cooling is like shitting your pants and changing your shirt.

Oh yes it does, they can crow all the want with their synopsis but I had first hand knowledge their idea holds no ‘water’ pun intended. REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE from 1968 in a 62 Chevy 283 wagon. It takes time to transfer heat, it’s not instantaneous. Does your coffee cool down fast in a thermos bottle? How about a one row vs 4 row radiator? Same amount of water
 
You are so wrong it’s not funny. The PROOF is in the science.

Slowing coolant flow to increase cooling is like shutting your
BS, you have bad science, my brother has an engineering degree in thermodynamics. Do you know there is no such thing as cold? There’s only heat, it has to dissipate through a medium, it doesn’t just disappear. If you have an insulated container with one 5” rod sticking out it won’t cool too fast will it?
It takes TIME for heat to transfer from one object to another.
 
BS, you have bad science, my brother has an engineering degree in thermodynamics. Do you know there is no such thing as cold? There’s only heat, it has to dissipate through a medium, it doesn’t just disappear. If you have an insulated container with one 5” rod sticking out it won’t cool too fast will it?
It takes TIME for heat to transfer from one object to another.

Who cares what your brother is? If your brother thinks **** like that he’s as wrong as you are.
 
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